Say GW sells 10 million copies. 

suddenly next year we have 8000 clones.

and those clones will charge for every single thing under the sun. 

either grind for 20 hours for X or spend $3.95 for X and get it now. 

same shit different format. 

Look at LoL, many companies are already looking at how to exploit that market. The same goes for Diablo 3. The same goes for anything successful. 

Make something successful, and people will take that idea and put their own twist on it. 

well it looks like you guys got some stronge opnions about b2p/f2p/p2p models its good to see what you people have to say

Originally posted by Swollen_Beef

Say GW sells 10 million copies. 

suddenly next year we have 8000 clones.

and those clones will charge for every single thing under the sun. 

either grind for 20 hours for X or spend $3.95 for X and get it now. 

same shit different format. 

Look at LoL, many companies are already looking at how to exploit that market. The same goes for Diablo 3. The same goes for anything successful. 

Make something successful, and people will take that idea and put their own twist on it. 

Hardly, it takes years to make a MMO. The first real Wow clone was LOTRO and it released almost 3 years after Wow (they had it in work earlier but probably revamped it once wow got big).

So if GW2 becomes that big what will happen is that Wow and other games will steal some features, I can see Wow making a few zones with DEs and add some battlegrounds that are closer to the mists but smaller with fewer players.

Then 2015 or so th first clone would show up...

Singleplayer games is a lot faster to make so in those cases clones can show up pretty soon but mmOs are a slow process and a good MMO takes about 5 years to make. Bad clones can be made in 3 though.

Originally posted by bowzef1990

So what if guildwars 2 is a big hit and it comes to be very succsefull game?

with that fact that all the current mmo that are pay to play SWTOR, rift  and TERA coming soon ect and that guildwars 2  1 time purchase and the cash shop

 

will this force these companys to change? whats do you guys think will happen will it change the MMO's? give me your opninion

Do not worry. If it is even remotely as was Gw1, there is no danger for any one.

And I'm playing Swtor since release, then will Rift, back Wow, back Swtor, .... and have not even minimal interest to change top 3 games in P2P model with some GW2, not even if they pay me monthly fee.

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by bowzef1990

So what if guildwars 2 is a big hit and it comes to be very succsefull game?

with that fact that all the current mmo that are pay to play SWTOR, rift  and TERA coming soon ect and that guildwars 2  1 time purchase and the cash shop

 

will this force these companys to change? whats do you guys think will happen will it change the MMO's? give me your opninion

Do not worry. If it is even remotely as was Gw1, there is no danger for any one.

And I'm playing Swtor since release, then will Rift, back Wow, back Swtor, .... and have not even minimal interest to change top 3 games in P2P model with some GW2, not even if they pay me monthly fee.

lies

Originally posted by bowzef1990

So what if guildwars 2 is a big hit and it comes to be very succsefull game?

with that fact that all the current mmo that are pay to play SWTOR, rift  and TERA coming soon ect and that guildwars 2  1 time purchase and the cash shop

 

will this force these companys to change? whats do you guys think will happen will it change the MMO's? give me your opninion

I think the subscription model is dying already, and GW2 will just boost things up. I'm currently suscribed to Rift, but only till GW2 release.

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Originally posted by Muntz

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Originally posted by Rednecksith

I hope it is a hit, and I hope it changes sub models overall. Paying a monthly sub is just... outdated. I don't mind paying for the license itself, but a sub fee on top of that is becoming more difficult to justify. Bandwidth is cheap and plentiful, and will only become even more so as infrastructure improves worldwide. Development of new content is also far easier than the game's initial creation, and can easily be financed through expansion packs.

Sub fees need to disappear. B2P and F2P are the future of our hobby, and I welcome it. If GW2 is successful, hopefully more companies will go the aforementioned routes.

The problem is not so much the subscription fee itself... it's the value of the product. If you're paying a sub for a game that puts out very little content to justify the cost then it's a problem, but when it's a game that pushes out content for it's subscribers that is proportionate to the cost (AKA Rift) then there's obviously no problem because you're getting your money's worth.

