Ever heard the story of the boy who cried "Wolf"?

You might find it informative as regards the current debate and why certain posters view on population issues is ... suspect shall we say.

Originally posted by Norpan 

Well they have been waiting for the game to come close to the vision they have for it. And with Awakening they will be there. So it will happen. And yeah, it will cost. But I don´t think MO will try to compete with those big ass themepark companies. They gonna advertice it on a small scale, but will do it in the right forums for their type of game. And some people that tried MO and thought it lack will also come back and check it out. Not everyone ofc, but some will. Some might like and stay, some won´t. They don´t have to have that many more players to keep the wheels spinning. And MO is a niched game, and don´t have many opponents to fight with when it comes to FFA sandbox games. So if they get MO to a state where they are pleased with it, then I have no doubt in my mind that they at least will get enough money to keep rolling and live from it.

You claim to have been around MO since the very beginning, so you should know that this isn't the first time SV claims to be "close to the vision".

Tindrem was supposed to be in shortly after release, the Epic patch was supposed to bring advanced AI and other cool stuff, Dawn was supposed to bring a revolutionary breeding and gene system, the TC patch was supposed to make PvP meaningful and bring some real empire building tools...

...but what happened? Most of the stuff they actually managed to implement was broken, bugged, half-assed, or utterly meaningless. I still remember the "WTF?"-feeling I got when I returned for Dawn and found out they had spent months working on mutant horses that could pee but not run straight, instead of actually fixing all the crucial things that are missing and/or broken. Then it really "dawned" on me that MO is nothing but a scam.

The same thing will undoubtly happen this time, too. Awakening will probably make even more people finally "wake up" to fact that SV is a bunch of amateurs posing as game designers, and that the game will never be "close to the vision" because it will always be crippled by bad code and fucked up design priorities.

And no, SV will not be able to magically conjure up the money needed for a real PR campaign (you know, the one that work with real advertising and not over-zealos fanbots spamming pro-MO posts in forums). There are no indie sandbox sites that give small companies advertisement discounts; to get any serious attention they'll need to buy ads at sites like this one - and then they are competing with the big ass themepark companies, whether they want to or not.

Originally posted by Energyo

Would you guys just like me to take some screen shots of banks and things like that and post it?

While it does not give you a number it will show that the population is better than it was in the past (when banks were empty, Fabernum had like 2 people in the area). Even if you create a trial account and look around you'll clearly see that the population is higher, does this mean subscription numbers are up? Not necessarily... Remember many people have 2 or more accounts, some people may not feel the need to pay for more accounts and only subscribe one, so while some people may be coming back others may be dropping an account for now until the exansion is released. (Just want to throw that out there, I used to subscribe two accounts, I only have one now... in terms of pure numbers in the past I would equal to 2 subscribers just incase you don't understand).

I don't think anyone on this forum is really saying, atleast I have not noticed, that the population is sky rocketing and that SV is making money. What people, like myself, are trying to say is that there is definately a population increase. It is very easy to see that it has increased.

I understand that on these forums that people have been making statements in the past of population booms when in fact there really was not much of an increase at all (I've checked myself on different timezones on trial accounts to see and the population was still bad in the past) but I can assure you that I am not making things up. To prove that you can just look at my previous posts, I have been highly critical of Mortal Online and SV when I had quit, even now I am still critical and have made that clear in posts even after I had resubscribed. For anyone thinking about coming back to the game I would definately wait until the expansion comes out because you still do lack the very important PvE content to the game, there is a lot of downtime currently with how PvE works because PvE basically is butchery, very boring.

I wont babble on any longer in this post, I think my point(s) are pretty clear.

Yes but if you had read a bit more from my posts, I'm not deying there might be more people "in game" but my take is that this is explained by a regain of interest by the coming of awakening and thus inactive subscribers coming back in-game and people making trial accounts.

As an effect you will see more people in towns but it won't do anything in terms of sales, it won't create profit, and this is because SV have now too many times hyped an upcoming expansion that would be revolutionary and people ending up dissapointed and angry. So this time people won't take the bait and will simply wait before giving any money to SV, hence the stock price not moving by an inch.

