Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Cavod

BW releases numbers: It's a lie SWTOR is dieing

EA releases numbers: It's a lie SWTOR is dieing
 

 

No.  That's not true.   They released one number, one time.   It's morons in the "gamer journalism" field who cause the problem.   They're innumare, incompetent and credulous.   Just like this last article.

As for EA/BioWare, they have released numbers one-time and one-time only.   Nothing else.   There was a badly phrased, meaningless quote later on, but EA is a publically traded company.   They must disclose certain things at certain times and they do so through official channels.

You can find EA Investor Relations here:  http://investor.ea.com/financials.cfm

You can see all the press releases and financial information related to SWTOR, along with their other 'important' games, there.   Once and once only did they release numbers and that was on February 1st for the quarter ended December 31, 2011.   Period.  No ifs.  No ands.  No buts.   No dog at my homework.  No 'My Aunt Susie said so".    No 'dude in a forum said so.'

Right at that link is reality.   Neither you, me or the pope know the actual sub numbers.    I've got a model that says player base is in serious decline.   You have nothing to rebutt the model besides made-up forum rumors.

 

As an aside...   I now know by reading the BioWare forums that some geeks have figured out how to take server pops.   And the that 'standard' popluation begins at under 500 players on a server.    So, anyone who plays can, in about five minutes, query the entire server from in game and get pop numbers.   He did this during peak on some of the EU servers last weekend just ended (on March 18th):

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700&page=45

Some EU servers taken last 1.5 hour as Standard:

(S) Legions of Lettow = 1762
(S) Hidde Beks = 1263
(S) Luka Sene = 1251
(S) Basilisk Droid = 1220
(S) Starstorm One = 938
(S) Rogue Moon = 920
(S) Dxun Battle Circle = 778
(S) Hex Droid = 730
(S) Kellian Jarro = 633
(S) Niman = 627
(S) Sluis Shipyards = 624
(S) Chuundar = 583
(S) Bacca's Blade = 578
(S) The Shadow Runner = 510
(S) Kai-kan = 477
 

Also, Tomb of Freedon Nadd was Full with queue at 3500 online.

 

I point this out because  it does, in fact, blow the stupid claim that BioWare increased the caps out of the water.   There was a TEMPORARY increase in some caps for EGA.   They rolled those back on February 4th.   Some people try to understand.  They use facts.   They read financial reports.   They build models and make comparative analysis.   Their arguments are data heavy and driven by the desire to understand what is happening, not deny it and put up smoke screens.    Others just make stuff up.

 

So, when the inevitiable server mergers happen...   Do drop by to explain why...   I'll be kind of curious.  

I've been following that SWTOR thread you have there for quiet a while. You shoul dclarify your comments better. Those numbers are done by doing a /who and getting counts in game, they are not, nor do they represent actual server population numbers. The people who posted those numbers in that thread even stated themselves that they are approximate values and not to be concidered 100% accurate. They are simple samplings taken at a single point in time during a particular day. 

Please make sure if you bring in data like this that you tell what it is, dont try to change them to be something more than they are just to justify your opinions. Thank you.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Cavod

BW releases numbers: It's a lie SWTOR is dieing

EA releases numbers: It's a lie SWTOR is dieing
 

 

No.  That's not true.   They released one number, one time.   It's morons in the "gamer journalism" field who cause the problem.   They're innumare, incompetent and credulous.   Just like this last article.

As for EA/BioWare, they have released numbers one-time and one-time only.   Nothing else.   There was a badly phrased, meaningless quote later on, but EA is a publically traded company.   They must disclose certain things at certain times and they do so through official channels.

You can find EA Investor Relations here:  http://investor.ea.com/financials.cfm

You can see all the press releases and financial information related to SWTOR, along with their other 'important' games, there.   Once and once only did they release numbers and that was on February 1st for the quarter ended December 31, 2011.   Period.  No ifs.  No ands.  No buts.   No dog at my homework.  No 'My Aunt Susie said so".    No 'dude in a forum said so.'

Right at that link is reality.   Neither you, me or the pope know the actual sub numbers.    I've got a model that says player base is in serious decline.   You have nothing to rebutt the model besides made-up forum rumors.

