Originally posted by Fozzik

Give me back the sub fee, please.

Again, why?

Everything you've seen about the game has nothing to do with the shop (which, the very 'worst' item in it is still purely cosmetic when it boils down to it). You're letting unjust fears get the better of you.

As long as it isn't P2W* I prefer the cash shop. At least there I can pay nothing and still have the whole game available without restrictions.

* NOTE: The way I see it there are two ways people use P2W. First one is "if you get any advantage by paying, it's P2W", if that's the way you see it, then it is indeed P2W. Personally, I see P2W as in "you can't get past a certain point/level/gear without paying" so I'm fine with Anet's aproach for now.

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by brody71

i hate the whole cash shop idea now.  what if millions of people who play free to play, pay to win games start asking for power items in Gw2. 

They'll ignore them. It's not hard :p

why would they ignore people asking to hand over there money?

Originally posted by L0C0Man

* NOTE: The way I see it there are two ways people use P2W. First one is "if you get any advantage by paying, it's P2W"

Tbh, this view is stupid. If looking at it this way, any game with DLC is pay to win, as they have the advantage of accessing that DLC.

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by brody71

i hate the whole cash shop idea now.  what if millions of people who play free to play, pay to win games start asking for power items in Gw2. 

They'll ignore them. It's not hard :p

why would they ignore people asking to hand over there money?

Because there are millions who would stop handing them their money. Everyone knows games with abusive cash shops fail in the west. This is a western made RPG, not a korean grind fest, they know their target market would rage quit at a P2W cash shop.

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by Fozzik

Give me back the sub fee, please.

Again, why?

Everything you've seen about the game has nothing to do with the shop (which, the very 'worst' item in it is still purely cosmetic when it boils down to it). You're letting unjust fears get the better of you.

what about the repair mechanic?  and how the shop sells an item to make it more convenient for you to bypass said mechanic.

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by Fozzik

Give me back the sub fee, please.

Again, why?

Everything you've seen about the game has nothing to do with the shop (which, the very 'worst' item in it is still purely cosmetic when it boils down to it). You're letting unjust fears get the better of you.

and how the shop sells an item to make it more convenient for you to bypass said mechanic.

Source.

Plus, the mechanic is bypassed by teleporting back to town anyway :p In very hard content, such an item would allow you to continue banging your head against it for a little bit longer before doing a town run. All boss encounters ect. in dungeons reset if the party gets too far away, you can't win by attrition :)

Repair is there to make you think 'i'm getting screwed here', not neccessarily to absolutely stop you dead (since repairing isn't too hard to do, just a quick 'port).

Plus, if you die enough in the open world to really think a repair kit would be useful, i'd have to laugh anyway ^^ The open world just isn't that hard, even in the parts of the high level eurogamer demo which were specifically 'not toned down' (most of it was, ofc).

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by Fozzik

Give me back the sub fee, please.

Again, why?

Everything you've seen about the game has nothing to do with the shop (which, the very 'worst' item in it is still purely cosmetic when it boils down to it). You're letting unjust fears get the better of you.

and how the shop sells an item to make it more convenient for you to bypass said mechanic.

Source.

Plus, the mechanic is bypassed by teleporting back to town anyway :p In very hard content, such an item would allow you to continue banging your head against it for a little bit longer before doing a town run. All boss encounters ect. in dungeons reset if the party gets too far away, you can't win by attrition :)

Repair is there to make you think 'i'm getting screwed here', not neccessarily to absolutely stop you dead (since repairing isn't too hard to do, just a quick 'port).

Plus, if you die enough in the open world to really think a repair kit would be useful, i'd have to laugh anyway ^^ The open world just isn't that hard, even in the parts of the high level eurogamer demo which were specifically 'not toned down' (most of it was, ofc).

you may have just woken up. you might want to check out the forums.

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by Pangentor
Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.

It sucks when someone with no self control spends $150 a month and then has an advantage over someone who doesn't in terms of leveling speed, PvE, and especially PvP.

 

Now someone is going to say, Guild Wars 2 is different, no cash shop item, no leveling speed, no gear, no gold will give someone else and advantage.  To which I say, we'll see, but I'm not buying it.  I and several others have already pointed out ways that people with money to burn could have an advantage over other players. 

