Originally posted by synn

Originally posted by mikahr

1.2 is a /quit time for any serious PvPer

lmao...what are serious pvpers doing in this game in the first place???

Hoping that it would be at least SOME good PvP. guess it was waaaaaay too much

Ilum is scrapped. No ETA. I dont it will happen before expansion.

this is a good thing because llum needs to be redone. it was a failure from the start.

Its good thing that Ilum was soooooo bad they had to scrape it entirely? Its a sad day when you claim "its good thing they scrapped it because it was so BAD.

The things they are doing in "balancing" are really amazing...in a bad sense.

1. Buffing already OP class

2. Not touching already OP class

3. Nerfing already weak classes

4. Killing 1 class (unless heal specced) - by their own words lol - spec heal or bust

 what classes are you talking about for number 1-3???? I'm guessing you're talking about the scoundrel/agent for number 4.

1. Marauder/sentinel

2. Assassin/Shadow

3.Sorcerer/Sage Merc/Commando Scoundrel/Operative DPS trees

4. Scoundrel/Operative instead of fixing it they kill it, just like Ilum

 

It really doesnt look well. Especially with ranked WZs on the horizon.

My question is...are they making these changes based on PVP play or PVE?  If it's PVP...well here we see the inherent problem of trying to balance an MMORPG that has both PVE and PVP, something suffers.  If it's PVE...they are definitely in the wrong, they should be redoing the entire enemy AI and how mobs react.  Ah well.

---

Originally posted by hikaru77

---

Originally posted by sookster54
 

---

Originally posted by Chrisbox
Why dont you all stop complaining until you ACTUALLY play 1.2? The pvp on the PTS is alot more balanced now.

---

How many people actually has a level 50 (with gear even) on the PTS, reason why the past patches weren't properly tested (even devs said this) was due to lack of feedback which was due to lack of participating players. They need to implement character copy or instant 50.
 

---

LoL. They have a character copy on the 1.2 pts. Actually  the big guilds (with their toons geared) was copied in the pts to test the new endgame and pvp content. But i guess is more easy to ¨hate¨ than do some search. 

---

There's no reason PvP and PvE should be balanced together, just separate the mechanics.  One day a developer will separate the two (isn't GW2 doing this?).

Haha at DPS Operatives poor guys have been nerfed with almost every patch and they aren't even doing dps worth a crap.

Originally posted by elocke

My question is...are they making these changes based on PVP play or PVE?  If it's PVP...well here we see the inherent problem of trying to balance an MMORPG that has both PVE and PVP, something suffers.  If it's PVE...they are definitely in the wrong, they should be redoing the entire enemy AI and how mobs react.  Ah well.

Thats a 1mil dollar question because changes seem random and dont fit any particular pattern, or aimed at something - DPS classes with highest DPS getting buffs, classes with lowest DPS getting nerfs.

Originally posted by eddieg50

Nerfs happen cause developer does research and feels one or more classes are either over powered or under- Nothing strange or unusual there. People get upset because they are used to their character being over powered and want to keep it that way

This

OK... as someone who has a LvL 50 full T2/T3 equipped Mercenary (heal), Assassin (tank) and a Sniper I went to the testserver to look at the stuff they're doing. And yes I've had my characters transfered to the PTS.

Assassin tank didn't change at all. Sniper got some overall Crit reduced, which is ok, but...

the Mercenary healer... OMG!

Let me tell you. The Merc healer allready got some issues with heat in hardmode OPs, especially when it was about healing the group instead of only the tank. And you need to do massive AoE-healing in the OPs. That's the reason we go with two Sorc healers instead, especially as they don't run out of might currently with the right use of skills/rotations.
Now on the PTS, the Merc healer has even more heat-issues and it'll be hard allready to heal hardmode FPs with the changes. The boni for the Kolto Missile got cut in half, Rapid Scan after using Healing Scan now costs 8 more heat, and Kolto Shell now coststs 16 more heat, aswell as Supercharged gas now only venting 8 instead of 16 heat.
You run hot 1/3 faster with the new changes and you do 5-10% less healing due to the Kolto Residue changes.

Seriously, the Merc healer totally lost it's capabilty of raid-healing and I allready farm DD-equip, as I'll change after 1.2 hits the live-server due to these changes.

Marauders got even stronger with the current PTS-build as they now have two viable hard hitting talenttrees, while Operatives got nerfed even further. Juggernauts can't do 50/50 tank/DD specs anymore, due to re-arrangements of the talentrees, so they got the shaft aswell.

It's sad to see, that this patch won't rebalance anything actually but instead imbalance the PvE even more.

