Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | EverQuest

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,920,517 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,311,790
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » item decay

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
59 posts found
  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

3/14/12 10:34:01 PM#21
Originally posted by Disdena
Originally posted by bishbosh
Originally posted by Disdena
Originally posted by Vrika

 

2) People want to progress and get stronger. If the reward for playing some content is being able to keep your character's power from detoriating it's very anticlimatic.


 

Best reason I've seen so far. Gaining a permanent boost (like leveling up) feels good. Gaining resources that temporarily boost you (like an item that will break as it is used) feels much worse, especially when just running the content is guaranteed to deplete your resources regardless of whether you do well or not.

you can still improve your characters power with an item decay system. when you start out the game you have a crappy item and with it you can farm mainly crappy monsters or raids (in themepark games) that give crappy mats. during the time it takes your item to decay you craft a better item. then you farm stronger monsters or raids that give slighty better items and you can make better items etc etc etc

eventually all players should reach a plateu (this plateu should not take long to reach) where it is equally hard to get stronger as it is to get weaker in terms of gear. this plateau will depend on how you play the game (good desicions vs bad desicions, take risks or play it safe etc)

if you make poor desicions, get killed too much etc etc you might end up with a weaker item next time it comes to replacing that item. 

another advantage of this system is that players are rewarded for the desicions making and skill rather than the time spent since items decay faster the more you play.  in bound item systems whoever no-lifes  raid content will have the best gear. in my opininion mmorpgs should try and avoid rewarding players for time spent.

lately the trend has been to reward players based on time spent rather than intelligent thinking because everyone has time but not many people have intelligence.

 

It's just my opinion, but I feel that that runs counter to a core RPG mechanic. You're supposed to be rewarded for time spent. Being more "skilled" means you get more of a reward for the time you invest, whether that skill is running quests in most optimal order to get them done quickly, or refraining from crafting items that are not profitable, or making decisions in combat that don't get them killed.

The incentive to play better is that skilled players advance at a faster rate, but everyone except the most thick-headed ought to be able to plod forward at some pace, even if it's slow. You shouldn't reach a point where you say "From here on out, when I log in, I'm just treading water to stay in the same place unless I improve." That's appropriate for other games, like platformers (in Mega Man 2, if you're not good enough to beat Air Man's stage, you can't see the rest of the game until you improve). It's not appropriate for an MMORPG.


I'm sorry, level cap wants to say hi.

  User Deleted
3/14/12 10:38:21 PM#22
Originally posted by bishbosh

why dont more devs use this as an alternative to bound items.  it allows for inflationless player economy without resorting to full loot/destruction upon death

 

item decay occur occur upon use of items (minor decay)

or upon death (major decay)

or maybe both?

 

once the item has completely decayed you have to find a replacement. that way crafting is useful, there is an active economy and there is constantly something to do ie. ind/craft/buy good replacement weapons/armor

 

This comes down to two things in my opinion:

 

1) The general game design used for the majority of MMO's (raiding is not decay friendly imho).

 

2) Player conception/reaction

 

Ultima Online to me is a good example.   I don't remember if there was a limit on number of repairs a smith could do to an item (or later the deeds they could make so non smith's could repair).

 

However, in early UO... item decay was basicly when you died... other players could loot you and npc's would loot you.   Granted if you could find the monster you might get your stuff back or if you killed the player you might.. but people obviously lost stuff.

 

Now I know a lot of people who just raged and quit over losing... complete crap.   I mean my entire guild quit when our tower got looted and really it was just chests full of crap.. complete junk.   (now maybe you get why I say raiding MMO's are not a good design currently for decay because those items aren't really junk.. but anyway..)

 

The thing was in UO I crafted everything I used.   I didn't care if I died and was looted because I had 5 to 6 complete setups in my bank... go to bank grab bag open bag... equip armor/weapon etc good to go... small selection of regs everything I needed.   Total loss of items on death was such a small amount even if you had to buy the gear.  

