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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Would you like a hard open PVP mmorpg?

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121 posts found
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19514

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/17/12 11:32:16 PM#61

I did play a hard, open PVP MMORPG, was called EVE. 

A good balance of risk vs reward, and the ability for players to manage their level of risk.

We need a few more games like it.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
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  xAtmosfear

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/12
Posts: 1

3/17/12 11:54:03 PM#62

I'd like a hardcore PVP game with FFA loot, but with a security system similar to EVE's.  I'd like the combat to center more around the economy of the game, with thieves taking advantage of trading routes to gank players. This would result in having the traders hire other people to protect them. Alll in all pretty much like EVE but in a medieval non-fantasy setting.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

3/18/12 12:26:35 AM#63
Originally posted by PheerMeeh

I see where you're coming from, but what if you manage to beat that zerg or outplay that group that has higher stats and better gear in this open world FFA pvp MMORPG. Wouldn't that be more satisfying than playing a static 8v8, 16v16, etc.? Or do you just give up and bend over when you see a zerg or someone running around in full dragon because you got rolled the first time you and your buddies tried?

The best PVP is an exciting match that goes back and forth.

In a typical 16v16 game, good fights are rare enough.  If you add additional unbalancing factors like progression and population, you ensure a game basically never has good fights.

Who plays a PVP game to not experience good fights?

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

3/18/12 12:32:16 AM#64
Originally posted by bishbosh

feels awesome when you fight off a huge zerg with a smaller group. you dont get than in the battlegrounds of massively singleplayer gearfest rpgs.

Sure you do.  There's all sorts of times I fight off 5-20 players alone or with very little support in instanced PVP.

And if Planetside 2 is anything like the original, you'll get even larger battles (great 50 vs. 150 holdouts.)  But unlike world PVP games, when you're outnumbered it's directly because of a decision you made.  If you were holding a base with 50, that meant that elsewhere on the same continent there were 150 allies probably beating back the remaining enemy force of 50 players.

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2365

3/18/12 12:47:44 AM#65

By your OP it seems you want all players to have fairly equal penalties, but then you say you want PKs to have much worse penalties... so which is it?

  PheerMeeh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/04
Posts: 42

3/18/12 1:05:30 AM#66
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by PheerMeeh

I see where you're coming from, but what if you manage to beat that zerg or outplay that group that has higher stats and better gear in this open world FFA pvp MMORPG. Wouldn't that be more satisfying than playing a static 8v8, 16v16, etc.? Or do you just give up and bend over when you see a zerg or someone running around in full dragon because you got rolled the first time you and your buddies tried?

The best PVP is an exciting match that goes back and forth.

In a typical 16v16 game, good fights are rare enough.  If you add additional unbalancing factors like progression and population, you ensure a game basically never has good fights.

Who plays a PVP game to not experience good fights?

You like to assume that an ffa open world mmorpg is automatically unbalanced because it has progression and population. Lets just say that it is completely balanced and skill-based here because we aren't talking about specific games.... and like I said before, you manage to beat the zerg or outplay a group of "high levels". ... hell, you even run into a random 4v4 and end up winning. Wouldn't that be just as satisfying or even more satisfying than winning in a standard 6v6 fps game or whatever? I mean, its nice to get a double kill once in a while in an fps, but what about getting a double kill in an ffa open world mmorpg? 

Or wait, is that not possible because its an ffa open world mmorpg and you can never be good enough to attempt this? i've done my time in these ffa mmorpg's and YES at times there are ridiculous moments where u have like a 10% chance of winning, and sometimes you do end up winning those if you don't panic and run around in circles, but instead stay and fight properly... SOMETIMES. But there are also those encounters where both sides are equally balanced and whoever plays better wins. 

I just don't understand why you automatically assume an open world mmorpg NEVER has any damn good/fair fights. you could even be put in a 2v4 and still win if you outplay them by using your terrain or superior tactics etc.

  User Deleted
3/18/12 7:27:12 AM#67
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

IB4 Axehilt crying about zergs... too late.