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by Energyo

Would you guys just like me to take some screen shots of banks and things like that and post it?

While it does not give you a number it will show that the population is better than it was in the past (when banks were empty, Fabernum had like 2 people in the area). Even if you create a trial account and look around you'll clearly see that the population is higher, does this mean subscription numbers are up? Not necessarily... Remember many people have 2 or more accounts, some people may not feel the need to pay for more accounts and only subscribe one, so while some people may be coming back others may be dropping an account for now until the exansion is released. (Just want to throw that out there, I used to subscribe two accounts, I only have one now... in terms of pure numbers in the past I would equal to 2 subscribers just incase you don't understand).

I don't think anyone on this forum is really saying, atleast I have not noticed, that the population is sky rocketing and that SV is making money. What people, like myself, are trying to say is that there is definately a population increase. It is very easy to see that it has increased.

I understand that on these forums that people have been making statements in the past of population booms when in fact there really was not much of an increase at all (I've checked myself on different timezones on trial accounts to see and the population was still bad in the past) but I can assure you that I am not making things up. To prove that you can just look at my previous posts, I have been highly critical of Mortal Online and SV when I had quit, even now I am still critical and have made that clear in posts even after I had resubscribed. For anyone thinking about coming back to the game I would definately wait until the expansion comes out because you still do lack the very important PvE content to the game, there is a lot of downtime currently with how PvE works because PvE basically is butchery, very boring.

I wont babble on any longer in this post, I think my point(s) are pretty clear.

 

Yes but if you had read a bit more from my posts, I'm not deying there might be more people "in game" but my take is that this is explained by a regain of interest by the coming of awakening and thus inactive subscribers coming back in-game and people making trial accounts.

As an effect you will see more people in towns but it won't do anything in terms of sales, it won't create profit, and this is because SV have now too many times hyped an upcoming expansion that would be revolutionary and people ending up dissapointed and angry. So this time people won't take the bait and will simply wait before giving any money to SV, hence the stock price not moving by an inch.

Originally posted by Feather5
Mortal online is in a good state of play and these idiots that dont like this style of game should quit trolling.

Best mmorpg at moment themeparks are imitators this is special.

No one here dislikes MO because they want a themepark style game. Work on your reading comprehension before commenting, please.

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by ltank

How did they "manipulate" percentages?

 

It's hilarious that this forum gets more daily posts than the Rift forum here. It speaks to the amount of foam flying around here.

How did they manipulate percentages??? are you joking or are you just that blind or dishonest? want me to link the other thread started on this forum?

When you give percentages without any number behind its called manipulation. Politicians and governments do it all the time with surveys.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/361/view/forums/thread/341213/Star-Vault-Reports-50-Increase-In-Sales.html

I also love how you you make any valid point and avoid discussion. I assume you don't dispute any of my statements, good thing !

ma·nip·u·late/m??nipy??l?t/

Originally posted by ltank

So if there was an actual 50% increase in sales, even if it was a small number of people, it's STILL a 50% increase. The percentages in no way were altered or edited and I challenge you to prove otherwise using the context of the time frame they were talking about.

Thanks for helping me prove my point, you probably don't even see it because of your bias. this is actually very funny.

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by ltank

So if there was an actual 50% increase in sales, even if it was a small number of people, it's STILL a 50% increase. The percentages in no way were altered or edited and I challenge you to prove otherwise using the context of the time frame they were talking about.

 

Thanks for helping me prove my point, you probably don't even see it because of your bias. this is actually very funny.

His point, that you fail to see, is that the percentage alone doesn't say much, nor does it mean increased population. If they sold first five license, then ten, it is 50% increase, but not that impressing, is it? Specially considering AQ left the game with 70 accounts afterwards.

I guess the point is that the population can be dereasing despite increased daily activity from active accounts and few extra copy sales. Now, I dont say that's the case, but it's a possibility. And SV are pretty good to manipulate and twist the numbers and words to make stuff look in their favour.

