Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

Someone beat me to it.

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

Ding ding ding....we have a winner. 

pfff.... that's actually hilarious how well such a simple statement shot that down.

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

^ this. The scenario Mustapha describes has plagued practically every F2P MMO so far, but the one exception to this rule is found in the previous game of the very same developers who are making GW2. That's very promising.

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

^ this. The scenario Mustapha describes has plagued practically every F2P MMO so far, but the one exception to this rule is found in the previous game of the very same developers who are making GW2. That's very promising.

What about skill packs? To me that's far out of the cosmetic only ballpark.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

^ this. The scenario Mustapha describes has plagued practically every F2P MMO so far, but the one exception to this rule is found in the previous game of the very same developers who are making GW2. That's very promising.

What about skill packs? To me that's far out of the cosmetic only ballpark.

Which is why they completely redesigned how one gets skills of any kind in GW2, which makes your point moot just like GW1 store makes moot the statement above. They had a first game they tested all of these things, they redid a new game basically fixing every major problem for players of every major mmo out there. Yes it is that good. Can we move on now and talk about something else more important?

I'm a lurker mainly and I let me just say I will still buy this game for the story.  Buy wow I hate being focred to buy buffs.

But after, I will probably be done.  I hate playing a game where I have to keep an effing boost on myself the whole time to be competitive.  Whether I can farm it via daily quests or buy it matters little to me.  It is a stupid time/money sink and will NEVER be fun.

Like I said, though.  I will still buy the box and play to cap with my wife and then drop the game.  I bought all the GW1 expansions, but i'll be on the fence about explansions for GW2.

The following quote tells me I will never pvp in this game or try to stay competitive.  I have given hundreds of dollars to League of Legends because their cash shop was never unfair.  I have never cared about even $20 a month subs since that is the price of taking my wife to a movie.  BUT I CANNOT STAND FREAKING MICRO TRANSACIONS via Death potions or strange buffs!

This is their quote after ebing asked Isn't this effectively, pay2win?

"... there is an consumable in the microtransaction shop, that gives players a +10% boost to all damage, everyone can purchase it ..."

Originally posted by gwarf

I'm a lurker mainly and I let me just say I will still buy this game for the story.  Buy wow I hate being focred to buy buffs.

 

But after, I will probably be done.  I hate playing a game where I have to keep an effing boost on myself the whole time to be competitive.  Whether I can farm it via daily quests or buy it matters little to me.  It is a stupid time/money sink and will NEVER be fun.

Like I said, though.  I will still buy the box and play to cap with my wife and then drop the game.  I bought all the GW1 expansions, but i'll be on the fence about explansions for GW2.

The following quote tells me I will never pvp in this game or try to stay competitive.  I have given hundreds of dollars to League of Legends because their cash shop was never unfair.  I have never cared about even $20 a month subs since that is the price of taking my wife to a movie.  BUT I CANNOT STAND FREAKING MICRO TRANSACIONS via Death potions or strange buffs!

 

This is their quote after ebing asked Isn't this effectively, pay2win?

"... there is an consumable in the microtransaction shop, that gives players a +10% boost to all damage, everyone can purchase it ..."

 

 

Originally posted by gwarf

 

 

This is their quote after ebing asked Isn't this effectively, pay2win?

"... there is an consumable in the microtransaction shop, that gives players a +10% boost to all damage, everyone can purchase it ..."

 

[Edited for formatting]

 

Either we're looking at different quotes, but this is the full line that I saw: "Even if there is an consumable in the microtransaction shop, that gives players a +10% boost to all damage, everyone can purchase it."

While the tone in that line is kind of dismissive of the concerns of a good deal of people, the edits in that quote entirely change the meaning to something somewhat more inflammatory, at least as readily perceived...

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

^ this. The scenario Mustapha describes has plagued practically every F2P MMO so far, but the one exception to this rule is found in the previous game of the very same developers who are making GW2. That's very promising.

What about skill packs? To me that's far out of the cosmetic only ballpark.

Which is why they completely redesigned how one gets skills of any kind in GW2, which makes your point moot just like GW1 store makes moot the statement above. They had a first game they tested all of these things, they redid a new game basically fixing every major problem for players of every major mmo out there. Yes it is that good. Can we move on now and talk about something else more important?

Sorry, but i don't think many will move on until more info is released and things can be settled. And just because GW1's CS was one way, doesn't mean GW2 will be the same. They will need much more income to offset geater dev expense and the game mechanics are different so things (like boosts) will impact game differently. Plus the way they are doing gems for gold is different already. No, I don't think this one is just going to go away. And it shouldn't. If potential buyers don't want certain things in game, they need to let Anet know now.

Originally posted by ambvai

Originally posted by gwarf

 

 

This is their quote after ebing asked Isn't this effectively, pay2win?

"... there is an consumable in the microtransaction shop, that gives players a +10% boost to all damage, everyone can purchase it ..."