It's not crying to demand a little gameplay integrity.  "I have more friends" is one of the shallowest forms of player competition around.

"Gameplay integrity" are you kidding me? So integrity is demanding the mechanics from one genre be applied to a small section of another genre which is wholly unsuited for it now is it? Don't make me fucking laugh. You are in fact, just crying.

 

It would be pretty shallow if something like EVE happened to be a lobby game in which you clicked "FIGHT" and subsequently loaded into a contained instance with 5 times as many players as some poor sod who has also just clicked "FIGHT".  Seeing how that though clearly isn't the case, at all, it is far from "shallow".

 

Tell you what, it is "unfair" when my dumbass team mates get lost or killed leaving me to carry the fight in the FPS and MOBA games I play. For that reason any pvp that is not purely 1v1 all the time is a pile of uncompetitive, unskilled shite. Ergo, there is no integrity in team pvp games and I demand that all team games revert to 1v1 pvp in the name of competition.

 

  Elsabolts

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 2696

Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It

3/18/12 7:30:04 AM#68

No thank you, One Mortal online is enough.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/18/12 7:42:56 AM#69

Go ahead and have all the open world PvP you want, but call it hard... yeah right.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  googlemo

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/12
Posts: 19

 
OP  3/18/12 11:14:49 AM#70
Originally posted by jusomdude

By your OP it seems you want all players to have fairly equal penalties, but then you say you want PKs to have much worse penalties... so which is it?

Please enlighten me, where did I say PK and BLue should have THE SAME penalties? Obviously PK should be punished more harshly, but when youre  PKed you should also lose something, it shouldn't be scot free!

  Votan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/04
Posts: 290

3/18/12 11:30:52 AM#71

In theory I would like one but in practice the problem is the community it attracks is just terrible.  So unless I could hand pick the server population I will pass.

  finalreview

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 12

3/18/12 12:05:03 PM#72

To long to read it all, but if no one has mentioned Life is Feudal: UO/Darkfall/Shadowbane/Xsyon/Mount&Blade mixed together and more. Game is currently Pre-Alpha so don't judge the screenshots to harshly.

 

Main Site:

http://lifeisfeudal.com/

Interactive FAQ Answered by Lead Dev:

http://lifeisfeudal.com/community/forum.html?func=view&catid=3&id=3

Sneak Peek Screenshot Thread:

http://lifeisfeudal.com/community/forum.html?func=view&catid=3&id=1122

 

 

  DAS1337

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2383

3/18/12 12:13:25 PM#73
Originally posted by googlemo

All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

 

P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

Nope, go play Darkfall.  It's almost exactly what you just described.

 

The problem is that it's PvP focused.  A sandbox can have PvP in it, but if that's the main focus, it fails.  It's been proven time and time again.  So while I'm looking for something that is like what you've described, I'd like that game to pander to all playstyles.  Not just one.

  googlemo

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/12
Posts: 19

 
OP  3/18/12 12:16:57 PM#74
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by googlemo

All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

 

P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

Nope, go play Darkfall.  It's almost exactly what you just described.

 

The problem is that it's PvP focused.  A sandbox can have PvP in it, but if that's the main focus, it fails.  It's been proven time and time again.  So while I'm looking for something that is like what you've described, I'd like that game to pander to all playstyles.  Not just one.

I didn't say that such a game PVP ONLY, there should be grinding, questing, farming, crafting, and PvP encouraged by other aspects as well!  DF is a good example, but the sad thing is that developers failed at finishing the game in time...

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3207

Veni, Vidi, Converti

3/18/12 12:44:33 PM#75
Originally posted by googlemo

All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

 

P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

open pvp + death penalties could work but not with some of the above imo!

Instead of open pvp being at the top of the totem, it would have to be another part of the ecosystem.

  DAS1337

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2383

3/18/12 12:53:12 PM#76
Originally posted by googlemo
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by googlemo

All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

 

P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

Nope, go play Darkfall.  It's almost exactly what you just described.

