Hello all,

I want to talk about what I have been experiencing, as many of you, in videogames, but also in other kind of games, in movies, in television and in politics somehow, although I will leave politics aside since it's more complex to debate.

I will soon be 50 years old so I have some perspective on the matter.

See, in the 20th century, in which I had the fortune to live for 38 years, we had good and bad movies,  good and bad games, and good and bad TV shows. But they had one thing in common, good and bad. They were real. And by real I mean, they were honest efforts to give the people which consumed them, a good experience. Sometimes they failed, but they were honest.

But suddenly, let's say for simplicity, from the year 2000, there has been a subtle yet sudden change in all those areas. Yes we still have good and bad movies, good and bad games, etc, as always. But something is different. If you look closely, all those products lack something. They are like plastic somehow. Even the very good ones feel different from the masterpieces of before. They lack soul. Of course there are exceptions, but not many. I can't stop having the feeling that they are fake.

I ask myself why is this happening? Is it because the executives nowadays have a say on the final product released to the public? I certainly have read about this happening sometimes. It's because the products are now more expensive and the investors don't want to risk it and resort to simple formulas? or to easier designs that appeal to a less demanding audience? Or it's simply that I got old and don't enjoy the new things as I did when i was 20 or 30?

Whatever the reason, it's really sad to see this happening. I really miss the amazing things we had not so long ago.

A lot of the perception is through rose tinted glasses fella when it comes to games and how simplistic we accepted them to be back then. What once seemed complex and immersive rarely does when one revisits the past.

The 2000's have provided some of the best TV shows ever made, Deadwood and The Wire to name but a couple. Movies i wouldn't touch on as not many stand out so far this century but there's a wealth from the whole preceeding one.

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Originally posted by Metentso
I ask myself why is this happening?

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As you get older, you gain more experience and your perspective changes. Some people, like yourself, tend to yearn for how it was in your previous perspective. Things seemed better when your pool of reference was smaller.

Perhaps it is time to change up your perspective? Or embrace your new one.

Clones, they may look like the original, but we all know they are different.

The same applys to MMO's these days, clones without the soul of the original.

Here is my take on it as being in my mid 40's gives me the same perspective that the OP has. In the last 10-15 years we have seen graphics advance leaps and bounds over what came before. This has saturated not only the video game market but also the special effects industry for TV and Movies. Before we had games, TV shows and movies that really had to concentrate on the story(or game play as well for games) to make up for the rather limited visuals. This was the main focus of any media release and when it wasn't those releases were considered 'bad'. There were of course a few exceptions like the Star Wars franchise from the late 70's/early 80's but even those have been beefed up with new special effects in the last 10 or so years.

What we have now is a paradigm shift in focus from the story based media (Game play and story based for games) to a more visual experience. Now special effects take center stage and if it has a good story as well it's considered a bonus. This is why these new media releases seem to be more plastic as even though they look fantastic they lack the multilevel depth of story (and game play for games) that the media of the past seemed to do so well. There are some exceptions but these don't seem to do as well as the Micheal Bay's of the world do. People today seem to want more flash than substance and this is why some of the highest grossing movies leave me scratching my head as to why people except this and even in some cases demand it.

Bren

Originally posted by Metentso

Hello all,

I want to talk about what I have been experiencing, as many of you, in videogames, but also in other kind of games, in movies, in television and in politics somehow, although I will leave politics aside since it's more complex to debate.

I will soon be 50 years old so I have some perspective on the matter.

See, in the 20th century, in which I had the fortune to live for 38 years, we had good and bad movies,  good and bad games, and good and bad TV shows. But they had one thing in common, good and bad. They were real. And by real I mean, they were honest efforts to give the people which consumed them, a good experience. Sometimes they failed, but they were honest.

But suddenly, let's say for simplicity, from the year 2000, there has been a subtle yet sudden change in all those areas. Yes we still have good and bad movies, good and bad games, etc, as always. But something is different. If you look closely, all those products lack something. They are like plastic somehow. Even the very good ones feel different from the masterpieces of before. They lack soul. Of course there are exceptions, but not many. I can't stop having the feeling that they are fake.

I ask myself why is this happening? Is it because the executives nowadays have a say on the final product released to the public? I certainly have read about this happening sometimes. It's because the products are now more expensive and the investors don't want to risk it and resort to simple formulas? or to easier designs that appeal to a less demanding audience? Or it's simply that I got old and don't enjoy the new things as I did when i was 20 or 30?

Whatever the reason, it's really sad to see this happening. I really miss the amazing things we had not so long ago.

Sorry but I think many many many games/movies/books were just hackneyed cheap knockoffs not done to bring enjoyment or a labor of love, but done strictly to capitalize on a market blockbuster and rake in whatever money they could. 

So I really have to say you were definately looking at them through rose coloured glasses, either that you you were just more naive and trusting in those halcyon days.

