Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by alancode

Unfortunatly not gonna happen, too many children and people who cannot download something without hand holding are now in this genre. Maybe Archeage, or SW?

Children could play really difficult games not that long ago. The game we had on C-64 and Amiga beats anything you can find today in difficulty by several times.

Age might be a factor in the chat but it does not mean you play better because you are older.

I've said it many times kids today have horrible parents who let Dora and Diego teach them everything. Now they are helpless, but luckily the future is catered to them. A world full of simpletons who are just smart enough to work the corporate machines, but not smart enough to ask questions.

i remember the good ole days, when games were more mature , and we had to activate our pcs by pumping pedals and transmit data thru the ether using drums. Things were definitely downhill when they invented the mouse, imo. Etching the characters on the screen  hitting your stylus with a rock had a certain charm that has never been recovered anymore.

Target audience.

Originally posted by adam_nox

one of the bigger myths rears it's ugly head again.  old mmo's weren't harder.  They were less intuitive, less refined, and generally poorly made, which may have indirectly made them more difficult to play, but you'd only value this if you want to reward stupidity, not eliminate it.

They where harder and its not a myth, one easy example would be the corpse runs in EQ.. dont get that these days as it takes too much time instead games like SW:TOW allow you instant rez yourself on the spot... i mean wtf why not just make it so you cant die problem solved..

The are other game mechanics that added things to the 1st generation of MMOs that made them amazing that has been slowly taken out of the current generation.. I am not saying the current generation had not brought some good things.. hell user interfaces in most MMOs are now awesome and probally in most part to WOW so yes wow and other have done some good things but taken away so much more.

Still i cant play themepark mmos these days as i get bored too fast getting to max lvl in a week then to just run the same old raids every day of the week.. no thanks..

Ill stick with niche like Darkfall and Mortal Online even if they have tons of issues the games just have somthing special that still gives me a thrill when playing...

MMO's should be accessible to all and everyone, but only let the good and smart players excell..

Maybe if you spend some time educating new and bad players instead of bitching them they would get better at the game..

Originally posted by Loke666

IQ usually means how good you are at math and it is hardly good way to measure how well someone play a MMO.

I had a guy in school who sucked so badly at math and hardly could spell his name even, yet he was great at any computer game (amiga at the time) and built a great stereo by stealing parts he found at the junkyard. it Looked really weird and I think he used parts from 6 recievers to make one...

I agree that MMOs should be more difficult than they are now, heck that goes for any games. But IQ is not really the issue here.

IQ tests measure more than mathemaic skills. They also test problem solving, critical thinking, and pattern recognition skills. Problem solving skills appear especially lacking in my observation of the average MMO player. Unfortunately, in an effort to claim those players' dollars (or pounds, or what have you), developers have removed or oversimplified "problems" in recent games, leaving the rest of us thirsty for a challenge.

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Originally posted by adam_nox
one of the bigger myths rears it's ugly head again.  old mmo's weren't harder.  They were less intuitive, less refined, and generally poorly made, which may have indirectly made them more difficult to play, but you'd only value this if you want to reward stupidity, not eliminate it.

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Pretty much spot on. People love being nostalgic about old games and how "hard" they were when in reality the limited experience these early MMO gamers would have had and lack of online guides were the main causes of this perception of difficulty. In the old days you didn't have a video channel like Tankspot holding your hand through every raid boss, and you didn't have a wiki telling you exactly how to complete every quest and find every rare piece of gear. Games aren't becoming easier, players are just putting in a heck of a lot more effort into strategic planning and collaborating with others to maximize their combat potential.

Thinking about it.. its not just MMORPGs getting dumbed down these days its anything that is an RPG, gone are the days of boulders gate type games with all the d&d stats you wanted instead we get dragon age 2 with nearly all the stats taken out as they wanted to make the game easier for people to get into :(

Originally posted by Vryheid

 

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Originally posted by adam_nox
one of the bigger myths rears it's ugly head again.  old mmo's weren't harder.  They were less intuitive, less refined, and generally poorly made, which may have indirectly made them more difficult to play, but you'd only value this if you want to reward stupidity, not eliminate it.

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Pretty much spot on. People love being nostalgic about old games and how "hard" they were when in reality the limited experience these early MMO gamers would have had and lack of online guides were the main causes of this perception of difficulty. In the old days you didn't have a video channel like Tankspot holding your hand through every raid boss, and you didn't have a wiki telling you exactly how to complete every quest and find every rare piece of gear. Games aren't becoming easier, players are just putting in a heck of a lot more effort into strategic planning and collaborating with others to maximize their combat potential.

again not true every MMORPG game out there had tons fo fan built sites with guides and item locations everything you could imagine to do with the game.. i think EQ literally had thousands of sites doing bascially the sames things.

What a dumb thread.  My step brother was max level in AC and he is an idiot.

Yeah EQ was so hard.  Standing for 3 hours in one spot killing the same mob as it spawned...Yawn.  It was so hard people had to pump caffinee to stay awake.  Waiting in a que for a special mob spawn was so leet too.  Was epic hard to get a number and wait.  Those rose colored glasses must be great.