 

I sold gimp suits as we later called them .. complete with a weapon of every type and a shield for like 2500 gold.   2500 gold in UO did not take long to make... and my vendor became like a full time job but I had gold stored everywhere. 

 

You need a game that is basicly designed with player crafting in mind in order to have decay.   Now UO early on had "magic items" like armor of invuln and weapons of vanq... but I never felt at a handicap in PvP when I was using my crafted stuff... I didn't really die that often in UO after about the first month.

 

The problem with most games after UO that had good crafting... was the way it worked.

 

Two examples...

 

Star Wars Galaxies and Dark Age of Camelot.

 

In SWG because of the multitude of resource quality... having to replace your prized weapon/armor... was almost as bad as a raiding game.   Simply because if you broke something... you might find that the only replacements for sale were junk in comparison.   This is why in my opinion... having resources that spawn at various quality levels is a bad idea.

 

In DAoC I remember when I got my reaver to 50... and someone was telling me how much a suit of chain mail would cost.. how much it would cost to spell craft it... and to be honest I'd never had that much plat in the game to begin with.   The idea here being... when it cost so much in game money to get an item made... that the national debt of the US seems small in comparison... something is wrong with your design.

 

The problem overall is... so you design a game with a good crafting system and you can have item decay.   Except the majority of your potential player base is used to forming up their "leet" guild and being able to raid for the best stuff... so what exactly do you raid for?   Because... if you make crafting raid related.. then you are going to fall into one of the traps previously mentioned... like having it be so hard to replace gear that people would rather quit then deal with decay..

 

Sorry for the wall of text but that's pretty much how i see the market.

 

Now if you had a developer that could make a game and be happy with a concurrent subscriber number of 200,000 to 300,000... (obviously that's a guess on my part lolz..)  then you might get that game made...

 

Which I guess leads to another problem... most companies that would make that game... are so underfunded or clueless... I wouldn't want to play the game personally... even tho the general idea is what I am looking for in an MMO.

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

 
OP  3/14/12 10:42:36 PM#23

It's just my opinion, but I feel that that runs counter to a core RPG mechanic. You're supposed to be rewarded for time spent. Being more "skilled" means you get more of a reward for the time you invest, whether that skill is running quests in most optimal order to get them done quickly, or refraining from crafting items that are not profitable, or making decisions in combat that don't get them killed.

The incentive to play better is that skilled players advance at a faster rate, but everyone except the most thick-headed ought to be able to plod forward at some pace, even if it's slow. You shouldn't reach a point where you say "From here on out, when I log in, I'm just treading water to stay in the same place unless I improve." That's appropriate for other games, like platformers (in Mega Man 2, if you're not good enough to beat Air Man's stage, you can't see the rest of the game until you improve). It's not appropriate for an MMORPG.

 i woudlnt say its not appropriate. if we disregard gameplay mechanics because they dont "fit" mmorpgs will just continue ot be clones.  item decay is a different reward mechanic that could be implemented  and i think it would be much better. it actually allows casual players a chance to compete with jobless basement dwellers <<-- isnt this the latest trend?. i think this mechanic is superior  to bound items as it is

1. casual friendly from a time perspective

2. allows for a player economy and thus greater gameplay depth

 

it seems the industry is trying to move away from time based rewards but they are doing it wrong by making things too easy and implementing stupid systems like rested EXP.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/14/12 10:51:41 PM#24
Originally posted by Disdena

It's just my opinion, but I feel that that runs counter to a core RPG mechanic. You're supposed to be rewarded for time spent.

The entitlement runs deep in this one.

 

If that was true, then a DnD campaign wouldn't have been about mapping through unknown paths, disarming traps, outwitting or defeating your enemy, and getting to the goal alive.  What RPG was ever about the time spent?

 

If DnD had been invented by today's gamers, the dungeon would be two 10x10 rooms. The first one for the party to spin in place and constantly roll for random encounters, and the second room to pop open filled with purple loot after their dizzied characters reached the level cap in the first one.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Judith48

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 5

3/14/12 10:52:29 PM#25

A small group of elite players will tackle the hardest content, and less-skilled players will farm easier content for those elite players in exchange for elite player's rare drops.