Originally posted by Feather5
Fact is you either support the only game with decent graphics and immersion or you sit here and moan about its pit falls.

I applaud SV for what there trying here, and the constant digging of MO/SV from the same forum posters daily really grinds my gears, ok you don't like it we get now go play SWTOR or some other game thats far more polished.

I can think of lots of games with better graphics and "immersion" (very subjective) than MO. Far far better in every other way too.

You have never played MO and do not play MO now (just going by your signature), so I am curious why you think the game is so great but do not play it. Why is that?

Originally posted by Betel

Originally posted by Feather5
Fact is you either support the only game with decent graphics and immersion or you sit here and moan about its pit falls.

I applaud SV for what there trying here, and the constant digging of MO/SV from the same forum posters daily really grinds my gears, ok you don't like it we get now go play SWTOR or some other game thats far more polished.

 

I can think of lots of games with better graphics and "immersion" (very subjective) than MO. Far far better in every other way too.

 

You have never played MO and do not play MO now (just going by your signature), so I am curious why you think the game is so great but do not play it. Why is that?

So games need to be in his sig or he haven´t played it? I really like your logic. You really need to start thinking "outside the box" and maybe, just maybe, he and others have tried other games even though it doesn´t say so in the persons sig etc. Or the fact that you couldn´t grasp that I tried other games if I love MO so much. Wow... and not as in World of Warcraft-wow. But wow as in how can you keep this going?

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by ltank

So if there was an actual 50% increase in sales, even if it was a small number of people, it's STILL a 50% increase. The percentages in no way were altered or edited and I challenge you to prove otherwise using the context of the time frame they were talking about.

 

Thanks for helping me prove my point, you probably don't even see it because of your bias. this is actually very funny.

Just like I thought; you can in no way whatsoever, prove that they manipulated (changed) the percentage values.

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by ltank

So if there was an actual 50% increase in sales, even if it was a small number of people, it's STILL a 50% increase. The percentages in no way were altered or edited and I challenge you to prove otherwise using the context of the time frame they were talking about.

 

Thanks for helping me prove my point, you probably don't even see it because of your bias. this is actually very funny.

Just like I thought; you can in no way whatsoever, prove that they manipulated (changed) the percentage values.

Nor can they backup their claim that there is any significant increase of sales. Because they don't provide numbers. So if they sold 4 before and now they sold 6, its 50% sales increase, [mod edit]

Originally posted by ltank

 

Just like I thought; you can in no way whatsoever, prove that they manipulated (changed) the percentage values.

Manipulation of facts for propaganda purposes is nothing new and is quite obvious in this case.

They sold very few clients (the game is terrible so no surprise there) but needed some advertising and good news for the remaining shareholders. So they gave a meaningless % figure instead of the real numerical values.

It's a similar scam to Henrik always referring to forum member numbers as a some kind of guide to MO's popularity in stock reports. The actual subscriber base is so low he doesn't want to give figures for that, it would lead to his remaining shareholders and possible investors turning their back on the car crash that is SV's finances.

Post I was quoting appeared to have been deleted, so editing this.

Originally posted by Betel

Originally posted by ltank

 

Just like I thought; you can in no way whatsoever, prove that they manipulated (changed) the percentage values.

Manipulation of facts for propaganda purposes is nothing new and is quite obvious in this case.

They sold very few clients (the game is terrible so no surprise there) but needed some advertising and good news for the remaining shareholders. So they gave a meaningless % figure instead of the real numerical values.

It's a similar scam to Henrik always referring to forum member numbers as a some kind of guide to MO's popularity in stock reports. The actual subscriber base is so low he doesn't want to give figures for that, it would lead to his remaining shareholders and possible investors turning their back on the car crash that is SV's finances.

Pretty much this. When there is a slight population increase they didn't hesitate to point that out if I am not mistaking. If they use any other number or words than actual active subsciption, knowing Henrik it means he tries to weasel his way around mentioning that it been decreased.