With F2P games like GW2 you either get a P2Win system or long waits between content updates. If being able to play a game for free and only paying for content that comes out ~5 months later suits you then more power to you, but I very much prefer to have content quicker.

The problem isn't the business model... it's the business using it and how they choose to treat their customers.

I'm confused by this type of analysis. It's a B2P game not F2P. They have done this type of system once before with GW1. GW1 put out alot of content regularly that put to shame the sub MMOs I've played. I think it's because they are motivated to release content, they get paid for a new box. In a sub model, they have your money so what is the motivation to release new content?  Maybe Rift is the exception (@15mo they are putting out a full GW2 every 4 months) but I've not seen a sub give the value for the money.  

I can say what will happen, if they hold to what they did with GW1 it wont be P2Win. I think they would piss alot of customers off if it gets to that.

If you feel you get more content quicker, so that you  get your  moneys worth with a sub more power to you. 

What is there to be confused about? And I honestly do not understand the need to have to clarify whether a game is B2P vs F2P like there is some huge difference between the two. With GW you're not buying to play the game, you're buying the game... the game itself is free to play. GW got content in the form of Expansions which you paid for, not in standard updates unless you want to count the small amount of content it got a few months after launch... it was stuff that should have been in at release to begin with. Just look at the history of GW and you'll see how long it took to receive content (expansions). Updates such as fixes, nerfs, and buffs do not count as content.

I'm not bashing GW in any way, people enjoyed the game and some didn't. The business model worked for those people and you I'm not trying to argue that you didn't get your money's worth cause I'm sure you did. But with a sub model you can expect to see quality updates and content much sooner and more often... at least that's the way it should be. Companies like to take advantage of their users and some of the more honest developers don't. I for one am very pleased with Trion (Rift) as a company and will gladly pay for their services, but don't expect to see me give a company like Blizzard a cent of my money.

The game it's self is not free to play...

Free to play means: you don't give a penny and you can download the client, install it, make an account and start playing...

Buy to play means: you pay for the box which gives you the product code which you then use to create your account, download your client, install it and then play it without a monthly fee... 

Learn the difference, it's important!

GW didn't get content only trough expansions, they were putting out new dungeons, items, quests regularly trough patches for free... Updates and bug fixes is not classified as content, we're not retarded. So it's not correct what you said for history of GW1.

The fact that majority of content was in a form of expansion is true (WOW does the same thing, and even charges you a monthly fee with minimum content in the mean time) but we were given new content regularly and it wasn't "small amount". Even now we're getting new content every month or so without a fee...

So as I said, "the most successfull mmorpg today" (aka wow) doesn't give you quality updates and content much sooner and more often... They give you alot of content with an expansion, and between 2 of the expansions you get like 1 or 2 dungeons to refresh the content... So as you said it, they do not deserve a penny.. But then again, even AION gave new expansions for free to existing subscribers, and I think EVE is on that list as well... 

If you say Rift is doing it good then I trust you, and I think EVE has always been good to their customers... But there's a lot of companies which look only for profit and how to screw their players, which really pisses me off. :D

Yeah basically what he said. What I disagree with is the notion that only a P2P model has the highest potential to give you a quality product and is only model that generates the revenue to do it. Sorry many P2P games fall short. There really aren't any B2P MMOs to point to. However, the high cost of running the game which was much of what the original monthly fee covered no longer exists. Historically, there is a fee model and now a days it makes good money. I can see why the developers don't want to give it up. I have trouble seeing why the consumers so badly want to pay it.

I see alot of this has turned into a discussion mostly about  B2P/F2P/P2P and i just wanted to share this.

I have no problem paying to play a good MMO, infact i payed to play Asherons Call for many many years. But every single month they do patchs that add content and fix minor bugs it really felt like my 12 bucks was going to somthing. patch day was great log in and find the new stuff, search the lands looking for new portals to dungeons or new npcs.

in todays games i feel VERY ripped off paying a monthly sub.  in todays games i feel like my 15 bucks a month is going towards finishing a game i already purchased. there are tons and tons of things wrong with these games at release that i feel like i just wasted 60 bucks on half a game and after i spend another 60 in monthly payments 4 months down the road the game MIGHT be closer to complete.

plus most of the time 4 or 5 months down the road they are adding very little content to the game, most of the time they are re-balanceing classes or fixeing major bugs that were addressed in betas but not fixed before release.

