Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Madimorga

You don't get it.  The reason I prefer a monthly sub is to keep other people's wallets out of my MMOs. 

 

Never happen my friend. As much as you want it, any sub-based game you'll have the third party gold sellers and PL services.

Just because it is 'illegal' to the game company (and that's a big maybe) it'll never stop happening. So all of your venting and preaching is about Anet doing it themselves and getting some of that cash because there will still be third party sites selling gold.

All of your examples are useless because it'll get done one way or the other. The only issue here is the legality of it.

All of your posts could have been summed up by one single line..."Why did Anet lower itself, in my eyes, by becoming a gold seller themselves?"

THEN, you could have a debate on that, calling in the morality police, the ethics committee on gaming, or even the president of Anet...what have you.

 

I know other MMO companies tolerate the hell out of RMT, banning sellers but not buyers, but it's partly because of that sub they want to keep getting.  I was so hoping ANet/NCSoft would take a tougher stance on it because they don't charge a sub.

You're right, I'm outraged.  Anet doesn't belong in the gold farming business.  Take the gems to gold crap out, I'll put up with the rest, even though it's definitely pay for power, if not pay to win.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Madimorga

You don't get it.  The reason I prefer a monthly sub is to keep other people's wallets out of my MMOs. 

 

Never happen my friend. As much as you want it, any sub-based game you'll have the third party gold sellers and PL services.

Just because it is 'illegal' to the game company (and that's a big maybe) it'll never stop happening. So all of your venting and preaching is about Anet doing it themselves and getting some of that cash because there will still be third party sites selling gold.

All of your examples are useless because it'll get done one way or the other. The only issue here is the legality of it.

All of your posts could have been summed up by one single line..."Why did Anet lower itself, in my eyes, by becoming a gold seller themselves?"

THEN, you could have a debate on that, calling in the morality police, the ethics committee on gaming, or even the president of Anet...what have you.

 

When it's against EULA only some players buy. When it's not most players will buy 

It's a much greater impact when it's sanctioned. And the gold farmers are still there. But now they are going to have to undercut. And that throws yet another wrench in the economy.

Also, it's not always about Pay-To-Win

Sometimes it's about Pay-(more than you thought)-To-Play

I love when people say...I won't pay. Well, maybe maybe not.

But these cash shops are a psychological game.

They are always there and always scratching at the surface of your awareness while you play.

They want you to see others who are using them and they want you to want that they want you envious.

Even that alone, if nothing more than forcing you into their psych war, can be a significant' PITA. One you wouldn't think of in other games.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Madimorga

You don't get it.  The reason I prefer a monthly sub is to keep other people's wallets out of my MMOs. 

 

Never happen my friend. As much as you want it, any sub-based game you'll have the third party gold sellers and PL services.

Just because it is 'illegal' to the game company (and that's a big maybe) it'll never stop happening. So all of your venting and preaching is about Anet doing it themselves and getting some of that cash because there will still be third party sites selling gold.

All of your examples are useless because it'll get done one way or the other. The only issue here is the legality of it.

All of your posts could have been summed up by one single line..."Why did Anet lower itself, in my eyes, by becoming a gold seller themselves?"

THEN, you could have a debate on that, calling in the morality police, the ethics committee on gaming, or even the president of Anet...what have you.

 

I know other MMO companies tolerate the hell out of RMT, banning sellers but not buyers, but it's partly because of that sub they want to keep getting.  I was so hoping ANet/NCSoft would take a tougher stance on it because they don't charge a sub.

 

You're right, I'm outraged.  Anet doesn't belong in the gold farming business.  Take the gems to gold crap out, I'll put up with the rest, even though it's definitely pay for power, if not pay to win.