Originally posted by Betel

Originally posted by ltank

 

Just like I thought; you can in no way whatsoever, prove that they manipulated (changed) the percentage values.

 

Manipulation of facts for propaganda purposes is nothing new and is quite obvious in this case.

They sold very few clients (the game is terrible so no surprise there) but needed some advertising and good news for the remaining shareholders. So they gave a meaningless % figure instead of the real numerical values.

It's a similar scam to Henrik always referring to forum member numbers as a some kind of guide to MO's popularity in stock reports. The actual subscriber base is so low he doesn't want to give figures for that, it would lead to his remaining shareholders and possible investors turning their back on the car crash that is SV's finances.

 

You're probably wrong too.

What you must know is, the remaining sandbox games are competing against each others in term of sells and subs. In the sandbox radar, i cant see nothing else, but MO, DF and some other fail sandbox. Should i include shadowbane EMU to be fair?

The MO increase anouncement happened a month or so after DF announced a wipe.(A reason to leave that game) Players transfered from EU1 server to NA1 server. EU1 is now pretty dead with 1 small sub island active(Cairn).  NA1 is healthy as never before.

Playing DF with high ping is pretty bad so not all players from EU can handle NA1 if they get over 200 pings. So their best choice can be to leave while waiting for 2.0 and buying mortal online instead. Thats how MO subs managed to rise i think. If you do transfer from EU1 to NA1, you lose all your bank and items on your character. Plus  a wipe announcement for DF, most EU1 players give'd up. Do you remember the myrm clan from MO? They tried DF long ago and today, they're back to MO. I followed some of their post in some MO recent youtube videos.

Now, look. I dont play MO. The bugs, the low pop and other incomplete stuff are not the reason i'm not subcribed to the game. I need to upgreate or buy a new computer. Even after that, i wouldnt subcribe for 1 reason. I'm an NA player and MO only as 1EU server. I tried MO open beta and pvp is not playable with high ping. So yeah, you'il see me defend the game even if i'm not subbed to it.

Also, what are you talking about? Nowadays, anyone can refere to MO forum members count. They're marked as players or those who got access to public only. Count the players and you got your sub. Its pretty hard to compar that to wow forum and the fact that only subscribed players can post.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

You're probably wrong too.

What you must know is, the remaining sandbox games are competing against each others in term of sells and subs. In the sandbox radar, i cant see nothing else, but MO, DF and some other fail sandbox. Should i include shadowbane EMU to be fair?

> implying Eve, Minecraft, Wurm, Perpetuum and all the other games you didn't mention simply don't exist.

Originally posted by RedRocket

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

You're probably wrong too.

What you must know is, the remaining sandbox games are competing against each others in term of sells and subs. In the sandbox radar, i cant see nothing else, but MO, DF and some other fail sandbox. Should i include shadowbane EMU to be fair?

> implying Eve, Minecraft, Wurm, Perpetuum and all the other games you didn't mention simply don't exist.

Joke aside(Wurm/minecraft, didnt deserve a mention)

My point is, what kind of players do you think MO attract the most?

I did my research. EVE online or perpetuum players are not the same as MO and DF. They probably wont jump on each others game. They will quit before they can either survive or understanding the meta game(Its not about levels).

A Typical eve player wont play DF or MO because of the FPS aspect and the limit on awarness. Eve is third person, but far far away from your ship like in world of warcraft. So you can easily feel whats going on around you. The eve players who tried DF or MO says that they are scare of the game because they can easily get sneaked on and ganked in a moment. They say that if they had to be stuck with DF/mo, they would stay in the NPC city, where they can feel safe and where they don't need to develop awarness from first person view and listening to the sound effects to locate your enemies.(I'm still shaking when i play DF)

As for a DF player jumping in EVE, i will take my opinion. EVE takes too much patient. As soon that i heard mathematic in a forum pvp discussion, i had to leave. I'm done with school, i'm not going back. I saw a youtube pvp video, i can'T tell whats going on. I really cant see myself in EVE. Beside, i'm an RTS player and i really thought i could like EVE by watching youtube videos.