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Originally posted by BadSpock
Have fun wasting your money every 2 weeks!

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I don't mind wasting money to have fun playing games.

I don't mind a pvp game where gear is irrelevant.

I don't mind a cash shop instead of rmt gold sellers.

I don't mind that casual skilled players can gank no lifers that spend 24/7 playing.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Yes, because what is to guarantee that some up and coming guild on my new server won't start doing this right after I move?

Really think ya'll are blowing this way out of proportion.

Besides, as someone else just said, you can spend all the $ you want in W v W you still need to actually play and not be a nub to get the supply to actually do stuff.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1237209&postcount=1013

Some more common sense.

Damn, ran out of popcorn I need some pizza.

Originally posted by The_ember

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by The_ember

Does anybody actually KNOW that you can buy PvP supplies with gold yet? Has it been confirmed either way?

 

 

Anyway, something that alot of people are glossing over when banging on about bots, NOWHERE in that blog did it say you would be able to convert gems back to real money. Which means, at the most, bots would be able to farm cosmetic items for their account... it's unlikely Anet would make a system where people can convert gems back to money, since that would (as many have said) encourage botting and leave the game a little bit of a mess, since everyone and their dog will just be hoping to make some cash off it.

So yes, you will be able to BUY in game gold, from other players, with gems that they can then use to buy cosmetic/cash shop items. But it DOESN'T say they will be able to convert those gems back to real world cash to actually make money from playing/botting.

If botters buy gems with gold when prices are low and sell for gold when prices go up, then sell that gold to players directly, they can indeed profit.

 

True, didn't think of it like that, although it's actually a BETTER situation than other games when it comes to combating bots, since they'd basically have to get consistently lucky with the economy in order to profit. Would they not just go for selling the gold they've farmed in the first place?

After the first few months, yes, I believe they would simply sell directly, undercutting by a small amount current exchange prices.  And also stealing accounts left and right, of course, but they do that anyway.

Like I said, I can live with it (barely) in pve.  Maybe, depending on how easy it is to get gear I can pve and pvp in without dealing with a real money inflated auction house.  But this is going to be horrible if it can affect WvWvW.

Originally posted by 2D34DLY4U

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Originally posted by BadSpock
Have fun wasting your money every 2 weeks!

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I don't mind wasting money to have fun playing games.

I don't mind a pvp game where gear is irrelevant.

I don't mind a cash shop instead of rmt gold sellers.

I don't mind that casual skilled players can gank no lifers that spend 24/7 playing.

And that is your right!

He was right too, some guilds probably will spend $ for each and every 2 week battle in W v W.

Maybe they'll win a lot... and then they'll be put against other servers that win a lot and they'll probably lose a bit too.

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Originally posted by Madimorga

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Originally posted by BadSpock

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Originally posted by Madimorga

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Originally posted by BadSpock


So let them. Who cares?
They'll be playing each other all the time and the rest of us will be playing each other.
Get stuck on a home server doing this? Move.

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It will cost money to move and there will be a delay, which is as it should be.  However, if I have to pay money to move to a new home server because cheeseheads with too much money ruined pvp, I'm going to be pissed, as well I should be.  This should not be allowed to happen.  I'm willing to compromise on the pve, but about pvp?  For the first time in many months I'm considering not buying this game.

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So the one time fee of probably 15$ is going to prevent you from playing a game you would otherwise enjoy... a game with no monthyl fee of 15$ that would pay for itself after 4 months when compared to a sub game?

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Yes, because what is to guarantee that some up and coming guild on my new server won't start doing this right after I move?