 

The problem is that it's PvP focused.  A sandbox can have PvP in it, but if that's the main focus, it fails.  It's been proven time and time again.  So while I'm looking for something that is like what you've described, I'd like that game to pander to all playstyles.  Not just one.

I didn't say that such a game PVP ONLY, there should be grinding, questing, farming, crafting, and PvP encouraged by other aspects as well!  DF is a good example, but the sad thing is that developers failed at finishing the game in time...

The part that I believe you have wrong is the part where you'd want PvP to be encouraged.  To what degree?

 

It's human nature to seek out conflict of some sort.  You can discourage PvP at every turn without hardcoding restrictions and people will still seek it out.  In order to have a large community base, you must not encourage PvP.  I'm not saying to remove all PvP aspects from the game, not by any means.  You can still have PvP arenas, guild wars, faction wars, territory control of resources and land, Naval and siege warfare, and similar mechanics within the game.  The idea is to not promote a focus on gankers and griefers.  In fact, you should focus on attempting to protect players who do not actively seek it out, but make it very accessible to players who do.  That's where I was going when saying that the game must cater to all playstyles to really have a strong chance at success.  I agree that mostly what you're looking for is realistic for a game.  In fact, thousands, if not millions have the same opinion.  It all comes down to the execution of features within your desired games.  That's where near every sandbox developer goes horribly wrong.

  SirBalin

Warmonger

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1108

3/18/12 12:59:04 PM#77
Originally posted by googlemo

All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

 

P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

Yea, basically what you are asking for is Darkfall.  Problem is Darkfall's day is about done...was an amazing game, but adventurine is the most non-community friendly company ever, which really hurt them in the long run.  Still...dispite that, was a great game!  They just announced game of thrones as an mmo and it encourages full pvp, sieging, etc...could be really good, we'll see.  Also in the future you have world of darkness (perma-death, doesnt' get much more hardcore than that) Tera...full open pvp, and archeage.  Some nice owpvp style sandboxes are on the rise.  The only problem with the hardcore pvp community is that they are not forgiving...to include myself.  Devs can satisfy the casual non hardcore people with decent content.  The pvp community tends to want their game when they want it, no mistakes and thats it.  How many times have we seen an open pvp game launch and maybe it has a few problems and that hardcore community just instantly quits on it saying, "your game is trash, nuff said."  That doesn't make a dev team want to put a lot of money into the owpvp sandboxes.  I personally love them, but our own community has hurt us.

Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/18/12 1:37:13 PM#78
Originally posted by TROLL_HARD
Originally posted by Slapshot1188

I would actually enjoy a permadeath game (I know there is Salem coming, not sure if I'll like the genre though).

That would actually make folks think twice before mindless PKing.  Currently most FFA games have no real danger  to it.  If folks had to worry that their characters would actually DIE, they might be more well behaved instead of acting like roaming bands of psychotic killers.

 

 

Frr the record I do realize that such a game would not be a commercial success... but it is one I would enjoy trying.

 

Could you imagine the raging and tears if a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online had  perma-death? Reading that on the game forums would probably be as much fun as playing the actual games.

Thats what makes perma-death so great.  If you ever play roguellike games, that is the essencce of them.  and yes, on the forums for those games there is always a forum for YASD = "Yet Another Stupid Death" where players lament how they did something careless or stupid and killed off a promising character.  Perma-death makes games way more intense and fun, especially games where progression is relatively quick and perma-death won't equal rage quit.

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1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
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  rabite256

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 7

3/18/12 2:10:59 PM#79

Not really an MMO, but the last hardcore FFA PVP game I played was Dark Souls for the PS3. There was PVP action every 5-10 minutes.

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1641

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

3/18/12 2:18:04 PM#80

I went back to Darkwind after a lengthy hiatus and entered my now level 50 driving leader into a deathrace. Let's just say my skills weren't as sharp, and a little bump in the corner that I probably could have avoided sent poor Calvin Kline into the Wall at 110 MPH. Luckily for him he was killed instantly when his head severed from his body. I tend to take that turn a little slower these days.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

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