The only way i can see an advantage would be level speed "maybe". Gear stats cap so there will be no advantages in PvE. Leveling speed isn't that big a deal. Took forever to level a priest versus a pally in wow but people still played priest and didn't complain that they were broken because they leveled slower

If gold can buy you anything in this game worth having, then leveling speed is an advantage as long as level 80 mobs drop better vendor trash than level 1 mobs.

I already said it, I'll say it again.  My plan is to never spend anything beyond the initial box cost and whatever items will max me out quickest, which means I need gold and lots of it, and fast, so I can buy diamonds while inflation is low (assuming diamonds don't have price controls).  Getting to 80 faster than the vast majority of players will be an advantage to me.  Again, assuming there is anything in the AH worth having.  And if there isn't?  Well, why bother with gold or crafting at all? 

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by Fozzik

Give me back the sub fee, please.

Again, why?

Everything you've seen about the game has nothing to do with the shop (which, the very 'worst' item in it is still purely cosmetic when it boils down to it). You're letting unjust fears get the better of you.

and how the shop sells an item to make it more convenient for you to bypass said mechanic.

Source.

Plus, the mechanic is bypassed by teleporting back to town anyway :p In very hard content, such an item would allow you to continue banging your head against it for a little bit longer before doing a town run. All boss encounters ect. in dungeons reset if the party gets too far away, you can't win by attrition :)

Repair is there to make you think 'i'm getting screwed here', not neccessarily to absolutely stop you dead (since repairing isn't too hard to do, just a quick 'port).

Plus, if you die enough in the open world to really think a repair kit would be useful, i'd have to laugh anyway ^^ The open world just isn't that hard, even in the parts of the high level eurogamer demo which were specifically 'not toned down' (most of it was, ofc).

you may have just woken up. you might want to check out the forums.

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by Fozzik

Give me back the sub fee, please.

Again, why?

Everything you've seen about the game has nothing to do with the shop (which, the very 'worst' item in it is still purely cosmetic when it boils down to it). You're letting unjust fears get the better of you.

and how the shop sells an item to make it more convenient for you to bypass said mechanic.

Source.

Plus, the mechanic is bypassed by teleporting back to town anyway :p In very hard content, such an item would allow you to continue banging your head against it for a little bit longer before doing a town run. All boss encounters ect. in dungeons reset if the party gets too far away, you can't win by attrition :)

Repair is there to make you think 'i'm getting screwed here', not neccessarily to absolutely stop you dead (since repairing isn't too hard to do, just a quick 'port).

Plus, if you die enough in the open world to really think a repair kit would be useful, i'd have to laugh anyway ^^ The open world just isn't that hard, even in the parts of the high level eurogamer demo which were specifically 'not toned down' (most of it was, ofc).

you may have just woken up. you might want to check out the forums.

So i'm assuming some people have leaked a cash shop list?

Really, that's the item they're moaning about (the one which is fairly benign for the reasons i've put forward)? The GW2 community surprised me for once :D

EDIT: Aha! seems they've changed the particular item that i thought was 'bad' before this event. That's good then :) They actually changed it to something that i thought would make much more sense anyway.

But yeah, the cash shop seems fine to me. Repair kits wont help in hard dungeons.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by Pangentor
Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.

It sucks when someone with no self control spends $150 a month and then has an advantage over someone who doesn't in terms of leveling speed, PvE, and especially PvP.

 

Now someone is going to say, Guild Wars 2 is different, no cash shop item, no leveling speed, no gear, no gold will give someone else and advantage.  To which I say, we'll see, but I'm not buying it.  I and several others have already pointed out ways that people with money to burn could have an advantage over other players. 

The only way i can see an advantage would be level speed "maybe". Gear stats cap so there will be no advantages in PvE. Leveling speed isn't that big a deal. Took forever to level a priest versus a pally in wow but people still played priest and didn't complain that they were broken because they leveled slower

If gold can buy you anything in this game worth having, then leveling speed is an advantage as long as level 80 mobs drop better vendor trash than level 1 mobs.

 

I already said it, I'll say it again.  My plan is to never spend anything beyond the initial box cost and whatever items will max me out quickest, which means I need gold and lots of it, and fast, so I can buy diamonds while inflation is low (assuming diamonds don't have price controls).  Getting to 80 faster than the vast majority of players will be an advantage to me.  Again, assuming there is anything in the AH worth having.  And if there isn't?  Well, why bother with gold or crafting at all? 