Im looking forward to seeing how GW2 plays out with it being Buy to Play, and if it works out and other companys copy it then cool. because as of now most companys cant make games worthy of a monthly sub.

Other MMORPG's should be fine assuming they are putting out a product their subscribers enjoy no matter what the payment model is for that game. But that is a big assumption on my part lol. I'm not sure how many people are really happy with their current MMO to be honest... but I know for certain there are lots of unhappy people on these forums and elsewhere!

Originally posted by vojkan95

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by bowzef1990

So what if guildwars 2 is a big hit and it comes to be very succsefull game?

Do not worry. If it is even remotely as was Gw1, there is no danger for any one.

And I'm playing Swtor since release, then will Rift, back Wow, back Swtor, .... and have not even minimal interest to change top 3 games in P2P model with some GW2, not even if they pay me monthly fee.

lies

So ... you know better then I know what I will do in future and what will play or not? You are obviously tipical gw fan, blind to anything any1 might say. Btw, have tried gw, purchased even expansion. Game could, imo of course, never ever survive in p2p model. Never ever. And f2p marked is mainly there because of cheap people that do not care at all about quality. If it is cheap it is good.

Well....enjoy gw and gw2 if you can, I'm unable to.

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by vojkan95

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by bowzef1990

So what if guildwars 2 is a big hit and it comes to be very succsefull game?

Do not worry. If it is even remotely as was Gw1, there is no danger for any one.

And I'm playing Swtor since release, then will Rift, back Wow, back Swtor, .... and have not even minimal interest to change top 3 games in P2P model with some GW2, not even if they pay me monthly fee.

lies

So ... you know better then I know what I will do in future and what will play or not? You are obviously tipical gw fan, blind to anything any1 might say. Btw, have tried gw, purchased even expansion. Game could, imo of course, never ever survive in p2p model. Never ever. And f2p marked is mainly there because of cheap people that do not care at all about quality. If it is cheap it is good.

Well....enjoy gw and gw2 if you can, I'm unable to.

dont worry, one less wow noob in GW2 is a good thing.

Same thing that happend when AOC/WAR/RIFT/SWTOR promised the same question would be asked, only to end up being just the same.

GW2 will have a huge launch, like the above mentioned games. I think the pvp fanatics will stay longer than usual, im not convinced that the game has enough role dependant pve mechanics to appeal to the serious pve players.

Not saying it will be a flop, its just...how many games do we have to go through where this is the frame of mind only to find out its quite the opposite in the end? 

A lot of GW2's features sound goundbreaking....just like war and rift has a lot of reworded systems that ended up growing stale quick, and after the launch wave of players had run through the content and found the path or least resistance, the rest was ignored. It left the game as a regular themepark with some side additions that were...just ok.

I do like the GW style "choose 8 skills" over the set in stone classes with their bank of standard issue skills that you and the guy next to you has as well.  I can see that being something used more, TSW is already doing something like that applied to a very diffrent skill system.

Anyway...far too early to tell...you just cant judge a games success untill a full month has passed playing it...far too many times a mmorpg has cloaked the same old ina  new shiny and thin mask...only do people find out a month or so in if the game is really all that diffrent.

I cant see what makes this games endgame much diffrent in the end...still isntanced pvp and pve raids right?

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Snippage

I cant see what makes this games endgame much diffrent in the end...still isntanced pvp and pve raids right?

Wrong.

One thing with GW2 is that they leave the entire game available as endgame... you don't erect any walls behind you to the content you levelled past. The side-kicking system will level you down to lower level content keeping it a challenge. One thing that does is leave all of the eight initial dungeons viable for you at level 80, which is eight story paths and 24 (wtf hard) explorable paths. There is the instanced 5v5 PvP, the competitive side, but then there's also the massive World vs World PvP, pitting three servers against each other in a massive set of maps known as the Mists. Worth looking up if you're not familiar with it... you can go there right off the bat and level all the way to 80 without ever leaving if you wish. Plus, there will be all the dynamic events to do, including the meta-events with huge world bosses that anyone can join in fighting (The Shatterer and Tequatl the Sunless being a couple mid-level zone examples) that will bring back memories of massive raids with added levels of chaos for flavoring.