 

As an aside...   I now know by reading the BioWare forums that some geeks have figured out how to take server pops.   And the that 'standard' popluation begins at under 500 players on a server.    So, anyone who plays can, in about five minutes, query the entire server from in game and get pop numbers.   He did this during peak on some of the EU servers last weekend just ended (on March 18th):

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700&page=45

Some EU servers taken last 1.5 hour as Standard:

(S) Legions of Lettow = 1762
(S) Hidde Beks = 1263
(S) Luka Sene = 1251
(S) Basilisk Droid = 1220
(S) Starstorm One = 938
(S) Rogue Moon = 920
(S) Dxun Battle Circle = 778
(S) Hex Droid = 730
(S) Kellian Jarro = 633
(S) Niman = 627
(S) Sluis Shipyards = 624
(S) Chuundar = 583
(S) Bacca's Blade = 578
(S) The Shadow Runner = 510
(S) Kai-kan = 477
 

Also, Tomb of Freedon Nadd was Full with queue at 3500 online.

 

I point this out because  it does, in fact, blow the stupid claim that BioWare increased the caps out of the water.   There was a TEMPORARY increase in some caps for EGA.   They rolled those back on February 4th.   Some people try to understand.  They use facts.   They read financial reports.   They build models and make comparative analysis.   Their arguments are data heavy and driven by the desire to understand what is happening, not deny it and put up smoke screens.    Others just make stuff up.

 

So, when the inevitiable server mergers happen...   Do drop by to explain why...   I'll be kind of curious.  

Originally posted by Khole

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Khole

To be fair 1.3 mil is still being generous. I think its more 500k--1mil at most.

 

SWTOR taking subs from WoW. Best laugh all day.

"Blizzard has said that the launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic has been one of the main reasons behind the drop in subscriber numbers for its flagship MMO, World of Warcraft."

 As far as I got into the article, don't really give two shites. but still this info is coming from Blizzard themeselves.

 

As far as i could tell from the article they are just assuming thats where the playerbase went. They aren't actually sure themselves.

They probably go by their questionaire when you cancel your sub.  It asks if you are leaving for another game and if so which game.

Originally posted by Mephster

Blizzard thinks it is only for the short term but I think that is just ego talking. We'll see!

 

Article - http://www.incgamers.com/News/30814/blizzard-swtor-has-reduced-wow-subscriptions

We will also see which game has gone free-to-play a year from now. Maybe both, maybe neither...

Personally I hope neither since I see more games on the market as a good thing. More choices and such...

Really just don't see the point in threads like this, especially after all this time, and if the people are being truthful, all the people that have left SWTOR, I just don't see the point.

Originally posted by Kaocan

I've been following that SWTOR thread you have there for quiet a while. You shoul dclarify your comments better.

Classic.

Wow isn't going to fail any time soon, not because it is a good game(because it hasn't been that since vanilla)but because people have time invested and established relationships and feel like they'd be walking away from friends and commitments. Swtor isn't a good game either, and I am currently subbed to it and playing it, but its at least as good as WoW and a slight bit different, so I'll stick with it until gw2 comes out. What does that mean for bioware? They sold me a 70 dollar box and probably will end up with 6 monthos of subscription(90ish dollars) fees from me. So that's 160 dollars from me, when I get bored of guildwars and the make an expansion and pick some things and I resub that's more money. Bioware isn't going to hurt from this game(they're going to make money)but they're not going to hurt wow either. 

I hear that if a cricket farts in Guatemala, WoW loses a subscriber.

Originally posted by Cavod

BW releases numbers: It's a lie SWTOR is dieing

EA releases numbers: It's a lie SWTOR is dieing

Competitor credits SWTOR for sub loss: It's a lie SWTOR is dieing


Ya know, I'm not even arguing either way about it, I just think some of you guys need to reevaluate your ways of thinking.

 

WoW has always been and will always be an anomaly, don't fool yourselves into thinking it's the new standard of expectations for every game after it.
 

There's 'success' and then there's 'WoW success'.  Games like Rift and SWTOR are a success.  Hate on. 

    Very well said.  So unusual to see common sense in these forums.

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by agnostic4eve

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Mephster

Blizzard thinks it is only for the short term but I think that is just ego talking. We'll see!

 

Article - http://www.incgamers.com/News/30814/blizzard-swtor-has-reduced-wow-subscriptions

So SWTOR took, what 1.7Mil (what they say) from WoWs 10-11Mil?

Yeah, EA/Bioware really hurt Blizzard

In a few months the hate will switch to GW2 and we'll have 3 games to hate on a grand scale. WoW, SWTOR and GW2. There are lesser games that have hate as well, but it's popular (always has been) to dislike the big boys on the block. 

I already hate GW2 and all credit goes to the mmorpg.com GW2 community for their overzealous attitude and poisonous comments regarding other MMO's mentioned on this site. I wouldn't play GW2 if it was given to me as a gift.

Just being honest...

    +1 to you Sir.  That and the "Hopping House Elves" ran me away.

