Originally posted by Sketch420

 

Simple question, do you find combat in eve to be fun? Many non-eve players have difficulty getting into the game because the combat is about as involved as rock paper scissors with a mixture of whoever spends more money fitting their ship wins.

Sometimes I think I could almost handle this style of combat, because in groups it wouldnt be terrible.. except players can buy as much isk as they want through CCP from all the botters that play eve.. so a lot of combat comes down to whoever has the better job in real life wins, as he has a faction ship ect.

Do you enjoy the combat? Any tips for others that dont enjoy it currently?

Heh , this is pathetic to the point I'm almost crying.  Seriously which MMO in existence doesn't use a rock/paper/scissors concept when it comes to PvP?  If one class were to own every other class then everyone would pick that type of class which would make the MMO broken down. 

 The point with EVE , is that it's a simple game yet pretty complex when it comes to PvP.  Sure you can fit a megathron and solopwnmobile 6-7 other players using battleships.  Go back again with the megathron but this time against a Neut Domi , a ECM boat and 2 tempest ... chances are you won't last till the 2 minute mark.

 EVE-Online is all about picking the right moment for YOU , not for your opponent. It's all about risks and rewards and is not suitable for all players.

 Now if you think that you'll play PvE in EVE forever , your in the wrong MMO. EVE's specialty is in PvP coop , doing solo bomb runs can be a heck of fun too! 

 And YES i do enjoy EVE's combat , win some and lose some , life ain't perfect !

Originally posted by JacobX

Originally posted by Kuro1n

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WlsvuSi7KlA#!

Good video of a good player explaining why hes doing what, still think its rock, paper, scissor and no tactics or skill involved?

Also JacobX, you didnt enjoy the combat. Some people do so stop pretending only your OPINION counts.

 

EDIT: nvm, figured out you are just here to troll now: http://i.imgur.com/WSVxe.png

All posts are in the EVE section, a game you insinuated is boring.

lol It's funny how some children get so agitated and defensive because you criticized the game they play. ;)

EDIT: BTW boy, learn to read. This thread is asking for our opinions, and I gave mine. There's no need to get so upset over it. I also only said EVE "combat" is boring. I mentioned several other aspects of the game which I enjoy. So again, learn to read. XP

Im not gonna bother arguing with someone like you. Its pointless, and calling someone a kid for saying you shouldnt bash other peoples opinions? heh yea 'alright'. Like I said im done with you. :)

when PXF-RF fell, it wasnt the isk that made it happen...it was the weapons.

Originally posted by Kuro1n

Getting angry like a child over someone's opinion on the Internet.

Cool story, broh.

trolls that just created their account a few days ago with the express intent of trolling aside...

I've always found the statement that "if i could actually pilot the ship instead of just clicking in space" to be rather confounding.  It sounds to me like you may want to tryp larping.  That's kinda like saying the combat in <insert fantasy mmo here> is boring because I can't swing the sword or jump out of the way of the blow or wiggle my fingers to cast a fireball.  I don't see how clicking in space with your right hand (for us righties) is different from hitting a button with your left hand on the keyboard.  In fact, it isn't. Really, imo, clicking on a direction in space could be considered more challenging than hitting an assigned key on your keyboard to navigate.

But hey.  As soon as I can "pilot" my own ship in space I'm all for it.  *ahem*  Engage.  /me points finger

o7

Originally posted by kovah

trolls that just created their account a few days ago with the express intent of trolling aside...

I've always found the statement that "if i could actually pilot the ship instead of just clicking in space" to be rather confounding.  It sounds to me like you may want to tryp larping.  That's kinda like saying the combat in is boring because I can't swing the sword or jump out of the way of the blow or wiggle my fingers to cast a fireball.  I don't see how clicking in space with your right hand (for us righties) is different from hitting a button with your left hand on the keyboard.  In fact, it isn't. Really, imo, clicking on a direction in space could be considered more challenging than hitting an assigned key on your keyboard to navigate.