Oh yeah, I agree.  Pac-man was a game with a lot of soul, and a deep riveting plot, unlike the shallow, graphics-intensive actiony games of today.

... and Miss Pac-man?  Totally a deep labor of love, and in no way an attempt to go to the well once more for more money.

Not to mention the hundreds of Pacman clones.  I swear, that was an era when game programmers only programmed stuff because they were trying to really improve the market, they didn't care about money, and they were trying to stretch the artistic bounds of what  a video game was about.

... or maybe people just forget all the shit, and think stuff that was mediocre was amazing because of rose-colored glasses and having less experience before.

Face it!  The moment you start talking about how things were better last millenium, you might as well get out your walker and start screaming at the kids to get off your damn yard.

... while regaling us with your tales of awesomeness.

http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo pretty much is everything you need to know about this kind of mental process. :)

Really not sure that you should have put TV shows into your thesis. Sure there's some horrible crap on TV these days but the best television of the 21st century is absolutely light years beyond what we got in the 20th century, for imagination, innovation, originality, and just plain soul.

Overall though, I have to say, it's not the century, it's not the products - it's you. You've gone beyond the nostalgia event horizon where everything now looks inferior to what you liked when you were younger. I'm there myself, partially - I'm not as old as you, but I'm at the point where I only like music and (oddly) comedy from last century. I can still appreciate 21st century action & drama, and gaming, but not music or comedy.

This is how our brains treat memories over time.  It's why there is a term coined nastalgia.  Humans have recognized this tendency for thousands of years.  We can try to reason it into fact all we want, but in the end, it's just subjective brain-altered BS.  Time heals all wounds they say.  Well, time also makes our memories happier.  That's just the way it goes.

Have movies and genre-focus in media changed?  Yeah, of course.  Things do change but it's not like actors and directors in this decade are soulless when compared to those 30 years ago.  Yes, we love movies from the olden days but if you watch them again, don't be shocked if you find them cheesy or poorly executed.  Take Jaws for example:  Decent plot, horrible acting by my estimation, terrible special effects, bad scene cuts, etc.  Great movie?  Hell yes!  But not really. 

Don't fret, OP.  We all go down this path.  I watched my grandparents do it, then my parents, and now me.  My suggestion is to smile when you think of the past and consider how your grandkids probably will feel the same way about the shit you hate now when they are 50 years old

:D

Grammar ~

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Originally posted by Banquetto
I can still appreciate 21st century action & drama, and gaming, but not music or comedy.

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Hey Seinfeld is probably my favorite sitcom of all time, but Louie is way up there with that and shows like 30 Rock and Always Sunny in Philly have some great comedic moments. Conan O'Brien is just as funny as he ever was.

Music is pretty bad imo, but I'm sure there are tons of people that are loving the hell outta this autotune technospasm stuff. There are some decent indie bands out there (no not all these so called "indie" bands that are signed to major labels).

I look at movies like the Back to the Future trilogy and Shawshank Redemption and Planes Trains and Automobiles and say why don't they make stuff like this anymore. Then I go see The Dark Knight, Inception, Star Trek, Super 8, The Fighter and There Will be Blood and say holy crap we have some amazing directors/actors right now.

It's all been done before. Quite often better.

Originally posted by RefMinor
You just need to choose what you consume, the great stuff is still out there, maybe not mainstream Hollywood, but there is a lot of good Indy movies, HBO does some great TV in the US, BBC & Channel 4 are still making great TV drama and comedy, learn to like subtitles (far better than dubbed IMO) and then you have a whole host of fantastic world cinema and TV open up.

 

Don't consume the crap, don't watch Michael Bay films, turn the TV off if there is nothing GOOD on, play a challenging game you enjoy, read a book, just don't settle for mediocre.

Your are very right but, see, the problem is, I'm talking about mainstream. Although maybe the same has happened to not mainstream, but that's another debate. I mean, where are the kubricks, coppolas and hitchcocks of today? Where are the EQ, UO, HL, Doom of today? We have now the same we had before, only simplified and souless, IMO.

About the rose tinted glasses theory, which probably has some truth in it, or the first kiss theory, ok, it might be true. But what if your first girlfriend was Meg Ryan? People will say, bah it's just the first kiss, but no, it was Meg Ryan! It's hard to convince anyone that wasn't there, cause now she doesn't look ultra cute as she did in 1985. Similarly, you can't know how EQ was in 1999-2001 cause that game does not exist anymore. Even if you could, your perspective on it is not the same as it was in that time, it cannot be seen in the same light. We need the "new" EQ, Doom, etc...

I really forgot to add music. Same thing.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Oh yeah, I agree.  Pac-man was a game with a lot of soul, and a deep riveting plot, unlike the shallow, graphics-intensive actiony games of today.

... and Miss Pac-man?  Totally a deep labor of love, and in no way an attempt to go to the well once more for more money.

