Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by Shakes420

The player base loves to say that the gaming companies are all about greed, but aren't we being just as selfish by wanting every game catered specifically for us (sand/theme, group/solo, etc).

I don't think this is really the case.

The only thing these games cater to is the companies who released them.

Most of us would be happy with a game that just delivers most of what it's supposed to.

And thats why developers are taking to Kickstarter to make the games they and the fans want to play and not marketing analysis and trends and the lowest common denominator  and mass market appeal, developers are there to make games and they want take control back of their creative visions for these games instead of having a suit tell them how to make it or they dont get funded... screw em if it takes real gamers to fund games guess it will be that way...

Originally posted by oubers

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by smh_alot
@Creslin: While I agree with some points you make, I disagree with others. SWTOR DID do several new things or what hadn't been done in that way beforehand: companions, the way of crafting, cover system and most importantly the way it handled the questing process. Only those were often features and distinction that a number of MMO gamers don't really care about, so to them those distinctions don't count since they aren't about the features or direction that they're interested in.

 

For the rest, I think it's all about expectations: strio all bias aside and dislikes for themepark MMO gameplay etc, and SWTOR ranks among the better themepark MMORPG's with its own good and bad points. It's ok. However, people expected something spectacular with the Bioware-Star Wars-big budget combination or to some after they themselves had a good time in SWG. From that point of view SWTOR how it turned out could only disappoint to them.

 

I also disagree with the whole idea that some have that some games need to fail in order for other games, the kind they like, to be successful. I blame it on WoW that some MMO gamers have developed that kind of warped looking at things. Personally I think that several very different types of MMO's can be very successful next to eachother, and I hope that after this year is done, this point will be proven.

STO did companions before SWTOR, and I think STO does it better too

You get Bridge Officers which help you on your ship, and join you on away missions, and then you get Duty Officers which you send off on Missions, getting you XP and stuff.

dont talk about STO like THAT is a good game m8.....i played it for 15 minutes B4 i quit it out of boredom.......and that says alot from a guy who still enjoys swtor right?

Yeah yeah i hear ya....how can you know anything from 15 minutes on gameplay???? SWTOR got me from the moment the story starts (the yellow letters :p ) and still loving it.

 

I did not say that STO was better than SWTOR in that post, only companions, and it was my opinion. All Bioware need to do is be able to let us change the names of our companions, and then they will be more special to us, instead of us all running around with the same characters, and will make the game seem more of MMO than a single player game.

If you are still loving SWTOR then you must not be at 50 yet?

STO is still a decent game to play, and to play while SWTOR gets updated and expanded, and you can usually find people a lot more easier than in SWTOR, and doing mass PvE space battles with other players is awesome, and takes only a minute or two for enough players to join and get going. It even beats SWG on this, which caused the game to get extremely laggy when they brought in GCW2 after the shutdown announcement. There is a space update Bioware are working on, and hopefully making space more multiplayer and open like STO / SWG will then crush STO

I like SWTOR, I am a fan of it, but is meant to be a P2P MMO, where you want to play and sub constantly, not play through the story and feel that is it, but there is not enough content to make that happen and be worth it, for now. I am taking the game slowly, and subbed up to the end of Jan, and have now just resubbed again, for 60 days, to secure Founders title, and check out 1.2. I will probably quit again in 2 months, and probably return again late Dec.

After playing STO recently, most of it felt like a waste of time playing in the first year, as the game now is more solid, and more things to do, and glad I did not play STO more initially and just carried on playing SWG. eg When STO first released missions had you click on Beam to another ship, and you would be intsantly transported to the other ship, now you get to go to the transporter room and beam down from there. It is only small thing, which makes for a better experience, and if you played it loads to begin with (which I did not) I doubt I would have levelled up more characters just to experience that.

The hate on SWTOR is a result of so many feelings in one bag.

You have the closing of SWG, Hero engine, broken promises, quick solutions to pvp, beeing lied to/false advertising, all the hype, mediocricy of the gameplay and so on, with all this emotions run high when talking about the game, it starts off with the disappointment that the game was so far from the second coming we thought it would be and then adds whatever other reason in to the mix like mentioned earlier and voila you have another swtor post.