But hey.  As soon as I can "pilot" my own ship in space I'm all for it.  *ahem*  Engage.  /me points finger

o7

You're making too much sense, it's going to confuse the Eve haters.  Expect them to respond with the tired SP argument or something about spreadsheets.

Combat is okay.  It wouldn't be EVE if the combat was OMG TWITCH SPACE DOGFIGHTER1!!11

Most fights are won or lost before undock.  EVE heavily tilts the balance of combat to the preparation phase, which favors planning.  This is why the spreadsheets joke is made.  It's not an unfair comparison - planning is a very important part of the game.

Simply a different set of skills needed to play EVE versus an FPS.  Going into detail on which requires more 'skill' would require actual study.

Combat in EVE is fun because it plays out much like actual combat (I am un the US military, and have first hand experience with this) in that much of the battle is decided by superior logistics and planning. The battlefield commander who has the superior tactics and strategy has the upper hand, and most fights are decided before an actual shot is fired. Keeping your enemy in the dark about your capabilities is key, and there is MUCH of this in EVE. It is hands-down the most realistic combat in any game I have ever played.

Originally posted by remyburke

The combat in EVE is pretty much the only reason I don't have a character with more than 12 mil sp. Unfortunately, it may be the only reason, but it's a big one..

If the combat was more responsive, and you could pilot your ship by actually flying it and not clicking in space, then I would have been playing nothing but EVE for the past 7 years. Everything else about the game is just so solid.

That's "twitch" mechanics. Yes, that would be cool, problem is that with twitch mechanics each user would take much more network bandwidth to support since twitch mechanics need much more processing speed to maintain. The large fleet fights would go poof...you probably wouldn't be able to get past 200 people in one fight before the server node crashes. Personally I'm glad they don't have twitch mechanics in Eve, even current day computers and reasonably affordable network speeds just aren't powerful enough to handle it on the scale that Eve would need.

If you truly need twitch mechanics, try Vendetta Online.

Originally posted by JacobX

People in EVE like to give themselves big egos by acting like EVE "combat" is hardcore, but it really involves little more than activating your modules (which takes all of 3 hotkeys...) and waiting for the rock/paper/scizzors match to play out. EVE "combat" is boring and dull and scripted. A battle is predetermined before it even begins based simply on the match-up. Player skill plays only the most cursory of roles.

A common saying in EVE is that "there's no such thing as a fair fight". That said, um, how can combat be fun? You either win by an overwhelming marging of force or you lose utterly by the same margin.

That said, there are certain things about PvP in EVE which I do enjoy; namely, the meta-game, spying, intelligence networks, social engineering, psychological warfare, market manipulation, etc etc. I'm just not into making things go boom. At least not in EVE; there's tons of games with better "combat" out there.

Originally posted by Wycliffe

Spoken like someone talking right out the ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWh5LymnRIw

Thats how you solo PVP, which is nothing like you describe.

I've learned time and time again, most people claiming they know best about EVE mechanics have no firsthand knowledge of what they're supposed experts of; even those that do have usually been doing it wrong. I don't claim to be good at EVE, but I know solo combat is far more involved than they'd like you to believe.

Ah, and the e-peen measuring commences. Hey cute video. If I was a newbie it might actually make me think EVE "combat" was fun, too.

The funnhy thing about it is that I've been playing EVE a long time. Did the whole "pirate" thing for a while, did the whole "null-bear" thing for a year or so, so suffice to say I have a lot of experience in roams and fleet ops. So yea, sorry broh... Despite all the flashy propaganda videos with their music and artfully calculated camera angling, EVE "combat" is boring as hell. Those who have years experience with EVE understand that the "combat" is boring. The "combat" is not meant to be fun. Combat is a means to an end. Anyone who doesn't understand that isn't really playing EVE at all, they're playing SpaceFighter, and they're still in the stage where spaceships are a novel idea to them.