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That makes it work in your favour, it's server v server, if there are guilds on yours that spend money then you have the advantage, if people aren't spending money then you just need to wait until your server gets matched against another who aren't spending money to gain an advantage. Do we know that the only way to get blueprints is via gold? Maybe they'll drop? we know players drop loot from a table it could be they are also included in that, if that's the case then the advantage becomes less.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by austriacus

Originally posted by Madimorga

If I led a big WvWvW pvp guild, the first thing I'd be doing is stocking up on gems, some as an investment for later in hopes prices go up, some to use as soon as the first botters...I mean players...offer gold on the market (As someone already pointed out, gem prices will probably go up, meaning gold sellers could directly trade their gold for gems at first and still expect to turn a profit later by exchanging them for more gold than they paid, then selling that gold directly to players willing to step outside the gem system).

 

Next I'd rush everyone to max level as fast as possible for the advantages having all skills gives.  Even if it's only a small advantage, 50 people working together with that advantage against 50 who don't have it are going to have a very easy time of pvp. (Note:  this is going to happen regardless of the currency system in game, it's just standard pvp guild behavior, but if in any way gems traded for gold quickens or eases the process, guilds will take advantage.)

 

Now my guild can buy siege engines and other pvp advantages with gold that I got, not by taking the time to farm it up as we leveled, but by trading it for gems bought with real money!  Jackpot!

This scenario is disgraceful.  If it's true that pvp equipment can be bought with gold, WvWvW will be all about wallet wars.

You are either naive or really dumb. In most games the top wolrd pvp guilds always buy their way to the top or farm it to death.

The dif here is that while this may be noticeable at the beggining it will fade away it the end since the power plateu is really low.

The difference is, I had actually hoped that the Buy to Play system would encourage ANet/NCSoft to harshly enforce perma-bans against RMT buyers as well as sellers, making this much less of a problem than it is in sub games.

Maybe I am naive.

Doesn't mean I want to see pvp ruined.

i think we're safe. firstly because i think that skill is going to be more important than seige equipment. second because even if they can buy all the seige equipment, they can't buy the supply to build it (you only buy blueprints with gold, not the materials to build them). and lastly even if, somehow, these servers do scrounge up some advantage that can't be broken with skill or capped with lack of supply, the servers get paired up based on previous wins/losses so the fight will always be fairish.

We can come up with ways that gold sellers might try to game this system, but I'm thinking that most people who might be willing to pay cash for in game gold are going to be much more likely to "legally" buy and sell gems, rather than risk losing their account by buying "illegally" from a gold seller! Or face the risk of being ripped off or having credit card information stolen by unscrupulous gold sellers. (Is there any other kind)? Risk is it's own cost and needs to be factored into the price of something.

The concern SHOULD be about the competitive PvP, the eSport type Conquest instanced stuff.

I don't get why so much concern over WvW and PvE - which are both highly determined by player population > anything else.

And I really don't think it's going to be the equivalent of buying the newest Arena Season set on day 1 of the new season in WoW.

It's going to be more like buying the looks of two seasons ago to transmog over your gear to look cooler.

Originally posted by fiontar

I was sceptical about PLEX in Eve, but it seems to have worked out, even though unlimited currency can indeed be converted into greater power. With GW2, I just don't see what one would buy to unbalance the game.

Thats the beauty of the PLEX system. There is no unlimited currency.

The system doesn't create gold. You can only buy gold that is already in the market. In GW2 the influx of gold is limited, since it's mostly earned through DEs, and those cannot be farmed at will, they happen at a given speed. That means there is supply and demand.

Since there is supply and demand, flooding the market with gems will just make them worthless. Which is what I hope for, so I can buy my additional character slot for a few lousy gold pieces ;)

Originally posted by adam_nox

Originally posted by 2D34DLY4U

It's basically the best possible system and makes total sense, I applaud ArenaNet for having the courage to apply EVE PLEX system on their MMO. Has pros and cons but it's the best the industry has come up with so far.

That said...incoming community reaction!!!

I love the smell of fresh fanboy charred corpses in the afternoon :)

Burn, fanbabies, burn.

I think you may be confused.  fanboys defend everything a company does.

 

The best system is a subscription fee.  Cash shops are simply an attempt to get more than 15 bucks per player per month on average.