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Mephster

Blizzard thinks it is only for the short term but I think that is just ego talking. We'll see!

 

Article - http://www.incgamers.com/News/30814/blizzard-swtor-has-reduced-wow-subscriptions

So SWTOR took, what 1.7Mil (what they say) from WoWs 10-11Mil?

Yeah, EA/Bioware really hurt Blizzard

That would be almost all thier North American and Euro players.   I highly doubt WOW has more than 7 million players, 10 million is closer to accounts.     I tried TOR didnt like it, Im over on EVE now.    Thiers a few games that are making out on the exodus from WOW to TOR to something other than TOR.    EQ2 I heard is making out like a bandit also.         

Actually it's more like 3-5 mill last I read any stats on subs for WoW some many months ago.

 

As far as topic goes, same goes with any hyped game and guess what?  People came back to WoW.  Regardless SWTOR isn't going to be keeping those subs in any case.  SWTOR is going to be in Blizz's same shoes in 4-6 months when people leave in droves for GW2, TERA, ArcheAge, TSW, and what else is on the horizon.

Huh?  The last sub number was given out during Activisions last quarter report and it was around 10 million.  Do you mean 3-5 million Western subs?  If so I think that's probably a bit high.  Also they do not include trial accounts or any eastern accounts that hadn't been used in the previous 30 days.  

Originally posted by Trionicus

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Mephster

Blizzard thinks it is only for the short term but I think that is just ego talking. We'll see!

 

Article - http://www.incgamers.com/News/30814/blizzard-swtor-has-reduced-wow-subscriptions

So SWTOR took, what 1.7Mil (what they say) from WoWs 10-11Mil?

Yeah, EA/Bioware really hurt Blizzard

That would be almost all thier North American and Euro players.   I highly doubt WOW has more than 7 million players, 10 million is closer to accounts.     I tried TOR didnt like it, Im over on EVE now.    Thiers a few games that are making out on the exodus from WOW to TOR to something other than TOR.    EQ2 I heard is making out like a bandit also.         

Actually it's more like 3-5 mill last I read any stats on subs for WoW some many months ago.

link? if no proof is provided the statement becomes automatically false

It was that leaked article from China or was some guy that was able to pull info, regardless go use google.  No quote of sub numbers will ever be validated.

This dude really breaks it down in his Blog. I haven't read it in a while but it was something like a progressive dropping of sold copies from BC to WOTLK to CATA. By the time CATA comes out, only 5million copies were sold? Unless bliz has a 100% retention rate then /shrug. He continues the blog with updated info to answer some comments and add data but it's pretty clear that there is nowhere near 10mill players and even less active subs. The calculations were done based on revenue also so this is a best case scenario since the revenue includes things like character transfers, vanity pets, marketing schemes, authenticators, tshirts etc...

So it's very likely that if swtor sold 1.7mill box copies they have less then half of that as active players. Combine that with a faulty unsubscrube button and u can probably make a good case that a significant number of players are very temporary.

bbl

So he is talking about western subs then as those in China don't pay for the client or expansions they only pay for hourly gametime.  Ok I take back my previous post that 3-5 million sounded high for western subs.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Distopia

"Blizzard has said that the launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic has been one of the main reasons behind the drop in subscriber numbers for its flagship MMO, World of Warcraft."

 As far as I got into the article, don't really give two shites. but still this info is coming from Blizzard themeselves.

what you quoted was a summary from the article writer - not blizzard

the actual Blizzard quote said this

Of course people are trying Star Wars – our development team are trying Star Wars," said Lagrave. 

"I’m one of the few people who’s still playing it actually, but yeah we’ve seen a dip in subs. It certainly has to at least be attributable to The Old Republic, but it’s also attributable to people who want to wait and get Mists of Pandaria, so it’s not surprising.

 

They're taking those quotes from an interview he did with Eurogamer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-19-blizzard-acknowledges-star-wars-the-old-republics-impact-on-wow

The dip in World of Warcraft subscriber numbers "has to at least be attributable to [Star Wars] The Old Republic", Blizzard acknowledged, speaking to Eurogamer last week.

Also

"We certainly do look at [where WOW players go], and we have a very smart bunch of guys who do our analytics for us,"

So Blizzard themselves is saying their research is showing that a number of players quit WoW for SWTOR.  It's really not the surprising, the question remains whether those people will eventually go back to WoW or will stick with SWTOR or move on to another game.

I guess this just shows that SWTOR is an easy mode game for casuals as well since it attracted the same crowd.

SWTOR has reduced SWTOR's subscriptions as well.