The hardcore aspect in Eve is mainly the fact that if you screw up, you die, and you lose your ship plus everything that was on or in it. So you really have to plan ahead to try and not die, because dying can be very expensive.

If you're going solo against someone, do you know what he has fit on his ship? Are you sure he doesn't have any friends nearby that could show up to help him? Maybe he's slapped an unusual EWAR module on there that you don't normally find on the ship that he's flying, but he uses it effectively to totally cripple you. A lot of the time, you simply don't know, so you have to plan out how to engage and potentially how to escape if he starts kicking your ass. THAT is human player skill, that planning ahead of time and the split second decisions during a fight that could change its outcome. It's not just activating some modules, sitting back and watching the show.

JacobX, your comments on the "pirate" thing and the "null-bear" thing make me think that you didn't really do that much PvP, and I supremely doubt you were ever a FC. How about you put your money where your mouth is and post your char name so we can check your records.

The combat in Eve is alright but I spend most of time hoarding around in my Hulk/Orca mining Astreiods in low-sec like a boss :D I have too much ISK its not funny

Originally posted by kovah

trolls that just created their account a few days ago with the express intent of trolling aside...

I've always found the statement that "if i could actually pilot the ship instead of just clicking in space" to be rather confounding.  It sounds to me like you may want to tryp larping.  That's kinda like saying the combat in is boring because I can't swing the sword or jump out of the way of the blow or wiggle my fingers to cast a fireball.  I don't see how clicking in space with your right hand (for us righties) is different from hitting a button with your left hand on the keyboard.  In fact, it isn't. Really, imo, clicking on a direction in space could be considered more challenging than hitting an assigned key on your keyboard to navigate.

But hey.  As soon as I can "pilot" my own ship in space I'm all for it.  *ahem*  Engage.  /me points finger

o7

This is known as "reductio ad absurdum", or "reduction to the absurd", a common logical fallacy seen on the Internets.

Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

The hardcore aspect in Eve is mainly the fact that if you screw up, you die, and you lose your ship plus everything that was on or in it. So you really have to plan ahead to try and not die, because dying can be very expensive.

If you're going solo against someone, do you know what he has fit on his ship? Are you sure he doesn't have any friends nearby that could show up to help him? Maybe he's slapped an unusual EWAR module on there that you don't normally find on the ship that he's flying, but he uses it effectively to totally cripple you. A lot of the time, you simply don't know, so you have to plan out how to engage and potentially how to escape if he starts kicking your ass. THAT is human player skill, that planning ahead of time and the split second decisions during a fight that could change its outcome. It's not just activating some modules, sitting back and watching the show.

JacobX, your comments on the "pirate" thing and the "null-bear" thing make me think that you didn't really do that much PvP, and I supremely doubt you were ever a FC. How about you put your money where your mouth is and post your char name so we can check your records.

Planning ahead of time =! the actual "combat". You're making a false comparison (ie, apples and oranges). The planning is fun. The "combat" itself is boring.

And I'm not going to post my character name because

1. You sound really butthurt, and I deal with enough conflict and drama on EVE already. Besides, I wouldn't really be a good spymaster if I ran around telling everyone who I was, now would I? Can't have some upset forum troll using a locator agent and busting in on me with some friends when I'm doing important business.
2. I don't play the "post your killboard so we can then criticize every fine point" game. I also don't play the "tell people my age, or where I'm from" game.
3. If you don't like it, that's okay, because in the end what you think doesn't really matter, and drawing conclusions because I said "pirate thing" and "null-bear" illustrates that you're reaching for straws.

Eve's combat is one of the main reasons why I can't get into the game. Even the otherwise horrible STO has more engaging and fun combat.

If they want to improve it they need to first reduce the effective distance between ships by a factor of atleast 10 so you can actually see the ships firing at each other rather than two blips firing at each other.