So the advantage you see, is another player getting to the AH before you?

Reading the GW2Guru thread, it actually seems very few are moaning about the repair kit anyway, probably for the exact reasons i've outlined. Only time i can see it being useful is when you're defending in WvW. But even then, it's not going to help you that much, since it's it's not like you can revive where you stand still. You'll still likely have to rez at a waypoint (which, if you don't have a repair vendor in your keep anyway, you're unlikely to have at all anywhere close), in which case you may as well just use the vendor :D

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by Pangentor
Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.

It sucks when someone with no self control spends $150 a month and then has an advantage over someone who doesn't in terms of leveling speed, PvE, and especially PvP.

 

Now someone is going to say, Guild Wars 2 is different, no cash shop item, no leveling speed, no gear, no gold will give someone else and advantage.  To which I say, we'll see, but I'm not buying it.  I and several others have already pointed out ways that people with money to burn could have an advantage over other players. 

The only way i can see an advantage would be level speed "maybe". Gear stats cap so there will be no advantages in PvE. Leveling speed isn't that big a deal. Took forever to level a priest versus a pally in wow but people still played priest and didn't complain that they were broken because they leveled slower

If gold can buy you anything in this game worth having, then leveling speed is an advantage as long as level 80 mobs drop better vendor trash than level 1 mobs.

 

I already said it, I'll say it again.  My plan is to never spend anything beyond the initial box cost and whatever items will max me out quickest, which means I need gold and lots of it, and fast, so I can buy diamonds while inflation is low (assuming diamonds don't have price controls).  Getting to 80 faster than the vast majority of players will be an advantage to me.  Again, assuming there is anything in the AH worth having.  And if there isn't?  Well, why bother with gold or crafting at all? 

So the advantage you see, is another player getting to the AH before you?

If gold has value, I intend to sell it for diamonds plus sell my drops for gold on the AH, therefore getting the diamond for gold sellers coming and going (hey, if we're going to pit your wallet against my time, I'm making sure your wallet loses). 

Past experience tells me these diamonds will sell cheaper at first because there won't be as much gold floating around, so the more gold I have at the beginning, the more diamonds I can buy to sell for way more gold later and to use for costumes, inventory, character slots, and probably expansions down the road.

Now imagine a group of gold farmers doing this, or even large guilds.  The first people with large amounts of gold will fare better than everyone else and will determine much of the economy in game.  To some extent this would have happened anyway, of course, but I would not have been interested in the market at all in this game if it weren't for the diamond thing.  Now it's a point of pride with me and a challenge not to be That Westerner.  You know the one, the Westerner with oveflowing pockets who can't be arsed to think for herself in a game, much less do anything the hard way, much less use her  brain to figure out how to get what she wants in a game without breaking out her real life wallet.

Why am I so open about this?  Because if you don't like this cash shop but you still want to play the game, I want to encourage you not to be That Westerner.

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Reading the GW2Guru thread, it actually seems very few are moaning about the repair kit anyway, probably for the exact reasons i've outlined. Only time i can see it being useful is when you're defending in WvW. But even then, it's not going to help you that much, since it's it's not like you can revive where you stand still. You'll still likely have to rez at a waypoint (which, if you don't have a repair vendor in your keep anyway, you're unlikely to have at all anywhere close), in which case you may as well just use the vendor :D

iirc you asked for an example where game design may have been changed to accomidate the cash shop. that was the example i gave you.

Originally posted by illorion

Hmm another one of these....

Again, if it's like the cash shop in GW1, then there is nothing to worry about

You can sell gem to other player, that already have nothing to do with the cash shop in GW1

Originally posted by Mythios11

I'd much rather pay a monthly sub than have a company use a cash shop to supplement their income.  

Cash shop's are a slipperly slope.  Maybe they don't have a lot of "pay to win" items in it at launch but rest assured, if ArenaNet finds that it's not as profitable as they anticipated they will most certainly add more enticing items down the road.