No. We ban buyers too and or take the gold they bought away. But no matter how many we ban or how much gold we delete the gold farmers win the numbers game. Anets method is the only way to beat them or at least have some control over it's effects on the in game economy.

i dont mind cash shop as long as you have a choice to either grind that item or pay $ for it. by no means should you be forced to spend money to either lift certain game restrictions or have anything in game (like AoC).

you should have to pay to buy the game. there should be no subscription and absolutely everything in game should be atteinable through either grinding or raiding or arenas or some sort of farming.

cash shop should make items aveilable for those that dont want to spend the time to farm them. so those that have time and dont wanna pay can get it all through farming, and those that dont want to spend time farming can also get it all by paying really $.

everyone is happy.

Originally posted by gotha

subs are actually a pretty good way to run an online game.  They are more expensive then they need to be but a decent no strings attached way to run a game.

really?, so no strings attached.... if i stop paying monthly i am forced to stop enjoying the game i like.....no thanks. I find much less strings attached with a Buy to Play system ( no subs).

As i pointed out in other thread - a good AAA mmo makes enough profit from boxes / expansions / decent cash shop. Subscription mmos charge all that as well (yeah a lot of those are adding cash shos too)... So those subscriptions are not needed at all, they just want to take more money from our pockets and dont even deliver a game worthy of so much money.

But opinions are like buttz, everyone has one. xD

EDIT: i forgot to say taht Free to play mmos (full free mmos) dont charge for client or any content at all so taht is a strong reason why they add balance breaking items to the cash shop. They know a lot of people will get them to take advantage and the devs will make up that way for not having priced box and stuff. I bet if they were all buy to play and better quality they wouldnt consider selling powers in CS

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Madimorga

You don't get it.  The reason I prefer a monthly sub is to keep other people's wallets out of my MMOs. 

 

Never happen my friend. As much as you want it, any sub-based game you'll have the third party gold sellers and PL services.

Just because it is 'illegal' to the game company (and that's a big maybe) it'll never stop happening. So all of your venting and preaching is about Anet doing it themselves and getting some of that cash because there will still be third party sites selling gold.

All of your examples are useless because it'll get done one way or the other. The only issue here is the legality of it.

All of your posts could have been summed up by one single line..."Why did Anet lower itself, in my eyes, by becoming a gold seller themselves?"

THEN, you could have a debate on that, calling in the morality police, the ethics committee on gaming, or even the president of Anet...what have you.

 

I know other MMO companies tolerate the hell out of RMT, banning sellers but not buyers, but it's partly because of that sub they want to keep getting.  I was so hoping ANet/NCSoft would take a tougher stance on it because they don't charge a sub.

 

You're right, I'm outraged.  Anet doesn't belong in the gold farming business.  Take the gems to gold crap out, I'll put up with the rest, even though it's definitely pay for power, if not pay to win.

No. We ban buyers too and or take the gold they bought away. But no matter how many we ban or how much gold we delete the gold farmers win the numbers game. Anets method is the only way to beat them or at least have some control over it's effects on the in game economy.

If it would really get rid of them, I'd be less unhappy about it, but I played RoM when diamonds were frequently sold and I never saw so much farmer spam in my life, so it didn't even slow them down there, and Eve still has to regularly ban ISK buyers and sellers, so it hasn't stopped it there, either.

I don't think it will put much of a dent in it in Guild Wars 2, either.

Originally posted by brody71

i hate the whole cash shop idea now.  what if millions of people who play free to play, pay to win games start asking for power items in Gw2.  although i think it's unlikely, it's entirely possible that Ncsoft or Anet or whoever is in charge of the cash shop decides to start selling power items to make more money.  it just leave the door open to too much imo.  the revenue stream after box sales will be coming from people who use the shop, it only makes sense that they would listen to those paying customers.

Why would they listen to those paying customers?  How many people do you think really want P2W items in the cash shop as opposed to those that don't?  So long as they put things in their shop that the rest of us, the vast majority, want, they'll have no trouble selling them.  Catering to the tiny minority of P2W enthusiasts/advocates would basically drive hordes of their existing players away.  It's called shooting one's self in the foot.  Be realistic.