Second they need to introduce shield facing so you can change where you reroute the shield power and also a more dynamic way of rerouting power from engines, shields and weapons so that the combat becomes more involving. Right now combat in Eve is 90% about preparation and 10% actual tactical manevours (observe I said tactical and not strategic). It should be more like 50/50 imo.

Originally posted by Jakdstripper

then only thing you are doing is trying to keep optimal distance and low transversal.....that's it. he tries to get close, and you try to keep him at bay, or the other way arround. he tries to get his trasversal high and you try to lower it, or the other way arround.

you are besically looking at numbers go up and down, wile your guns are firing.

If your PvP strategy and efforts began when the battle started, it's a safe bet that you already lost.

Yea.. 50'000 people online playing rock paper scissors.....  derp.

Rock Paper scissors analogy ONLY ever works one vs one.

As for ISK,  its not about how MUCH isk anyone has its about how much anyone is willing to RISK.    And normally, in a 'GOOD' corporation thats well organised usually you get most of your stuff for free, providing you help with the chores.

PvP is about strategy, thinking ahead, out witting, deeper understanding and proper organisation.    The physical act of pressing buttons and following someones lead isnt exciting,  just as moving a peice on a chess board isnt exciting,  its the implications and results of your actions that are exciting.

Dont currently paly eve but when i did i really enjoyed the PVP combat in big groups.. Fleet tactics are a msut to win any big fights... So I voted yes..

Eve combat is basically just the same as most other MMOs sure you have less skills to hit but its the same idea. I dont think this kind of scale space combat could have been any different, i dont see a twitch combat type system working for eve,

Well you must understand something it is not just any regular classic mmo. You have here so much to lose and there is no ressurection of ships . You must understand a tactic of today modern warfare---Guys ,today  modern airforces don't do anymore dog fight -it is fire and forget. Important is might and tactic how to engage and who to engage and what kind of weapons you have. Wing Commander combat simulation is not realistic,  do you really think  that pilots of spaceships in future will fight  manualy??? That is the reason why i like eve so much it is realistic so far how realistic one game can be. If you like more unrealistic space sim you have Black Prophecy. Nothing in this mmo world can boost your adrenalin like Eve Online, when i am roaming with my stealth bomber through enemy space i feel something what i never can feel in any  ''die/who cares'' game. Fly safe  or not :)

Originally posted by Caldrin

Dont currently paly eve but when i did i really enjoyed the PVP combat in big groups.. Fleet tactics are a msut to win any big fights... So I voted yes..

 

Eve combat is basically just the same as most other MMOs sure you have less skills to hit but its the same idea. I dont think this kind of scale space combat could have been any different, i dont see a twitch combat type system working for eve,

No it is not. In SW:TOR for example, my guardian has 3 hotbars full of skills (20+ activable skills) and I constantly have to think which to use in which sitation. How many activable skills do you typically have on an Eve ship, 4-5?

And they are usually straight out DPS and shield/armor buff and repair variants.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Caldrin

Dont currently paly eve but when i did i really enjoyed the PVP combat in big groups.. Fleet tactics are a msut to win any big fights... So I voted yes..

 

Eve combat is basically just the same as most other MMOs sure you have less skills to hit but its the same idea. I dont think this kind of scale space combat could have been any different, i dont see a twitch combat type system working for eve,

No it is not. In SW:TOR for example, my guardian has 3 hotbars full of skills (20+ activable skills) and I constantly have to think which to use in which sitation. How many activable skills do you typically have on an Eve ship, 4-5?

And they are usually straight out DPS and shield/armor buff and repair variants.

Actually, I think in both situations you are just running through minor variations of the standard rotation (sometimes there are 2 or 3) in each case.

And while EVE definitiely uses fewer skills that SWTOR, for some reason I was always far more likely to fail to use one of them in EVE instead of SWTOR, probably from the adreneline rush that occurs in EVE when there's far more on the line than a standard theme park MMO.