http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/21/the-soapbox-the-hidden-perils-of-guild-wars-2s-microtransactio/

Interesting read. Still, the fact of the matter is cash shops are just a way to stop gold farmers or at the very least mitigate them and make a profit. If done right, not p2w, you might at the very least do the latter. It's still better than no cash shop and rampant gold famers....again, only if its done right.

I hate cash shops of any kind.

GW2's cash shop is nothing new and plenty of asian MMOs have adopted what Anet is trying to do with no avail. "Gold" spammers still run rampent in those games too.

One reason I am waiting until after release before even thinking about playing the game. Have to find out how they are doing the cash shop and the PvE content.

Umm just for a lil food for thought I want everyon to anwser these questions.

"Can gold buy you [everything] in the game even if this is possible."

"Is it [skill] or gear."

"What are the actual[ in game mechanics] that make p2w, I.E could you p2w in a [dungeon], with [level scaling] what will you pay 2 win with?"

"WvWvW's blue stamps are by gold, but in order to be [useful] you must have s[upply], so what can you do with both r/l money and gold?"

"Are there [more currencies] that get you things that are[ non tradable]?"

"If nothing in the cash shop gives you a free pass from an ass whooping what will you be buying to win since you [can't] win regardless?

Thank you for your time and enjoy your day. I won't be responding to [any false claims] if these questions are answered. This is a bit of a learning experience for me and I'm sure others who know this already.

Also interesting OP.

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

It's amusing and I'm starting to enjoy it because that's all it is, that's all that's been stated literally lol.

Originally posted by Kuppa

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/21/the-soapbox-the-hidden-perils-of-guild-wars-2s-microtransactio/

 

Interesting read. Still, the fact of the matter is cash shops are just a way to stop gold farmers or at the very least mitigate them and make a profit. If done right, not p2w, you might at the very least do the latter. It's still better than no cash shop and rampant gold famers....again, only if its done right.

i dont think it will be pay to win.  but, i kind of agree with the author's point,  gold sellers can still farm gold, and they can use that gold to buy gems to get even more gold to sell, all while under-cutting Anet's gem price.

edit: i do think it can cut down on gold sellers, but i dont think it will prevent them.

I bought a fluff item in GW1 cash shop which was advertised as "limited". Today they still offer it.

Sorry, but if you do something like this, do it like...god I hate to say it... do it like WoW.

Edit: Wedding couple attire

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

Originally posted by ariboersma

I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

I am not sure, if trading RL currency is neccessarily bad. It depends on the community - ok, it was sh!t when GW1 released.

Now you cannot buy much pay-to win items in GW since let´s say the weapon damage is limited. In DAoC it was 16.5 damage per second. So if Anet has a strict number here, too, then it won´t affect door knocking...erm WvW much.

Originally posted by Metentso

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

The stuff that makes you level faster  is not really pay2win, it is more pay2be-lazy. Leveling up faster does not really make you win.

I havn't seen anything on them selling in game buffs, but if they do I am pretty certain they are just like the dropped buffs in GW, PvE only.

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ariboersma

I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

that is not what I said, you have to understand how very little of the diamonds were even tradable. He said that tradeable diamonds were stopped to stop fraud. Not the same thing. Also its only remotely relevant.

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ariboersma

I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

He might be right of course, but RoMs cashshop sells gear with stats and similar things so it isn't neccesarily true for GW2 as well.

To be honest does the stuff GW2 peddle you seems like junk with just different appearance or that make you level faster, you can´t compare that with selling gear that is far above standard gear.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by ariboersma

I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

He might be right of course, but RoMs cashshop sells gear with stats and similar things so it isn't neccesarily true for GW2 as well.

To be honest does the stuff GW2 peddle you seems like junk with just different appearance or that make you level faster, you can´t compare that with selling gear that is far above standard gear.

oh i agree. i dont think gw2 will be pay to win at all.  but he didnt compare that part of RoM to Gw2. he compared the parts he saw a similar.  the trading of gems for gold.

Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

Before you try to claim something is "not good for ones argument", you actually need to provide one of your own. Something like "Boosts are Pay-2-win because of yada yada". Just making a very basic sentence with less meat on its bone than a bleached skeleton isn't a shining example of an argument.

In structured PvP, your levels are boosted to the cap, which removes what little "help" an exp booster would provide. You earn experience in all forms of PvP, and in the case of WvWvW there is a range of content available to contribute for despite one's level.

And in PvE, your level can be kicked down in areas so as not to provide an obscene advantage like you usually see in games (no killing a lvl 5 npc as an 80 for instance). So over-leveling in an area isn't going to do jack squat for you.

The ONLY advantage quicker leveling would provide is quicker access to trait lines and points for it. Yet that isn't going to provide an obscene advantage either.

Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

Originally posted by Madimorga

Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

 

And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

Please tell me what you can you buy that makes your level faster.

I know and you know. This shit is amusing as fuck.

A matter of fact because I notice how you use to use that blue stamp argument please tell me the power difference because as of right nw we both don't know, but not even a person with lvl 80 gear can 1 hit k.o a level 2 and you want to know why?

Also please inform us if killing gives points in winning wvwvw which it doesn't, spawn camping? nooooo lol

Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by thedarkess

I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".