This doesn't include all the mini-games, the exploring, the crafting, etc. Basically, endgame is the entire game, not some cut off instanced stuff while the rest of the game is obsolete.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Snippage

I cant see what makes this games endgame much diffrent in the end...still isntanced pvp and pve raids right?

Wrong.

 

One thing with GW2 is that they leave the entire game available as endgame... you don't erect any walls behind you to the content you levelled past. The side-kicking system will level you down to lower level content keeping it a challenge. One thing that does is leave all of the eight initial dungeons viable for you at level 80, which is eight story paths and 24 (wtf hard) explorable paths. There is the instanced 5v5 PvP, the competitive side, but then there's also the massive World vs World PvP, pitting three servers against each other in a massive set of maps known as the Mists. Worth looking up if you're not familiar with it... you can go there right off the bat and level all the way to 80 without ever leaving if you wish. Plus, there will be all the dynamic events to do, including the meta-events with huge world bosses that anyone can join in fighting (The Shatterer and Tequatl the Sunless being a couple mid-level zone examples) that will bring back memories of massive raids with added levels of chaos for flavoring.

 

This doesn't include all the mini-games, the exploring, the crafting, etc. Basically, endgame is the entire game, not some cut off instanced stuff while the rest of the game is obsolete.

In other words PvP Warzones and PvE raids is endgame. Just like other MMOs. I have a feeling people hoping this will be something completely different from the usual MMO will be a little letdown. I'm looking forward to it but I'll wait a few months after launch to buy it when it's cheaper and has a lot more reviews, after the shiny has worn off.

Edit: The original Guild Wars was excellent. And I'm guessing GW2 will have the same feel but with more MMO sprinkled in. Better crafting, PvE, largescale PvP. Everything so far sounds great. But the ingame community of the original game felt more like a first person shooter lobby than an MMO. Meaning that it was more impersonal. No one really made an effort to get to know other players. And you still have that vibe in some subscription MMOs but not as much. I think if you pay a subscription for a game you're going to invest a certain amount of time/effort and you're going to be a little more socially invested then in a free to play game. Not always, but usually. It might depend upon the social tools that the developers give the players within and outside of the game. Guess we'll see.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Snippage

I cant see what makes this games endgame much diffrent in the end...still isntanced pvp and pve raids right?

Wrong.

 

Indeed so very wrong

First there will be no endgame PvE raids...

Seccondly the WvWvW PvP part is like a sepperate world for PvP, which is so huge that it will feel like open world PvP more then an instanced game... because the WvWvW batles only reset once every 2 weeks.

If GW2 becomes as succesfull as WoW, other MMo's still have enough room to cexcist with it... Personally i see GW2 fit to have that role of that home you keep returning to, but allows you to visit other games from time to time, as it will allways be there to return back to.

Possible, but unlikely, what happens if  under the odds stuff happens is beyond human comprehension

Here's my take on the OP's question:

I figure GW2 already has a huge following, and I'd suspect the main populace will be those who played the first GW.  That said, the first GW had a SHITTON of players.  I'd expect the secord incarnation of the game to be no less successful.  There will, of course, be those (myself most likely included) who look at the game as something new to play.  Some of those folks will like it and stay on, some will leave.  The vocal @$$hat minority who have nothing better to do will come to forums such as the awesome, lovely, beautiful MMORPG.com and bash the shit out of it.

Now to really answer the question - if GW2 becomes a huge, monstrous hit success, I don't think anything will change.  There will still be games with subscription fees, there will be F2P games, and we might see a couple more B2P games.  At least in the near future.  But as popular as GW was, how many companies switched their pay model? 

SOrry about the "pay model" thing - it's St. Patrick's Day and I've had a few Guinnesses.  Or is it Guinnii?  I don't know. 