Originally posted by Mage_Francis

What a dumb thread.  My step brother was max level in AC and he is an idiot.

maybe he just pretends to be an idiot lol

Originally posted by Horusra

Yeah EQ was so hard.  Standing for 3 hours in one spot killing the same mob as it spawned...Yawn.  It was so hard people had to pump caffinee to stay awake.  Waiting in a que for a special mob spawn was so leet too.  Was epic hard to get a number and wait.  Those rose colored glasses must be great.

Wasting your life camping a spawn all by your lonesome must have put a terrible strain on you. I bet I can get one of the Bronies around here to give you a hug. My friends and I were out raiding. Sorry if you never got out of Crushbone.

Originally posted by Thorbrand

That is all I have to ask for, we need challenge back and puzzles with content that actually requires the use of a brain the play some of the content. Where did MMOs turn into action adventures. I don't care if they make these games but taking over the title MMO, while no longer making MMOs is getting to me. There hasn't been a MMO made in the last 8yrs just all action adventures with online gameplay.

Yes, we need games like EQ1 or even Vanilla WOW back not this crap they give us today!

Please bring back MMOs that required and IQ above 50 to play!

What's your IQ? LOL!!!

Originally posted by Vryheid

 

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Originally posted by adam_nox
one of the bigger myths rears it's ugly head again.  old mmo's weren't harder.  They were less intuitive, less refined, and generally poorly made, which may have indirectly made them more difficult to play, but you'd only value this if you want to reward stupidity, not eliminate it.

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Pretty much spot on. People love being nostalgic about old games and how "hard" they were when in reality the limited experience these early MMO gamers would have had and lack of online guides were the main causes of this perception of difficulty. In the old days you didn't have a video channel like Tankspot holding your hand through every raid boss, and you didn't have a wiki telling you exactly how to complete every quest and find every rare piece of gear. Games aren't becoming easier, players are just putting in a heck of a lot more effort into strategic planning and collaborating with others to maximize their combat potential.

Not true. Allakhazam was a pretty huge EQ database back in the day. People just didn't rely completely on it because we actually enjoyed figuring things out for ourselves. We didn't want to rush to endgame in those days. We enjoyed the ride there.

@adam_nox

What you call "refined" we call "hand-holding". Stupidity didn't last long in those days. You either learned from your mistakes, or you were weeded out. These days games are made so that the stupid, the lazy, and the incompetent have almost as much of a chance as the advanced.

IQ of 50? Wow, I think I'm gonna sign my dog up for a World of Warcraft account now in that case. 

Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by Vryheid

 

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Originally posted by adam_nox
one of the bigger myths rears it's ugly head again.  old mmo's weren't harder.  They were less intuitive, less refined, and generally poorly made, which may have indirectly made them more difficult to play, but you'd only value this if you want to reward stupidity, not eliminate it.

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Pretty much spot on. People love being nostalgic about old games and how "hard" they were when in reality the limited experience these early MMO gamers would have had and lack of online guides were the main causes of this perception of difficulty. In the old days you didn't have a video channel like Tankspot holding your hand through every raid boss, and you didn't have a wiki telling you exactly how to complete every quest and find every rare piece of gear. Games aren't becoming easier, players are just putting in a heck of a lot more effort into strategic planning and collaborating with others to maximize their combat potential.

again not true every MMORPG game out there had tons fo fan built sites with guides and item locations everything you could imagine to do with the game.. i think EQ literally had thousands of sites doing bascially the sames things.

Allakhazam had AC, DOAC, and EQ walkthroughs back in the day.  There was also a statistics site too that is long dead I believe that did the games.

Originally posted by joeyboots

IQ of 50? Wow, I think I'm gonna sign my dog up for a World of Warcraft account now in that case. 

It's reported that cats do better... smaller paws.

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Originally posted by Caldrin

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Originally posted by Vryheid
 

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Originally posted by adam_nox
one of the bigger myths rears it's ugly head again.  old mmo's weren't harder.  They were less intuitive, less refined, and generally poorly made, which may have indirectly made them more difficult to play, but you'd only value this if you want to reward stupidity, not eliminate it.

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Pretty much spot on. People love being nostalgic about old games and how "hard" they were when in reality the limited experience these early MMO gamers would have had and lack of online guides were the main causes of this perception of difficulty. In the old days you didn't have a video channel like Tankspot holding your hand through every raid boss, and you didn't have a wiki telling you exactly how to complete every quest and find every rare piece of gear. Games aren't becoming easier, players are just putting in a heck of a lot more effort into strategic planning and collaborating with others to maximize their combat potential.

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again not true every MMORPG game out there had tons fo fan built sites with guides and item locations everything you could imagine to do with the game.. i think EQ literally had thousands of sites doing bascially the sames things.

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Everquest guides were basically private fan sites rather than collaborative wiki-like experiences, meaning they rarely had complete information and took a heck of a lot mroe effort and time to remain current. Not to mention that this whole process of writing and collecting guides was still in its infancy. These days people data mine games to find complete loot lists before it even gets released.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by joeyboots

IQ of 50? Wow, I think I'm gonna sign my dog up for a World of Warcraft account now in that case. 

It's reported that cats do better... smaller paws.

Hahahaha, Nice!

I forgot to mention that my dog is a miniature Dachshund, So I think he may compare favorably to a cat. :)