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

 
OP  3/14/12 11:08:26 PM#26
Originally posted by Antarious
Originally posted by bishbosh

why dont more devs use this as an alternative to bound items.  it allows for inflationless player economy without resorting to full loot/destruction upon death

 

item decay occur occur upon use of items (minor decay)

or upon death (major decay)

or maybe both?

 

once the item has completely decayed you have to find a replacement. that way crafting is useful, there is an active economy and there is constantly something to do ie. ind/craft/buy good replacement weapons/armor

 

This comes down to two things in my opinion:

 

1) The general game design used for the majority of MMO's (raiding is not decay friendly imho).

 

2) Player conception/reaction

 

Ultima Online to me is a ............. *SNIP*

raiding could be crafting/decay friendly

its just about getting it right

 

say on average a set of gear lasts 5 raids . therefore a 20 man raid will need to farm 20 sets of gear in 5 raids in order to continue raid progression.

1. if they perform poorly in the raids they will acquire enough mats to gear up their whole raid group and progressing to the next tier raid would be risky/difficult and they might have to redo a current tier/lower teir  raid until they are geared.

2. if they succeed they will most likely have a fair chance of success with the next higher tier raid. they might even have some surplus mats as back or to sell on the market.

this flow is fairly similar to what happens with bound item systems except it allows for a player economy and the ability to acquire raid quality gear through trade. people who dont like raiding can whatever they like doing and receive good rewards. players will not be forced to raid. if you dont like non raiders getting raid gear, well then its up to you to not sell your raid gear on the market.

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

 
OP  3/14/12 11:16:33 PM#27
Originally posted by Judith48

A small group of elite players will tackle the hardest content, and less-skilled players will farm easier content for those elite players in exchange for elite player's rare drops.

what is wrong with this?

1. by "less skilled" you mean someone who doesnt raid? in my opinion raiding is a skillless gear fest. raid  PVE offers little challenge compared to PVP.

1.  i highly doubt that "less skilled" players would be able to farm anything of worth of value to a raider. i also dont think raiders will have much raid gear to spare considering they will have to requip themselves due to decay.

2.  if the non raider does manage to acquire enough capital by say for example playing the market (in my opinion this requires 10x the amount of brain a raider uses) well props to him, he deserves whatever people are willing to sell to him based what he can offer.

  XNephalimX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 89

3/15/12 12:27:14 AM#28

Decay is a holistic tool and it has its place in every mmorpg that offers both combat and social/economic gameplay. Its not really about thempark vs sandbox but keeping your game working well in the short, medium and longterm. :)

In a raid based or level based game, imagine you were to go get this really awesome suit of pwnage, and if you never lost it? what reason would you have to go do that raid again or any other? Ok, you can go do it again to help someone else get it, like a guildee for instance, then you have two people who never have to run that raid again and so on and so on. Raids are finite gameplay as well, its not an unlimited pool of gameplay you can tap into all the time. People get sick of it when its easy to do, easy to find and complete and raids do not make up 99% of the gaming experience, if they do, then a designer should consider just wtf he is doing with his game because at that point, raiding is a friggin job, a chore. Dont be misled.

In terms of what it brings to crafting, it provides meaning for the craft. You craft to sell goods, you sell goods to make currency and you cant sell goods if everyone has them already. So people need to think in terms of game replayability too. It has nothing  to do with some silly punishment, it has nothing to do with chores or fun, it has nothing to do with level vs skill, its about controlling the entry and exit of items and providing a sustainable gameplay model.

If youre having problems with fun in your mmo, its not going to be because of decay. Its probably because your gameplay is just boring anyway.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/15/12 3:32:20 AM#29
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Quirhid

It is largely an annoyance because it doesn't bring any more depth to the adventuring side of things. Generally you cannot focus on destroying your enemy's armor/weapon during combat. When something breaks its a random event or due to someone slacking on their repairs.