"wow the structure of the sentences and the grammar is so off here and i just can't bother fixing it,"

What sort of broken promises and false advertisiing are you referring to?

There are a few reasons why i dont like SWTOR..

1. Its one giagantic waste of the Star Wars IP.

2. Graphics and animation are below par.

3. Basically a single player game.

4. Hutt Ball... WTF

5. Super easy mode game..

6. Somehow they managed to brake the Hero Engine.. as the engine itself is really pretty good and has everything an MMO, yet somehow Bioware broke it.

Actually could get pretty big haha but at the end of the day the game is not for me, sure i bashed it a few times when it first came out but each to their own, I am sure some people like it.

Originally posted by Saerain

What sort of broken promises and false advertisiing are you referring to?

We're giving you 100 v. 100 player (working) PvP on Ilum;

"Living Breathing World";

"Your choices in your story will have an impact."

"There will be end-game content."

Etc., etc.

It just never worked for me.

When the game was about to come out I decided to roll a tank. Thought that would be usefull - it never was. Raids could be facerolled with a lot of dps and some healers. And when we got even better gear, 8man started to be 3-4 man runs just for fun. The second raid (not EV) was a total waste of time completely, so after one run I didn't even bother. 

The pvp was good. Really. Huttball was kinda interesting, just because I've never seen something like this. But there was a clearly seen domination of Empire side. Well, at least when it was Empire vs Empire it was kinda fun.

In conlusion... It was fun for a month. Then I just decided to leave. Although now I'm quite curious, how my guild is doing and basically now I'm waiting for some other MMOs to come out, so I'm kinda bored. Have to kill the thought inside my head to buy one more month.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Man...this game is controversial.  I don't think I can remember another game where the forums were STILL hopping with "this game is awesome" vs. "this game is the spawn of El Diablo!" threads almost three months after release.

The craziest thing is that this game really isn't all that bad.  I mean, there are games that fall into the category of the truly terrible like Stronghold 3 or the new Duke Nukem.  But then there are games that are just...okay.  Not particularly good, and not particulary bad just...okay.  SWTOR surely falls into the latter category.  For an MMORPG it is relatively polished and offers a fairly complete experience from day 1.

Crazier still though, even realizing this, I am definitely in the group of people that are negative about SWTOR.  So, in an effort to clear up some of the misunderstandings and arguments constantly swarming around this game, I wanted to provide you with why I, personally, feel the way I do.  Because I really believe that many others share my viewpoints, but it doesn't always come across that way.

My feelings toward SWTOR have absolutely nothing to do with the money I spent on it.  I have spent money on much crappier things and not complained.  My feelings stem from the fact that I really, genuinely care about my MMORPG hobby, and I feel like SWTOR is just dragging it further down a terrible direction.

First, You see, if you look at the progression of the "themepark" MMO sub-genre from EQ to early WoW to late WoW and now to SWTOR, you will notice something.  Each iteration became more about single player.  

EQ was all about playing with other people, maybe even too far in this direction, at least where some classes were concerned.  In early WoW you could group, but soloing was much more viable and even preferable due to the quest system.  Late WoW, there is so much phasing that grouping isn't much of an option when doing quests, and most of the grouping is done through automated matchmaking tools like dungeon finder.  Finally, SWTOR takes the "single player" thing to an even greater extreme by heavily sharding all their zones, putting instances everywhere, and putting a laser focus on a scripted "story" that (I think) encourages single player...not to mention making a supposedly major part of the SW universe (space) into a single player minigame.

Second, SWTOR is extremely derivative of WoW.  I mean, maybe even moreso than games like Rift and WAR.  And once again, I'm tired of games just rehashing old concepts.  I want a game that at least tries to do something new.  If SWTOR came out and was still "just okay" but tried a lot of new concepts...then I don't think it would have got nearly as much negativity.

Third, SWTOR is one of the most linear games I have ever played.  You hardly have any freedom in where you go when you level, and it just feels like you are being dragged on a leash the whole time.  I get that they had to make a lot of story for each faction and each class...but the end result is that playing through any one class feels extremely linear.