New hardmode raid-setup will be: 1 Assassin main-tank (still best tank overall due to 60% shield), 2 Sorc heals (only viable healer due to AoE-healing-capabilities), 1 Jugg offtank (mediocre tank/DPS, but 20% armor-debuff), 2 Marauders (high DPS and bloodthirst), 1 Sniper (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff), 1 Merc DD (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff).
Everything else will not be optimal, especially with the goal to do the nightmare-modes for T4-equip.

WOW....this is mindblowing...ppl still play this game?

Originally posted by Vidir

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Why dont you all stop complaining until you ACTUALLY play 1.2? The pvp on the PTS is alot more balanced now.

 People are actually complaining about the pvp harming this game as it has dunn to all other games the past 10 years or so.

Want to know why I think GW2 is screwed from day 1. Anyone quiting any 1 of several pve focused themeparks out say they are quiting because of pvp and going to GW2. Pvp'rs are the bane of develeopers existence in the genre right now. They ruin every single game they touch like a disease.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by synn

Originally posted by mikahr

1.2 is a /quit time for any serious PvPer

lmao...what are serious pvpers doing in this game in the first place???

Hoping that it would be at least SOME good PvP. guess it was waaaaaay too much

Ilum is scrapped. No ETA. I dont it will happen before expansion.

this is a good thing because llum needs to be redone. it was a failure from the start.

Its good thing that Ilum was soooooo bad they had to scrape it entirely? Its a sad day when you claim "its good thing they scrapped it because it was so BAD.

The things they are doing in "balancing" are really amazing...in a bad sense.

1. Buffing already OP class

2. Not touching already OP class

3. Nerfing already weak classes

4. Killing 1 class (unless heal specced) - by their own words lol - spec heal or bust

 what classes are you talking about for number 1-3???? I'm guessing you're talking about the scoundrel/agent for number 4.

1. Marauder/sentinel

2. Assassin/Shadow

3.Sorcerer/Sage Merc/Commando Scoundrel/Operative DPS trees

4. Scoundrel/Operative instead of fixing it they kill it, just like Ilum

 

It really doesnt look well. Especially with ranked WZs on the horizon.

Granted I haven't been following the SWTOR forums in about a month (Has much changed since patch 1.1?) but I have never seen anyone claim that marauder/sentinel were op (or Assassin/Shadow for that matter).  All of the complaints I ever saw about op were Sorcerer/Mage being OP.

Originally posted by Puremallace

 

Pvp'rs are the bane of develeopers existence in the genre right now. They ruin every single game they touch like a disease.

Well it's obvious the OP things his Op[erative] is OP when he is doing Op[eration]s witch his guild.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Puremallace

 

Pvp'rs are the bane of develeopers existence in the genre right now. They ruin every single game they touch like a disease.

 

 

That's because they bolt the PvP on at the end once they have made the game and try to fix it as they go along, breaking the PvE game thy made in the first place. I wish they would design them properly from the ground up.

Thats pretty much the point. It seems Ilum was slapped on in day or two before launch (since nobody in beta has ever seen it ti seems).

Mind boggling is that game is at a quite good place balance wise atm, no big interference needed (but still some twekas adjusements needed) and they decide to "balance the classes" imbalncing it totally in the process *shrug*

Maybe they figure it out by the time expansion is out, but i for sure am not going to feed em 15$/month to juggle with the game for no apparent reason.

*there are already skills that work differently in PvP and PvE, i wonder why dont they do that with more skills and not screw everyone

Oh, wow! People say sins are OP (coz of cloack of shadows, their only defensive CD) and sorcs/mercs are fine (totally balanced class with no weaknesses / magic missile spammer, btw their magic missile got nerfed by about 10% so people will have to do more than hit 1 button, oh dear its hard but I'm sure they'll manage), back to good ol' swtor forums full of trolls who play sorcs (and mercs). Also, ever tried not soloing with operative? Some people say they are awesome when they duo with other stealth or ranged class.

Anyway patch is fine, actually it seems 1.2 is what the "release" of swtor should've looked like, but shEAt wanted to earn money AND have some free testing, greedy b...

p.s. Ilum sucked, most boring sheep pen one can ever imagine, it was only good for imps who got tired of endless huttballs.

Originally posted by Vesper11

Oh, wow! People say sins are OP (coz of cloack of shadows, their only defensive CD) and sorcs/mercs are fine (totally balanced class with no weaknesses / magic missile spammer, btw their magic missile got nerfed by about 10% so people will have to do more than hit 1 button, oh dear its hard but I'm sure they'll manage), back to good ol' swtor forums full of trolls who play sorcs (and mercs). Also, ever tried not soloing with operative? Some people say they are awesome when they duo with other stealth or ranged class.