Item decay has been used as a form of temporary death penalty (which can also be done with debuffs) but I don't see it working as a means to promote crafting.

It's fairly simple.  Items get destroyed and must be replaced.  Crafters make the new items.

It doesn't work well in level based games because most of the items are not crafted.  Also, before you hit max level, you're changing gear every other day nothing has time to decay.  Crafters are mass producing low level gear just to level up their crafting skill and there simply is no market for it.

The system works great in Eve.  Other games simply choose not to follow a good example.

Items do not decay in Eve as you use them. Not unless you are overheating. And repair fees only rarely go to any player. You can't even target a specific system of the ship, like enemy's engines for example, like in some other games. In Eve, players lose their ship and some of the stuff they had in it gets destroyed. There is no item decay.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/15/12 3:37:32 AM#30
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Quirhid

It is largely an annoyance because it doesn't bring any more depth to the adventuring side of things. Generally you cannot focus on destroying your enemy's armor/weapon during combat. When something breaks its a random event or due to someone slacking on their repairs.

Item decay has been used as a form of temporary death penalty (which can also be done with debuffs) but I don't see it working as a means to promote crafting.

That is not true at all. If items do not decay the economy stagnates. Do you know how much of the real world economy is based on things deteriorating?

We both know that real world doesn't make a good game. Everybody needs to eat, sleep in real life. Is that a fun thing to have in a game? How about permanent injury and death?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/15/12 3:46:56 AM#31
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Quirhid

It is largely an annoyance because it doesn't bring any more depth to the adventuring side of things. Generally you cannot focus on destroying your enemy's armor/weapon during combat. When something breaks its a random event or due to someone slacking on their repairs.

Item decay has been used as a form of temporary death penalty (which can also be done with debuffs) but I don't see it working as a means to promote crafting.

It's fairly simple.  Items get destroyed and must be replaced.  Crafters make the new items.

It doesn't work well in level based games because most of the items are not crafted.  Also, before you hit max level, you're changing gear every other day nothing has time to decay.  Crafters are mass producing low level gear just to level up their crafting skill and there simply is no market for it.

The system works great in Eve.  Other games simply choose not to follow a good example.

Items do not decay in Eve as you use them. Not unless you are overheating. And repair fees only rarely go to any player. You can't even target a specific system of the ship, like enemy's engines for example, like in some other games. In Eve, players lose their ship and some of the stuff they had in it gets destroyed. There is no item decay.

That's what he said - "items get destroyed and must be replaced." Since the market is almost entirely comprised of player-made goods, it fuels manufacturing as there is always a market for the goods, including those that low level crafters can make.  Whether decay or destruction, they are both parts of the same goal the OP is describing, which is the removal of crafted goods from the system to support the crafting side of gameplay.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/15/12 3:54:11 AM#32
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Quirhid

It is largely an annoyance because it doesn't bring any more depth to the adventuring side of things. Generally you cannot focus on destroying your enemy's armor/weapon during combat. When something breaks its a random event or due to someone slacking on their repairs.

Item decay has been used as a form of temporary death penalty (which can also be done with debuffs) but I don't see it working as a means to promote crafting.

It's fairly simple.  Items get destroyed and must be replaced.  Crafters make the new items.

It doesn't work well in level based games because most of the items are not crafted.  Also, before you hit max level, you're changing gear every other day nothing has time to decay.  Crafters are mass producing low level gear just to level up their crafting skill and there simply is no market for it.

The system works great in Eve.  Other games simply choose not to follow a good example.

Items do not decay in Eve as you use them. Not unless you are overheating. And repair fees only rarely go to any player. You can't even target a specific system of the ship, like enemy's engines for example, like in some other games. In Eve, players lose their ship and some of the stuff they had in it gets destroyed. There is no item decay.