Finally...all this said, I know these are just my opinions, and I know that SWTOR, taken for what it is, is not a terrible game.  If you are enjoying TOR, then great...keep having fun.  I don't want SWTOR to completely fail and go F2P...but I DO want it to at least decrease in subs to the point of say, Rift.  Because if SWTOR is a shining success then what does that tell the industry?  They can keep making derivative, highly single-player, linear MMORPGs, and we will buy them up.  And if you don't believe that the success of a game has an impact on the industry, please look at exhibit A:

Everquest, AO, DAoC -> WoW -> AoC, WAR, Rift, Allods, SWTOR, ...

 

Well said, OP.   What I like about this thread, is it seems the hate is not as strong and instead its a more productive conversation about SWTOR.   Maybe,a s a group, we are evolving as forum users.

The hate comes from a AAA Studio(Bioware) with nearly unlimited funding($200+ mil) and one of the biggest IPs of all time made one of the most underwhelming MMOs in recent history. 

Let's be honest, the game isn't even worth being called a WoW clone.   The truth is, if they had launched with even 85% of WoWs features, many would be satisfied.  

It's a feature light MMO with a nonexistant on ramp to the PvE endgame with no direction in PvP.   

Gamers expected more out of this with the studio, the IP and the funding that was behind it.  It's really that simple. 

The game lacks longevity and for ther most part originality, it's a "3 monther". They can add addition content for end-game but it will be more of the same that people have seen in other games and other options are missing - end game is dungeons or warfronts. Yes, you can level alts, but 80% of the content you will be repeating.

The only thing it offers that is different are the cut scenes and voice overs. This will not promote longevity.

I got a 6 month sub to this game and I like it a lot. However it lacks content and a lot of it.  I'm currently raising alts because there is nothing else to do.  OP's or raids as some folks call them are buggy as all get out EV being the worst bugged of all of them.

Alt playability other than the story of that class is boring as all get out.  Honestly is this the best they could do with 5 years of working on it?

I will wait until my sub runs out but I find myself playing skyrim when not raiding.

Mostly the negativity being directed at the game is from disapointment. Many people were so hyped about the game and in the end it turns out to be a very mediocur generic MMo.  Its how I define a game thats trying to be so rediculously generic that it doesn't copy off any game and seemes to attempt to redefine what generic is. Its basically like they were like "Alright, lets copy and paste our story elements into game" and then after that. "Well... we don't know MMOs to much so...l lets just toss in the generic mmo class system and all to save time". 

They just do absolutely 0 to add in anything 'new' to an MMO, unless you want to include dialog (taken from their single player games) as something new which, btw, does practically nothing at all to shape how the game turns out. To their end, its something difficult to do in an MMO setting, but having your choices not really matter at all just makes it so lack luster of an experience.

Negativity exists because its a game that doesn't deserve anywhere close to its initial hype or its obviously paid off for reviews. Its just a game that I think most people wouldn't be willing to pay monthly for. Personally, I just don't see it being more then a meh f2p game. I can't call it completely bad, but I can't call it good at all either.

---

Originally posted by Crackbone
The hate comes from a AAA Studio(Bioware) with nearly unlimited funding($200+ mil) and one of the biggest IPs of all time made one of the most underwhelming MMOs in recent history. 
Let's be honest, the game isn't even worth being called a WoW clone.   The truth is, if they had launched with even 85% of WoWs features, many would be satisfied.  
It's a feature light MMO with a nonexistant on ramp to the PvE endgame with no direction in PvP.   
 
Gamers expected more out of this with the studio, the IP and the funding that was behind it.  It's really that simple.  

---

Very well put :). Although hate is a little strong. Think most 'normal' people were just very disappointed and have already moved on.

It's a popular game company, making a high budget game for a popular IP, and this is a forum full of "elite" gamers.  It's like going to a record store for "music enthusiasts" and buying a Coldplay CD.  You'll hear so much scoffing you'll think you're in a room full of steam engines...