Anyway patch is fine, actually it seems 1.2 is what the "release" of swtor should've looked like, but shEAt wanted to earn money AND have some free testing, greedy b...

p.s. Ilum sucked, most boring sheep pen one can ever imagine, it was only good for imps who got tired of endless huttballs.

A geared Mara is already the best 1v1 class in the game.

---

Originally posted by Yalexy
OK... as someone who has a LvL 50 full T2/T3 equipped Mercenary (heal), Assassin (tank) and a Sniper I went to the testserver to look at the stuff they're doing. And yes I've had my characters transfered to the PTS.

Assassin tank didn't change at all. Sniper got some overall Crit reduced, which is ok, but...

the Mercenary healer... OMG!

Let me tell you. The Merc healer allready got some issues with heat in hardmode OPs, especially when it was about healing the group instead of only the tank. And you need to do massive AoE-healing in the OPs. That's the reason we go with two Sorc healers instead, especially as they don't run out of might currently with the right use of skills/rotations.
Now on the PTS, the Merc healer has even more heat-issues and it'll be hard allready to heal hardmode FPs with the changes. The boni for the Kolto Missile got cut in half, Rapid Scan after using Healing Scan now costs 8 more heat, and Kolto Shell now coststs 16 more heat, aswell as Supercharged gas now only venting 8 instead of 16 heat.
You run hot 1/3 faster with the new changes and you do 5-10% less healing due to the Kolto Residue changes.

Seriously, the Merc healer totally lost it's capabilty of raid-healing and I allready farm DD-equip, as I'll change after 1.2 hits the live-server due to these changes.

Marauders got even stronger with the current PTS-build as they now have two viable hard hitting talenttrees, while Operatives got nerfed even further. Juggernauts can't do 50/50 tank/DD specs anymore, due to re-arrangements of the talentrees, so they got the shaft aswell.

It's sad to see, that this patch won't rebalance anything actually but instead imbalance the PvE even more.

New hardmode raid-setup will be: 1 Assassin main-tank (still best tank overall due to 60% shield), 2 Sorc heals (only viable healer due to AoE-healing-capabilities), 1 Jugg offtank (mediocre tank/DPS, but 20% armor-debuff), 2 Marauders (high DPS and bloodthirst), 1 Sniper (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff), 1 Merc DD (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff).
Everything else will not be optimal, especially with the goal to do the nightmare-modes for T4-equip.

---

---

Originally posted by Scypheroth
WOW....this is mindblowing...ppl still play this game?

---

Originally posted by mikahr

3. Nerfing already weak classes

3.Sorcerer/Sage Merc/Commando

made me laugh

Originally posted by sookster54 w

 

 

Originally posted by Scypheroth
WOW....this is mindblowing...ppl still play this game?

---

Not really, sub ran out on monday and I didn't renew. Honestly devs don't know wtf they're doing.

 

Not really?  Guess you don't speak for everyone, do you?  

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Elsabolts

I would say alot of folks complained enough that some classes were op'ed and in come the nerf's. Happens every game some sooner then later.

Yes and it's a shame that devs don't stand their ground against the PVP whiners. That or make skills that are PVP specific so that the nerf hammer doesn't affect players who don't PVP.

Yes and it's a shame that devs don't stand their ground against the PVE whiners.  

The sheer volume of changes & their severity means they did a piss-poor job of balance for launch, I'm not convinced that's the case.

The way I see it is that content was criticised as being too easy, they decided to change their design philosophy & tighten up the content & make it much harder, these raft of balance changes indicate a bigger change in direction of the game than the developers are communicating to the players.

This kind of "setting the difficulty" is something that should have been decided upon pre-launch & during the beta phase, to push through a radical change of direction so early, when the game is bleeding out subs left & right is a huge gamble, it will either save the game's integrity or be the final nail in the coffin, but what is certain is that an awful lot of players are going to get really pissed off & are being told to swallow it.

I'm pretty certain they will regret this change of direction at this stage, I think it will backfire & while they think they are saving the game who will it be they will save it for? A tiny niche is who. They did not get the success they were after, this won't get it them either, simple truth is they wasted too much money on voicing every tiny little quest & did not invest enough in the endgame content that retains players, they banked on players recycling content playing alts, they have some of that, but the bigger audience was not interested in that.

Time will tell if they are shooting themselves in the foot or not, but I think they are.