That's what he said - "items get destroyed and must be replaced." Since the market is almost entirely comprised of player-made goods, it fuels manufacturing as there is always a market for the goods, including those that low level crafters can make.  Whether decay or destruction, they are both parts of the same goal the OP is describing, which is the removal of crafted goods from the system to support the crafting side of gameplay.

 

Well i make a distinction between decay and destruction.

EDIT: Because you can have either without the other.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/15/12 3:56:56 AM#33

"Well i make a distinction between decay and destruction.

EDIT: Because you can have either without the other."

Agreed. Either can be used to reach the OP's goal, which is to promote/support crafting.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

 
OP  3/15/12 4:00:30 AM#34
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Quirhid

It is largely an annoyance because it doesn't bring any more depth to the adventuring side of things. Generally you cannot focus on destroying your enemy's armor/weapon during combat. When something breaks its a random event or due to someone slacking on their repairs.

Item decay has been used as a form of temporary death penalty (which can also be done with debuffs) but I don't see it working as a means to promote crafting.

That is not true at all. If items do not decay the economy stagnates. Do you know how much of the real world economy is based on things deteriorating?

We both know that real world doesn't make a good game. Everybody needs to eat, sleep in real life. Is that a fun thing to have in a game? How about permanent injury and death?

what you just did is what is called a strawman argument. you exaggerated an argument being made by the opposition and then took apart that exaggerated argument and assumed you had proved something.

no one here is saying make a game like the real world. if incorporating aspects of the real world into a game can improve the game then do it.

example1: item decay + proper economy.

example2: bullet drop in first person shooters

 

from yoour previous post i dont think you understand how item decay works. essentially an item has a durability. once this durability is exhausted the item is destroyed. repairs do not stop the items destruction but can prolong the items life by a short amount. items do not break due to a random event or people slacking on repairs.

 

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

3/15/12 4:04:12 AM#35
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Disdena

It's just my opinion, but I feel that that runs counter to a core RPG mechanic. You're supposed to be rewarded for time spent.

The entitlement runs deep in this one.

 

If that was true, then a DnD campaign wouldn't have been about mapping through unknown paths, disarming traps, outwitting or defeating your enemy, and getting to the goal alive.  What RPG was ever about the time spent?

 

If DnD had been invented by today's gamers, the dungeon would be two 10x10 rooms. The first one for the party to spin in place and constantly roll for random encounters, and the second room to pop open filled with purple loot after their dizzied characters reached the level cap in the first one.

 

 

Lol, I hate to think of what a PnP session with MMO mechanics would have been like, one room to go and fight each other in without consequence, Weird Dave never getting picked to go in the dungeon room because he missed last Friday and so his chest piece isn't the best.
  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/15/12 4:12:07 AM#36
Originally posted by bishbosh
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Quirhid

It is largely an annoyance because it doesn't bring any more depth to the adventuring side of things. Generally you cannot focus on destroying your enemy's armor/weapon during combat. When something breaks its a random event or due to someone slacking on their repairs.

Item decay has been used as a form of temporary death penalty (which can also be done with debuffs) but I don't see it working as a means to promote crafting.

That is not true at all. If items do not decay the economy stagnates. Do you know how much of the real world economy is based on things deteriorating?

We both know that real world doesn't make a good game. Everybody needs to eat, sleep in real life. Is that a fun thing to have in a game? How about permanent injury and death?

what you just did is what is called a strawman argument. you exaggerated an argument being made by the opposition and then took apart that exaggerated argument and assumed you had proved something.

no one here is saying make a game like the real world. if incorporating aspects of the real world into a game can improve the game then do it.

example1: item decay + proper economy.

example2: bullet drop in first person shooters

 

from yoour previous post i dont think you understand how item decay works. essentially an item has a durability. once this durability is exhausted the item is destroyed. repairs do not stop the items destruction but can prolong the items life by a short amount. items do not break due to a random event or people slacking on repairs.

 

He made a statement that without item decay market becomes stagnant. His only argument in favor of this statement was that much of real life economy relies on things deteriorating and that argument is ridiculous - and I gave examples showing that. More often than not, real life translates badly to videogames.