It's almost like it was quoted from the manual on how to fleece gamers.  The corporate overmind approves.

Originally posted by BadSpock

The concern SHOULD be about the competitive PvP, the eSport type Conquest instanced stuff.

I don't get why so much concern over WvW and PvE - which are both highly determined by player population > anything else.

 

And I really don't think it's going to be the equivalent of buying the newest Arena Season set on day 1 of the new season in WoW.

It's going to be more like buying the looks of two seasons ago to transmog over your gear to look cooler.

No concern here, we already know instanced PVP has everyone on an even playing field. It's something they've said repeatedly.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Madimorga

Yes, because what is to guarantee that some up and coming guild on my new server won't start doing this right after I move?

Really think ya'll are blowing this way out of proportion.

Besides, as someone else just said, you can spend all the $ you want in W v W you still need to actually play and not be a nub to get the supply to actually do stuff.

This game was supposed to be about an even playing field for pvp as far as gear and equipment were concerned.  Even WvWvW is supposed to be even, once a player reaches max level and does a tiny amount of gearing up.  That was the whole point.  No one's wallet should change that.

Originally posted by atticusbc

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by austriacus

Originally posted by Madimorga

If I led a big WvWvW pvp guild, the first thing I'd be doing is stocking up on gems, some as an investment for later in hopes prices go up, some to use as soon as the first botters...I mean players...offer gold on the market (As someone already pointed out, gem prices will probably go up, meaning gold sellers could directly trade their gold for gems at first and still expect to turn a profit later by exchanging them for more gold than they paid, then selling that gold directly to players willing to step outside the gem system).

 

Next I'd rush everyone to max level as fast as possible for the advantages having all skills gives.  Even if it's only a small advantage, 50 people working together with that advantage against 50 who don't have it are going to have a very easy time of pvp. (Note:  this is going to happen regardless of the currency system in game, it's just standard pvp guild behavior, but if in any way gems traded for gold quickens or eases the process, guilds will take advantage.)

 

Now my guild can buy siege engines and other pvp advantages with gold that I got, not by taking the time to farm it up as we leveled, but by trading it for gems bought with real money!  Jackpot!

This scenario is disgraceful.  If it's true that pvp equipment can be bought with gold, WvWvW will be all about wallet wars.

You are either naive or really dumb. In most games the top wolrd pvp guilds always buy their way to the top or farm it to death.

The dif here is that while this may be noticeable at the beggining it will fade away it the end since the power plateu is really low.

The difference is, I had actually hoped that the Buy to Play system would encourage ANet/NCSoft to harshly enforce perma-bans against RMT buyers as well as sellers, making this much less of a problem than it is in sub games.

Maybe I am naive.

Doesn't mean I want to see pvp ruined.

i think we're safe. firstly because i think that skill is going to be more important than seige equipment. second because even if they can buy all the seige equipment, they can't buy the supply to build it (you only buy blueprints with gold, not the materials to build them). and lastly even if, somehow, these servers do scrounge up some advantage that can't be broken with skill or capped with lack of supply, the servers get paired up based on previous wins/losses so the fight will always be fairish.

Exactly. You can't buy Supply with any currency and any servers that become dominant for any reason will just end up facing other such servers. I expect over a hundred servers around launch time, so it's very unlikely that any one server will become an undisputed juggernaught by any means.

Lots of good info in this thread... thanks! Glad to know ANet appears to be on the ball with MTs.

Originally posted by The_ember

Originally posted by BadSpock

The concern SHOULD be about the competitive PvP, the eSport type Conquest instanced stuff.

I don't get why so much concern over WvW and PvE - which are both highly determined by player population > anything else.

And I really don't think it's going to be the equivalent of buying the newest Arena Season set on day 1 of the new season in WoW.

It's going to be more like buying the looks of two seasons ago to transmog over your gear to look cooler.