I'm sure this has already been said, but this should probably be a poll =)

My vote is for cash shop with this game. I like the idea of being able to play the structured PvP like an FPS, with no monthly fee. The PvE and WvW is added bonus content, and I won't feel obligated to play all the time.

If I want to buy something, it's my choice. I could also play the entire game at my leisure and never spend a dime outside the box price. I like it.

Edit:

One other thing is what makes F2P games suck is not just the cash shop, but the low production value. They always seem underwhelming to me. I don't think this will be the case with GW2 at all.

Also F2P games are generally ok for the first 10 levels, and then you suddenly realize you HAVE to start buying things. You run out of bag space, you need pay only potions, etc. etc. You become heavily inconvenienced by NOT paying. I don't think this will be the case with GW2 either, and the shop will seem more like TF2 hats, and keys etc.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Madimorga

You don't get it.  The reason I prefer a monthly sub is to keep other people's wallets out of my MMOs. 

 

Never happen my friend. As much as you want it, any sub-based game you'll have the third party gold sellers and PL services.

Just because it is 'illegal' to the game company (and that's a big maybe) it'll never stop happening. So all of your venting and preaching is about Anet doing it themselves and getting some of that cash because there will still be third party sites selling gold.

All of your examples are useless because it'll get done one way or the other. The only issue here is the legality of it.

All of your posts could have been summed up by one single line..."Why did Anet lower itself, in my eyes, by becoming a gold seller themselves?"

THEN, you could have a debate on that, calling in the morality police, the ethics committee on gaming, or even the president of Anet...what have you.

 

I know other MMO companies tolerate the hell out of RMT, banning sellers but not buyers, but it's partly because of that sub they want to keep getting.  I was so hoping ANet/NCSoft would take a tougher stance on it because they don't charge a sub.

 

You're right, I'm outraged.  Anet doesn't belong in the gold farming business.  Take the gems to gold crap out, I'll put up with the rest, even though it's definitely pay for power, if not pay to win.

No. We ban buyers too and or take the gold they bought away. But no matter how many we ban or how much gold we delete the gold farmers win the numbers game. Anets method is the only way to beat them or at least have some control over it's effects on the in game economy.

If it would really get rid of them, I'd be less unhappy about it, but I played RoM when diamonds were frequently sold and I never saw so much farmer spam in my life, so it didn't even slow them down there, and Eve still has to regularly ban ISK buyers and sellers, so it hasn't stopped it there, either.

 

I don't think it will put much of a dent in it in Guild Wars 2, either.

The only thing you can do is hurt their profit margin as much as possible. By selling gems it forces gold sellers to lower their prices.

I love the model they've come up with for the cash shop. Cash shops beat the hell out of subs to me- if you don't want the extra inventory space, don't pay for it. But if you can afford everything? Go ahead and buy everything! That being said, I also don't see anything wrong with selling XP potions and the like in the cash shop. You're not blocking content from anyone, are you?

Originally posted by brody71

i hate the whole cash shop idea now.  what if millions of people who play free to play, pay to win games start asking for power items in Gw2. 

what if sub based mmos started adding power items on their cash shop and paid services?

edit: "for $5-10 extra bucks monthly you can have cooldown free skills!".... can you imagine? lol

gimmie b2p or gimmie death. no sub needed

Originally posted by Madimorga

I know other MMO companies tolerate the hell out of RMT, banning sellers but not buyers, but it's partly because of that sub they want to keep getting.  I was so hoping ANet/NCSoft would take a tougher stance on it because they don't charge a sub.

 

You're right, I'm outraged.  Anet doesn't belong in the gold farming business.  Take the gems to gold crap out, I'll put up with the rest, even though it's definitely pay for power, if not pay to win.

That stance I can respect. All those 'scenarios' you brought up in previous threads were all ethereal to the real issue.

In all honesty, I'd love to see gold sellers disappear from Mmos. Given the average consumer, however, I seriously doubt that will ever happen. So, as the old adage goes 'If you can't beat 'em, join them.'