Not to mention the hundreds of Pacman clones.  I swear, that was an era when game programmers only programmed stuff because they were trying to really improve the market, they didn't care about money, and they were trying to stretch the artistic bounds of what  a video game was about.

... or maybe people just forget all the shit, and think stuff that was mediocre was amazing because of rose-colored glasses and having less experience before.

Face it!  The moment you start talking about how things were better last millenium, you might as well get out your walker and start screaming at the kids to get off your damn yard.

... while regaling us with your tales of awesomeness.

http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo pretty much is everything you need to know about this kind of mental process. :)

When did anyone in this thread claim there were no 'bad' things too?

Bren

Originally posted by Metentso

Hello all,

I want to talk about what I have been experiencing, as many of you, in videogames, but also in other kind of games, in movies, in television and in politics somehow, although I will leave politics aside since it's more complex to debate.

I will soon be 50 years old so I have some perspective on the matter.

See, in the 20th century, in which I had the fortune to live for 38 years, we had good and bad movies,  good and bad games, and good and bad TV shows. But they had one thing in common, good and bad. They were real. And by real I mean, they were honest efforts to give the people which consumed them, a good experience. Sometimes they failed, but they were honest.

But suddenly, let's say for simplicity, from the year 2000, there has been a subtle yet sudden change in all those areas. Yes we still have good and bad movies, good and bad games, etc, as always. But something is different. If you look closely, all those products lack something. They are like plastic somehow. Even the very good ones feel different from the masterpieces of before. They lack soul. Of course there are exceptions, but not many. I can't stop having the feeling that they are fake.

I ask myself why is this happening? Is it because the executives nowadays have a say on the final product released to the public? I certainly have read about this happening sometimes. It's because the products are now more expensive and the investors don't want to risk it and resort to simple formulas? or to easier designs that appeal to a less demanding audience? Or it's simply that I got old and don't enjoy the new things as I did when i was 20 or 30?

Whatever the reason, it's really sad to see this happening. I really miss the amazing things we had not so long ago.

And stay off his lawn!

In the last days of SWG me and a fellow player debated this a lot. Since he had an economical education he summed it up pretty nice. Economics is all about avoiding risks, everything else in this field is just an extension of that.

Investors will always choose a guaranteed 1 million in the hand now rather than 1 million each year over the next 4 years if those 4 millions are "just" highly probable. That's just the way it is.

It's just to much money involved to take a risk so they are just doing their jobs when maximising profit and  minimizing risk. That does not mean it's a good thing for the consumers though.

Yes I have also noticed the fake trend and it's not just nostalgia even though it plays a part, our whole society has become more fake for some reason.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Here is my take on it as being in my mid 40's gives me the same perspective that the OP has. In the last 10-15 years we have seen graphics advance leaps and bounds over what came before. This has saturated not only the video game market but also the special effects industry for TV and Movies. Before we had games, TV shows and movies that really had to concentrate on the story(or game play as well for games) to make up for the rather limited visuals. This was the main focus of any media release and when it wasn't those releases were considered 'bad'. There were of course a few exceptions like the Star Wars franchise from the late 70's/early 80's but even those have been beefed up with new special effects in the last 10 or so years.

 

What we have now is a paradigm shift in focus from the story based media (Game play and story based for games) to a more visual experience. Now special effects take center stage and if it has a good story as well it's considered a bonus. This is why these new media releases seem to be more plastic as even though they look fantastic they lack the multilevel depth of story (and game play for games) that the media of the past seemed to do so well. There are some exceptions but these don't seem to do as well as the Micheal Bay's of the world do. People today seem to want more flash than substance and this is why some of the highest grossing movies leave me scratching my head as to why people except this and even in some cases demand it.

 

Bren

     Gonna have to say that you summed  up my opinion on this well.  We need the substance and challenge factor to catch up to the glitz and flash factor.

Originally posted by DannyGlover

 

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Originally posted by Metentso
I ask myself why is this happening?

---

As you get older, you gain more experience and your perspective changes. Some people, like yourself, tend to yearn for how it was in your previous perspective. Things seemed better when your pool of reference was smaller.

Perhaps it is time to change up your perspective? Or embrace your new one.

I think its just the opposite.

The younger generation, not having known the difference, accepts what they receive as exceptional when, by previous standards, said service would be considered mediocre at best.

Truth of the matter is, people today tend to follow a "formula" when creating these games and movies. The reason? One reason may be the emphasis on college education. Before, game designers weren't required to have a degree to break into the industry. These days there are "game design schools" that pretty much teach you "how to make a video game". Rather than developing new techniques and ideas, they learn how to do things the way they've been done a million times before, and thats whats accepted into the industry.

Gaming, movies, they've become homogenized.

Look at this video, I think it's related to what I mean. Also read the comments, maybe it's not the dev's fault but people losing IQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REHisUBYUjo