...or more accurately, it's you across the street with your coldplay cd, and them running out of the store to follow you around scoffing as loudly as possible til the sidewalk's wet and their mouths are dry.

I get that players or ex-players have plenty of criticism to level at it; I have plenty of my own.  It's the people that never played, or played in beta that hated it that keep coming back, thread after thread, over and over to just bitch and bitch and bitch that I'll never understand.  It's like me camping in the Mortal Online forum ready to just piss on every thread that comes along... 

Originally posted by Robsolf

It's a popular game company, making a high budget game for a popular IP, and this is a forum full of "elite" gamers.  It's like going to a record store for "music enthusiasts" and buying a Coldplay CD.  You'll hear so much scoffing you'll think you're in a room full of steam engines...

...or more accurately, it's you across the street with your coldplay cd, and them running out of the store to follow you around scoffing as loudly as possible til the sidewalk's wet and their mouths are dry.

I get that players or ex-players can level plenty of criticism at it; I have plenty of my own.  It's the people that never played, or played in beta that hated it that keep coming back, thread after thread, over and over to just bitch and bitch and bitch that I'll never understand.  It's like me camping in the Mortal Online forum ready to just piss on every thread that comes along... 

Originally posted by Robsolf

It's a popular game company, making a high budget game for a popular IP, and this is a forum full of "elite" gamers.  It's like going to a record store for "music enthusiasts" and buying a Coldplay CD.  You'll hear so much scoffing you'll think you're in a room full of steam engines...

...or more accurately, it's you across the street with your coldplay cd, and them running out of the store to follow you around scoffing as loudly as possible til the sidewalk's wet and their mouths are dry.

I get that players or ex-players have plenty of criticism to level at it; I have plenty of my own.  It's the people that never played, or played in beta that hated it that keep coming back, thread after thread, over and over to just bitch and bitch and bitch that I'll never understand.  It's like me camping in the Mortal Online forum ready to just piss on every thread that comes along... 

Actually World of Warcraft would be more Coldplay. SWTOR is more like Mr Blobby or Jive Bunny and the Mastermixers

Well, for me, the game is moving away from what I consider MMORPGs to be. It is a colossal leap in the wrong direction. It's an essentially single player experience with plastic, lifeless, small worlds in which you are funnelled through. The VO is nice, but once that novelty wears off, this game is completely dead behind the eyes.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Robsolf

It's a popular game company, making a high budget game for a popular IP, and this is a forum full of "elite" gamers.  It's like going to a record store for "music enthusiasts" and buying a Coldplay CD.  You'll hear so much scoffing you'll think you're in a room full of steam engines...

...or more accurately, it's you across the street with your coldplay cd, and them running out of the store to follow you around scoffing as loudly as possible til the sidewalk's wet and their mouths are dry.

I get that players or ex-players can level plenty of criticism at it; I have plenty of my own.  It's the people that never played, or played in beta that hated it that keep coming back, thread after thread, over and over to just bitch and bitch and bitch that I'll never understand.  It's like me camping in the Mortal Online forum ready to just piss on every thread that comes along... 

 

More Justin Bieber really.

Joke's on them!

http://www.theonion.com/video/justin-bieber-found-to-be-cleverly-disguised-51yea,18178/

Originally posted by superniceguy

Actually World of Warcraft would be more Coldplay. SWTOR is more like Mr Blobby or Jive Bunny and the Mastermixers

Dread Zeppelin?

SWTOR is a soloplayer game pretty much.  Some people think the pet systems is something new.  GW did pets you could gear up and oh unlock or buy new skills for.  Nothing new here.

The world is all sharded which to me is a throw back to the earlier games.  Yet Bioware expects me to pay for this and therein lies the problem.  Bioware made an excellent PC game and it should have been sold as such.  A MMORPG this is not.

My alts start in a different area but end up with the same quests once I leave the starter area.If you love the game I am happy for you.   You want a solo game you got it for the most part. Even wit hthe so called innovation with pets you cannot use them once you group up so whats the point of wasting time and credits to make them powerful? 

This game reminds me of mythic's warhammer.