Bit of a cop-out true, but if this is the trend to come, why not embrace it (as a company not the player) and attempt at controlling it.

Only time will tell if this system will be better or worse than the existing one with all other mmos. You must pick your battles otherwise your stance on this will stop you from playing any mmo's.

Originally posted by Xzen

 

The only thing you can do is hurt their profit margin as much as possible. By selling gems it forces gold sellers to lower their prices.

I will say this, if enforcement is so swift and thorough that I virtually never see farmer spam or run into moronic level 80s who clearly bought their account off EBay, or hackers and botters, I'll feel a lot more goodwill toward ANet/NCSoft than I do right now.

league of legends works without any p2w.

gw2 can do the same. no sub is great.

if they do a good job i will pay for some stuff. if not...  they won't get my money.

sub, cash shops reek

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by brody71

i hate the whole cash shop idea now.  what if millions of people who play free to play, pay to win games start asking for power items in Gw2. 

what if sub based mmos started adding power items on their cash shop and paid services?

edit: "for $5-10 extra bucks monthly you can have cooldown free skills!".... can you imagine? lol

gimmie b2p or gimmie death. no sub needed

Don't look now, but those days are almost upon us.  I'm pretty sure CCP is investigating ways to pull this off with their new WOD title and they won't be the last.

Ultimately I think we'll have the ultimate hybrid, titles with multiple payment options including B2P, F2P, Sub fees all rolled into one.

Actually we already have a prototype, EQ2.  They offer the game almost totally F2P, however to unlock all character races (and classes?) you need to pay them something, and there are tons of cosmetic items for sale in the cash shop, (and some very uncosmetic mounts) and if you like you can pay them a sub fee and buy stuff from the cash shop. They'll even sell you a box copy of the latest version if you really want to play the newest content.

And they say SOE isn't innovative.

Originally posted by Hrica

sub, cash shops reek

Agreed but I will still play this.

Cash shop. Why? Because I'm not forced to keep paying fore the sole reason of continuing to play. There is also the fact that there is absolutely nothing stopping a company from adding a cash shop to a sub game.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by brody71

i hate the whole cash shop idea now.  what if millions of people who play free to play, pay to win games start asking for power items in Gw2. 

what if sub based mmos started adding power items on their cash shop and paid services?

edit: "for $5-10 extra bucks monthly you can have cooldown free skills!".... can you imagine? lol

gimmie b2p or gimmie death. no sub needed

Don't look now, but those days are almost upon us.  I'm pretty sure CCP is investigating ways to pull this off with their new WOD title and they won't be the last.

Ultimately I think we'll have the ultimate hybrid, titles with multiple payment options including B2P, F2P, Sub fees all rolled into one.

Actually we already have a prototype, EQ2.  They offer the game almost totally F2P, however to unlock all character races (and classes?) you need to pay them something, and there are tons of cosmetic items for sale in the cash shop, (and some very uncosmetic mounts) and if you like you can pay them a sub fee and buy stuff from the cash shop. They'll even sell you a box copy of the latest version if you really want to play the newest content.

And they say SOE isn't innovative.

 

I'm very worried that The Secret World will take interest in the diamond for gold thing.  And that is going to be buy the box, sub, and cash shop.  If they do, I won't touch it.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by Xzen

 

The only thing you can do is hurt their profit margin as much as possible. By selling gems it forces gold sellers to lower their prices.

I will say this, if enforcement is so swift and thorough that I virtually never see farmer spam or run into moronic level 80s who clearly bought their account off EBay, or hackers and botters, I'll feel a lot more goodwill toward ANet/NCSoft than I do right now.

We will have to wait and see how that turns out. I havent seen much spamming in GW1 but I have seen third party sights that sell GW1 in-game goods as well as reports of the same third party sellers getting mass bans. But like I said GW1 is not GW2. We have to wait and see how well they handle it.