I do get item decay. You can have decay without destroying the item. Just as you can have destruction without decay. I'm sure you don't need examples of this. Item decay does not promote crafting as much as item destruction does. As its been implemented in the past, item decay  is also a major source of annoyance for many players so I do not recommend using it as a means to promote crafting.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

 
OP  3/15/12 4:16:58 AM#37
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by bishbosh
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Quirhid

It is largely an annoyance because it doesn't bring any more depth to the adventuring side of things. Generally you cannot focus on destroying your enemy's armor/weapon during combat. When something breaks its a random event or due to someone slacking on their repairs.

Item decay has been used as a form of temporary death penalty (which can also be done with debuffs) but I don't see it working as a means to promote crafting.

That is not true at all. If items do not decay the economy stagnates. Do you know how much of the real world economy is based on things deteriorating?

We both know that real world doesn't make a good game. Everybody needs to eat, sleep in real life. Is that a fun thing to have in a game? How about permanent injury and death?

what you just did is what is called a strawman argument. you exaggerated an argument being made by the opposition and then took apart that exaggerated argument and assumed you had proved something.

no one here is saying make a game like the real world. if incorporating aspects of the real world into a game can improve the game then do it.

example1: item decay + proper economy.

example2: bullet drop in first person shooters

 

from yoour previous post i dont think you understand how item decay works. essentially an item has a durability. once this durability is exhausted the item is destroyed. repairs do not stop the items destruction but can prolong the items life by a short amount. items do not break due to a random event or people slacking on repairs.

 

He made a statement that without item decay market becomes stagnant. His only argument in favor of this statement was that much of real life economy relies on things deteriorating and that argument is ridiculous - and I gave examples showing that. More often than not, real life translates badly to videogames.

I do get item decay. You can have decay without destroying the item. Just as you can have destruction without decay. I'm sure you don't need examples of this. Item decay does not promote crafting as much as item destruction does. As its been implemented in the past, item decay  is also a major source of annoyance for many players so I do not recommend using it as a means to promote crafting.

by item decay i meant the item decays till it breaks and is destroyed.

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

3/15/12 4:26:19 AM#38

People just hate the fact they can loose their items, and they watch only the negative aspects of it, like the fact you'll be without weapon in a middle of a fight which is really easy for a dev to not make it happen. But they are a lot of benefit from item breaking, or more generally item consumption that is a much more general aspect. Uo had a good wear and tears system, with some rare deed that could make something unbreakable, rare enough so that people couldn't afford more than one or 2 unbreakable items. Imo that was a good option. I also love the item quality feature H&H have, i think mmo would get a lot if they implement item quality too.

  Warmaker

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2240

3/15/12 4:27:01 AM#39
Originally posted by bishbosh

why dont more devs use this as an alternative to bound items.  it allows for inflationless player economy without resorting to full loot/destruction upon death

 

item decay occur occur upon use of items (minor decay)

or upon death (major decay)

or maybe both?

 

once the item has completely decayed you have to find a replacement. that way crafting is useful, there is an active economy and there is constantly something to do ie. ind/craft/buy good replacement weapons/armor

I'd go one further and say 1 character per server.  On top of decaying items, and a decent crafting system, then you'd have the sound foundation of a good player-run economy.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

 
OP  3/15/12 4:37:34 AM#40
Originally posted by Warmaker
Originally posted by bishbosh

why dont more devs use this as an alternative to bound items.  it allows for inflationless player economy without resorting to full loot/destruction upon death

 

item decay occur occur upon use of items (minor decay)

or upon death (major decay)

or maybe both?

 

once the item has completely decayed you have to find a replacement. that way crafting is useful, there is an active economy and there is constantly something to do ie. ind/craft/buy good replacement weapons/armor

I'd go one further and say 1 character per server.  On top of decaying items, and a decent crafting system, then you'd have the sound foundation of a good player-run economy.

why only 1 character per server?

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search