That's my take, anyway.

I just hope no matter what, people don't sit around and try to make GW2 clones....Devs have been lazy/safe imo, not much innovation in the last 5+ years with AAA money.

Hmm just read through all 8 pages of the thread. I had to read the topic header to reorient myself :D

Well... if GW2 does become big.. thats great! what will happen to other mmorpgs? - they usually survive/fail and companies  make newer mmorpgs adding new ideas from sucessful mmos.

If GW2 did succed  and some companies do copy the Buy-to-play (B2P) model, one cannot be certain they will copy arenanet's "dont rip-the-customer-off" tendecy in the in-game cash shop (aka microtransactions) [ i am just gonna assume arenanet will not rip-off in GW2 after seeing thier history with GW microtransactions]# If companies do copy and move to B2P## they may still  rip-off the customer# So inspiring mmo companies to move to B2P wont be changing much for the customer, in most cases#

Also after reading some posts, i see some are kinda assuming GW2 gameplay is same as GW in terms of instances, persistence world among a lot of other things# It isnt# I for one havnt played GW #yeah i know i shot myself in the foot saying the 2 are different while having not played them## i wanted to get GW to get some reward carry overs to GW2# But having checked out the gameplay vids of GW it was way different than what excites me in GW2 and i am ready to furgo those rewards instead of boring myself with GW# I rather wait and play GW2 and check out the game play in terms of - questing, pvp and pve seperation #exception WvW#, server vs server battles, a reduced dependence on mindless super specialisation in tanking, healing and damage dealing# In short - some who posted assuming GW and GW2 together in regards to gameplay, graphics etc please read up more about GW2 before posting. Helps not to misinform some readers who are curious about GW2.

If Guild Wars 2 is big in terms of sales, there is still a question of how many people will like...

a# non super-specialised gameplay #tanking, healing and damage dealing having to be done by all#. Some veteran mmo players could be used to the usual gameplay for so long, some may find it hard to change to this new concept. While newer players may find it a lot of multitasking. Personally i like the new thought behind it and am looking forward to learn a new way to do things as a team in dungeons and stuff in pve. But the fact remains game play may send a lot of players away after a few months as they were "leet" as mostly damage dealing drones :D #in some fan sites its funny to read people excited and applauding the devs ideas of this while in the same post talking about how to pump out more dps.. i guess some players still have to change the way they think#

b# levels as markers to help your personal storyline quest and not as a symbol of power or reaching end-game. The game has no end game. lvls are there to allow you to move through your storyline quest mostly and guide you through the map for that purpose. The fact you can go to lower lvls #get auto lvl balanced for that area# and enjoy the pve there proves lvl 80 doesnt mean much in pve. Its just a cursor to what point of your storyline you can achieve. Many players are gonna find this hard to wrap thier minds around. It seems so hard a concept that the devs infact had to use the term "end-game" and say that the whole game was "end-game". players still need to hear the word "end-game" to feel comforted. This could demoralize/demotivate some players after a while since there is no "goal" to be achieved in thier mind. Then the question is what defines "big" for GW2 - sales, changing player perception, gameplay evolution, business model evolution?

Anyhoo.. point is #i just realised i rambled quite a bit hehe#.. if GW2 is a sucess thats great! if its not.. and arenanet makes a bit of profit out of it.. atleast for me thats great! I like the fact they are trying to change the fundamental mindset of the player on the dependence of trinity, end game, concept/need of levels. Evolving gameplay and other things that hopefully makes bigger companies use some of thier profits to not only adapt to changing tech and concepts but also try huge risks that change the very nature of gameplay albeit but a small degree.

I am really sorry for the long post. I tend to not post in forums due to this rambling tendency of mine.

Great 1st post konark and welcome to the forums.

Anyway, Guild Wars 2 will be huge. There's no denying that at this point. Will it effect the way devs go about making themepark MMORPGs? Maybe, because there are people who played GW2 and find it hard to go back to the old tedious style of questing. If such a mentality spreads, then it will definitely force devs to rethink their design.