Originally posted by DaRoamer

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Distopia

"Blizzard has said that the launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic has been one of the main reasons behind the drop in subscriber numbers for its flagship MMO, World of Warcraft."

 As far as I got into the article, don't really give two shites. but still this info is coming from Blizzard themeselves.

what you quoted was a summary from the article writer - not blizzard

the actual Blizzard quote said this

Of course people are trying Star Wars – our development team are trying Star Wars," said Lagrave. 

"I’m one of the few people who’s still playing it actually, but yeah we’ve seen a dip in subs. It certainly has to at least be attributable to The Old Republic, but it’s also attributable to people who want to wait and get Mists of Pandaria, so it’s not surprising.

 

They're taking those quotes from an interview he did with Eurogamer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-19-blizzard-acknowledges-star-wars-the-old-republics-impact-on-wow

The dip in World of Warcraft subscriber numbers "has to at least be attributable to [Star Wars] The Old Republic", Blizzard acknowledged, speaking to Eurogamer last week.

Also

"We certainly do look at [where WOW players go], and we have a very smart bunch of guys who do our analytics for us,"

So Blizzard themselves is saying their research is showing that a number of players quit WoW for SWTOR.  It's really not the surprising, the question remains whether those people will eventually go back to WoW or will stick with SWTOR or move on to another game.

 

Probably every game that has been released in the last few years has caused people to leave WOW.   I know when AOC and Warhammer were released there was a big debate about if it finally meant a dip in WOW subscribers.  But both of those games had a great first month, then lost half their subscribers by the 3rd month.  SWTOR is a better game, but still not that good and is bleeding subs fast.

The big IMPORTANT piece of information though is that WOW lost 1.9M subscribers BEFORE SWTOR was releasted.  WOW did not lost 2M subscribers because of SWTOR..   My personal opinion is that the difficulty of heroics the first 2-3 months are what did most people in.  Because they spent so much time redoing 1-60, there wasn´t much to do at endgame except heroics, which were drastically harder than what most players had been used to at the end o WOTLK.  I don´t think it was as much the difficulty of cata heroics as much as it was the change in the difficulty of heroics that caused problems.  People were used to 20 mins, no wipe, usually no deaths.. to 2 months where most pugs did not get through a dungeon without falling apart.  But again, that is just my opinion and it is based on ´when´the subscriber losses happened, which was a few months after Cata NOT when TOR was released.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

I guess this just shows that SWTOR is an easy mode game for casuals as well since it attracted the same crowd.

Swtor has brought a new meaning to the word easy.

Originally posted by Matt_UK

Originally posted by Kaocan

I've been following that SWTOR thread you have there for quiet a while. You shoul dclarify your comments better.

 

Classic.

Typos are classic? /boggle

Originally posted by kadepsyson

I guess this just shows that SWTOR is an easy mode game for casuals as well since it attracted the same crowd.

Yeah but it still isnt as easy as GW2's P2W scheme.

BW needs to get with the times.

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Originally posted by agnostic4eve

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Originally posted by PyrateLV

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Originally posted by Mephster

Blizzard thinks it is only for the short term but I think that is just ego talking. We'll see!
 
Article - http://www.incgamers.com/News/30814/blizzard-swtor-has-reduced-wow-subscriptions

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So SWTOR took, what 1.7Mil (what they say) from WoWs 10-11Mil?
Yeah, EA/Bioware really hurt Blizzard

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If everyone came from WoW, which I'm sure they did not that would  be 25,483,000.00$ a month. I think that qualifies as a hit, maybe you don't, but I do.
Even if only 700k Subs came from WoW, that's still 10,493,000$ a month. Less if they sub for longer than 1 month at a time because of discounts on multi-month subs, but that also means they have a greater retention number.
To have 1 company lose and another gain that, well, that's a hit, whether you care to admit it or not.
Admit it or not, like or not, SWTOR is making a lot of money. I realize that all the "cool kids" on this site think it's the popular thing to hate the game, but it's making money for Bioware/EA/LA.
In a few months the hate will switch to GW2 and we'll have 3 games to hate on a grand scale. WoW, SWTOR and GW2. There are lesser games that have hate as well, but it's popular (always has been) to dislike the big boys on the block.
 

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its got nothing to do with being the popular thing to do. ppl who were super hyped about the game have said the same things everyone else has been saying. imo this is officially a transitional game. which is fine. EA is good at that. make a ton of cash fast .. and ruin games/franchises/studios at the same time.

im not worried about star wars .. but bioware? lol .. there'd need to be aliens jumping out onto my keyboard for me to buy a ME mmo .. or dragons for DA. They should have stuck to 1p games.