No concern here, we already know instanced PVP has everyone on an even playing field. It's something they've said repeatedly.

Level wise yes, even playing field, but gear wise?

Consumables like potions or short term buffs etc.?

I don't mean to be ignorant I just don't know exactly how far the "even playing field" extends in the instanced PvP.

Originally posted by BadSpock

The concern SHOULD be about the competitive PvP, the eSport type Conquest instanced stuff.

I don't get why so much concern over WvW and PvE - which are both highly determined by player population > anything else.

 

And I really don't think it's going to be the equivalent of buying the newest Arena Season set on day 1 of the new season in WoW.

It's going to be more like buying the looks of two seasons ago to transmog over your gear to look cooler.

I'm absent for a few months and still the RMT debate ensues?! ;)

I agree though. Too much concern is placed at what may/may not be a potential loss from this and not enough placed on the actual spirit of the competition nature of WvW.

Besides, too much speculation on how people 'believe' it'll work instead of seeing it when it's actually out and working/not working out.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by The_ember

Originally posted by BadSpock

The concern SHOULD be about the competitive PvP, the eSport type Conquest instanced stuff.

I don't get why so much concern over WvW and PvE - which are both highly determined by player population > anything else.

And I really don't think it's going to be the equivalent of buying the newest Arena Season set on day 1 of the new season in WoW.

It's going to be more like buying the looks of two seasons ago to transmog over your gear to look cooler.

No concern here, we already know instanced PVP has everyone on an even playing field. It's something they've said repeatedly.

Level wise yes, even playing field, but gear wise?

Consumables like potions or short term buffs etc.?

I don't mean to be ignorant I just don't know exactly how far the "even playing field" extends in the instanced PvP.

Gear in structured PVP is standardized, all skills are unlocked, trait points can be reset freely, there are no consumables or buffs besides what the professions bring.

Can't get more even than that.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by The_ember

Originally posted by BadSpock

The concern SHOULD be about the competitive PvP, the eSport type Conquest instanced stuff.

I don't get why so much concern over WvW and PvE - which are both highly determined by player population > anything else.

And I really don't think it's going to be the equivalent of buying the newest Arena Season set on day 1 of the new season in WoW.

It's going to be more like buying the looks of two seasons ago to transmog over your gear to look cooler.

No concern here, we already know instanced PVP has everyone on an even playing field. It's something they've said repeatedly.

Level wise yes, even playing field, but gear wise?

Consumables like potions or short term buffs etc.?

I don't mean to be ignorant I just don't know exactly how far the "even playing field" extendes in the instnaced PvP.

From the GW2 Wiki whilst I try to find the Dev quote:

"Will there be UAX, unlock of all skills and items, for PvP players?

It has been stated that a character which is taken into Structured PvP will be given fixed level, and have access to the same set of skills, items, and professions as other players."

EDIT: From the GW2 Blog on PVP

"When a player takes a character into PvP, they are granted access to all the necessary skills, items, etc. Characters are set to the maximum level, putting everyone on an even playing field. This makes player skill more important than time invested in a particular character. When you take your character back to the PvE environment, you return to the skills and gear you had there, but the game will save your last PvP setup. You'll also be able to store templates for builds. This way, you can try out new stuff in PvP but still easily return to your familiar builds."

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/pvp-overview/

Originally posted by Xerith

D3 you can sell armor, weapons, all sorts of stuff, and if it is anything like D2 then there will be legendary type equipment that can make you godlike essentially. GW2 has none of that and instead is stuff like new outfits, probably dyes, things like that. 

I wouldn't even mind them having gear in there unlike most the whiners. You want to grind and farm your gear then you can. Or you have the option of farming up gold and buying gems for the gear you want. Or spending real money. Sounds like its fair. Its not P2W either as some of the morons would claim as it is gear that you can get in game without spending money. For me the system seems perfectly fine. If it was P2W then it would be gear that you can only get one way and thats cash shop.