 

[Edited for formatting]

 

Either we're looking at different quotes, but this is the full line that I saw: "Even if there is an consumable in the microtransaction shop, that gives players a +10% boost to all damage, everyone can purchase it."

While the tone in that line is kind of dismissive of the concerns of a good deal of people, the edits in that quote entirely change the meaning to something somewhat more inflammatory, at least as readily perceived...

They did say that and they are confirming they are okay with it. Here are 4 confirmed boosts.

50% XP boost for one hour for kills ONLY?
10% extra chance to gain extra EXPERIENCE while crafting?
Improve chance to find rare items for one hour by only 10%?
20% more karma for one hour?

Really, you are going to focus on the word "if"? when they already have those type of buffs in the shop?

[mod edit]

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

League of Legends, Bloodline Champions, Guild Wars 1, plenty of games with cosmetic DLC (Street Fighter IV for example), Team Fortress 2, and I'm sure there are plenty others.

So now anyone with enough in game gold can spam their trolling chat messages to everyone on the server?  If this is real, well, thanks a lot ANet.

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

League of Legends. Team Fortress 2. They never will be. I bet you everything - literally.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Distopia

Is it hard to understand why people who feel rewards should be earned by playing the game, feel that way? Is it really that hard to understand?

 

 

 

For those stuck in the pit of fanaticism, yes it is, it threatens their certainty and that weakens their faith, into which they have invested their self esteem. It is far easier to deny inconvenient news and to refuse to see things from another perspective.

 

All this has happened before, and will happen again.

Battlestar isnt coming back anytime soon to TV, and Mass Effect will get rid of it if smart.

SHould pick another phrase.

Originally posted by Bunks

As someone who has defended Anet to this point. let me say without question, [mod edit]  are making my stomach turn right now.

The [mod edit] aren't sitting well with me either. But I can live with that to some degree. But  [mod edit]means, you need to spend cash to open rare dropped items. FK you Anet, now you are starting to sound like Cryptic.

 

They have crossed the line.

Wow, this is actually worse then I imagine, [mod edit]

Did NCSoft and Perfect World merge while I was asleep?

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by dudeduder45

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Item shops almost always lead to P2W.

 

Can somebody tell me a game with an item shop that's not like that? If it's not, how much do you want to bet it will be one day? Having the mechanism in place is the first step. It starts off innocent enough ("cosmetic" items... "minimal" convenience items... etc.). But, as time progresses, the rewards will become better and better (and more tempting) while the IG means of acquiring the goods will become more and more difficult/tedious. I have no feelings one way or the other about this game, but this sure isn't going to be a "B2P"-only title. The very reason they are including an item shop is to lay the foundation and mechanism by which players will begin to fork over money for IG items that *DO* matter. It's all about people getting accustomed and used to the idea of an item shop. Once they have a degree of familiarity, the P2W beast will emerge in its true form....

Gw1

^ this. The scenario Mustapha describes has plagued practically every F2P MMO so far, but the one exception to this rule is found in the previous game of the very same developers who are making GW2. That's very promising.

I realize GW1 fits the criteria I asked for, but my point is that every other game with an item shop tends to go the way of P2W eventually. GW1 might never, same with GW2, but the whole "gem system" strikes me as a way to make a much easier transition. I think at a certain point, game companies look to P2W as a way to get the last drops of revenue out of a dying game (provided an item shop exists to allow them to do so).

Maybe both games will survive forever, but I was trying to point out that if things start to go bad, having an item shop leads to P2W. It just makes it too easy to ignore for a struggling company. Sure, things are great now, but with an item shop present, it's all one step closer to P2W. You can trust who you want, but exchanging money for *any* kind of items introduces possibilities to the game that almost always lead to the inevitable paying for an advantage of some kind. Even now, people are listing all kinds of items that are bothering them. Things can change before release, but people have a right to be wary.

It would be great if GW2 actually succeeds beyond expectations and doesn't turn into a P2W model (this genre needs different payment models than the two extremes), but that doesn't change the fact that I detest item shops and remain very skeptical about how things will go with this particular game because it has one. It doesn't matter what their track record is... I've seen too many great companies gut their flagship IP's for a quick buck, so it's not easy to trust prior performance. Maybe ANet will remain an upstanding company forever, but even the best are bought out by greedy people who run once great companies like factories, trying to suck every dime out of the place before running it into the ground.

Guys - reposting and discussing specifics of leaked material that is still under an NDA is not permitted and will be removed.

Ehh....I still have my doubts about Cash Shop in Guild Wars. Hope Over time it doesn't turn into a P2W PvP fest....

Why they just don't make servers without any cashshops so all who wanne play fair don't have to deal with all the losers who wanne buy there way to Fame and Glory Status(Fail and Loser status).

Its all about money and Anet is no difference they wanne earn money in a capitalistic world its simple as that, so besides selling game they also want to OPEN YOUR WALLET and spent as many DOLLARS/EUROS to buy in the CASH SHOP so they become RICH hehe.