Cash Shops are everywhere. Just look at the mmorpg market. E.G. WoW. You have to pay for a Race Change, Server Transfer, Pet Shop(25$Mount), etc.. In addition to that you are able to buy a "cash shop pet" with ingame gold. (Guardian Cub)
Furthermmore Tera Online and Eve Online use a similar system. You can buy some "Timecards" with ingame gold. (Chronoscrolls & PLEX)

Originally posted by Mythios11

I'd much rather pay a monthly sub than have a company use a cash shop to supplement their income.  

Cash shop's are a slipperly slope.  Maybe they don't have a lot of "pay to win" items in it at launch but rest assured, if ArenaNet finds that it's not as profitable as they anticipated they will most certainly add more enticing items down the road.

 

Monthly sub is for greedy, talentless companies, who love to cash in by doing nothing at all. They force you to buy expansions on top of it, which should be free considering they are released every 1-2 years, which means you already paid in extense of 200+$ inbetween for what? Nothing at all. Please don't mention server costs, because that's just silly. There are dozens of games that let you play free forever, online, they somehow manage to cover the costs right? Moreover, when you pay a sub you are forced to swallow whatever the companies shove down your throat. With a microtransaction model you can choose what you pay for. This is how it should be. Of course there are pitfalls but ANet seems to handle it perfectly so far. 

The fault in your logic is that you assume ANet is like the others, but they have clearly proven they are not. They are doing what they can to stop the decade long ripoff that the MMO's have become. You should support them, instead of inventing false predictions. Besides you can always go run the threadmill in WoW, Blizzard loves to rip people off as they have recently stated, the "sub model works well" for them ;) Go hamsters! :P

Myself I like to have a choice, and I choose high quality, therefore I stay with ANet.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by Pangentor
Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.

It sucks when someone with no self control spends $150 a month and then has an advantage over someone who doesn't in terms of leveling speed, PvE, and especially PvP.

 

Now someone is going to say, Guild Wars 2 is different, no cash shop item, no leveling speed, no gear, no gold will give someone else and advantage.  To which I say, we'll see, but I'm not buying it.  I and several others have already pointed out ways that people with money to burn could have an advantage over other players. 

The only way i can see an advantage would be level speed "maybe". Gear stats cap so there will be no advantages in PvE. Leveling speed isn't that big a deal. Took forever to level a priest versus a pally in wow but people still played priest and didn't complain that they were broken because they leveled slower

If gold can buy you anything in this game worth having, then leveling speed is an advantage as long as level 80 mobs drop better vendor trash than level 1 mobs.

 

I already said it, I'll say it again.  My plan is to never spend anything beyond the initial box cost and whatever items will max me out quickest, which means I need gold and lots of it, and fast, so I can buy diamonds while inflation is low (assuming diamonds don't have price controls).  Getting to 80 faster than the vast majority of players will be an advantage to me.  Again, assuming there is anything in the AH worth having.  And if there isn't?  Well, why bother with gold or crafting at all? 

So the advantage you see, is another player getting to the AH before you?

If gold has value, I intend to sell it for diamonds plus sell my drops for gold on the AH, therefore getting the diamond for gold sellers coming and going (hey, if we're going to pit your wallet against my time, I'm making sure your wallet loses). 

 

Past experience tells me these diamonds will sell cheaper at first because there won't be as much gold floating around, so the more gold I have at the beginning, the more diamonds I can buy to sell for way more gold later and to use for costumes, inventory, character slots, and probably expansions down the road.

 

Now imagine a group of gold farmers doing this, or even large guilds.  The first people with large amounts of gold will fare better than everyone else and will determine much of the economy in game.  To some extent this would have happened anyway, of course, but I would not have been interested in the market at all in this game if it weren't for the diamond thing.  Now it's a point of pride with me and a challenge not to be That Westerner.  You know the one, the Westerner with oveflowing pockets who can't be arsed to think for herself in a game, much less do anything the hard way, much less use her  brain to figure out how to get what she wants in a game without breaking out her real life wallet.

Why am I so open about this?  Because if you don't like this cash shop but you still want to play the game, I want to encourage you not to be That Westerner.

Oh, thats easy, since I can get anything in game, by just playing, then I wont be that westerner, because I wont have to open my wallet, ever.

But, I might buy a skin or something when I hit max level, just so my enemies can recognize me in WvW   :D