buy 2 play  is the number one reason

if any of  the mmo's which came out in the last 3 years  was buy to play  then  it to  would have been the number one game

it makes the developers work for more  money  

Not at all

I could post 1000 links explaining why but the fact is I have not played it so I can't tell you how different it feels from gw 1.

In gw1 you had an autofacing autoattack - tab then space XD. That would automatically run you into range of a mob to do whatever action you chose. Spells would also autorun you into range of target mobs.

In gw2 I am lead to believe I will not have an autoattack that automatically gets me into range so I would have to move into range (akin to wow/eq) before activating skill. However I can activate skills at any given time so I won't get some error telling me i'm out of range. The projectile will fire but it may say 'out of range' in combat text.

Oh yeah and there's dodge.

That's about all I can tell from the videos. As for questing and all that stuff I don't really know. I can tell you that GWEN dungeons (not missions) on hard mode is some of the hardest content I've ever done. Slavers Exile - Dungeon - Killed me many times. It's like 5 dungeons in one.

Realm of Torment - Post end game zone - Each zone has global negative effects. Real nasty ones like take damage if you perform an action or perma health degen or skill activations cost 40% more energy. It is called the Realm of Torment for a reason.

That's about all I can say about the difficulty of zones and dungeons...how did I get here?

Look I really can't tell you because I haven't played GW2.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Already it feels too much like a heavily modified EQ with a touch of DAoC, but with much more functionality.

And that's bad??  What exactly are you after in an MMO?

(I'd say it has more than just a touch of DaoC tho..)

No, GW2= NOTHING CLOSE to GW1, just the story, BUT A WHOLE NEW GAME.... just following a story

Well OP, if you feel that way from watching the videos, you are free to run back to Azeroth/Norrath/Rubi-Ka, but I would suggest going back to the bridge.

Maybe instead of just watching videos, Maybe just maybe, you could first read about the game to see how its different THEN watch videos to see if the videos correlate to the information they released?

It's Gw1 with dodging and an open world. All the same ideals that went into the creation of GW1 are brought here but the execution is different.

I would go for plain old innovative, not extremely, not somewhat, not even similar to anything else, just innovative. Nothing more.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Please, correct me if i'm wrong.

I would be happy to. 

I've seen the footage: Sure, it touts a lot of features that we've seen in Rift, Warhammer etc., but .. is that it?

You're right, it touts a lot of features we have seen in Rift, Warhammer, etc. Bags, inventory, avatars that move around, a mouse cursor... Wait, are you talking about dynamic events? Gee, you say it is a feature that has been seen in Rift, Warhammer, etc... So lets start by asking if you are saying that public quests in WAR are the same as Rifts in Rift? Ok, lets say they are(though there are significant differences)... Does that make them the same as dynamic events? Well, lets talk about the differences...

In WAR public quests were scripted events that:

1) Went through 1 or more stages

2) Were the same every time

3) Had a victory or failure condition

4) Once the condition was met, a timer appeared indicating how long until the event begins again.

 

In GW2, dynamic events are scripted events that:

1) Go through 1 or more stages

2) May be the same, or may be different based on player action, environmental variables(i.e. day/night, weather), and other events.

3) Have multiple progression conditions which lead to different outcomes and/or more events.

4) Make changes to the world which are persistent until such time as player actions cause them to change.

5) Scale to the number of players participating

6) Scale the players to the difficulty of the event

7) etc. etc. etc.

Doesn't seem like they are the same to me...

Every time I watch a video it basically reminds me of GW1, which is fine, but .. it doesn't actually inspire awe or any desire to feel what it's like playing it. Already it feels too much like a heavily modified EQ with a touch of DAoC, but with much more functionality.

So you are saying that GW1 is a blend of EQ and DAOC? I would completely disagree... I do agree that there are things there that are reminiscent  of EQ and DAOC, but that is exactly as it should be. Those games had magic which has never been recaptures to this day, and you can't go back to those games and recapture the magic(for most people) because they are so dated. Are they influenced by the original EQ and by DAOC? You bet... They are trying to recapture the things that people are nostalgic for, without all the dross that drags it down today.

I don't know, maybe I'm just getting too old for gaming, but the whole hotkey thing is slowly wearing on my sanity and has long been forsaken by my interest.

 You don't like hotkeys? What other system would you prefer? Do you want the mouse click combo system like DCUO has? Do you want a point-and-click adventure game(a la quest for glory)? Do you want a system like D2 where you selected 2 skills and they are on your left and right buttons? What possible alternative could you have for hotkeys that would account for using multiple skills? I mean, do you think everyone should go out and buy an OCZ Neural Impulse Actuator? Sure, would be cool if that tech were sufficiently good and it went mainstream, but if you don't like hotkeys then most games aren't for you.

Hell, Mortal Kombat on the original console had hotkeys(A, B, etc.)

It feels like Rift all over again: You get to play 5 minutes of it and you feel like you're back in Azeroth/Norrath/Rubi-Ka.

Have you played it? Have you gone to a con and gotten to play the demo? Are you in the beta?

Having spoken to people who have done both, I don't think you have... But you could prove me wrong... Please, tell us how much time you have spent playing it.

My answers are above in red...

TL;DR

OP, It sounds like you are griping for the sake of griping and I don't see the sense in what you are saying.

Originally posted by mrshroom89

"Something entirely innovative"  is really winning this pole? cmon people lets be realistic here sure, its got a couple things you could call innovative for an mmorpg but everything in this game has been done before in an mmorpg or not.

Yeah, it is... I suppose it depends on how you try and define innovative, but at least for me it is innovative because is putting a new spin on things that had potential but didn't live up to them, trying to bring out that potential... As well as introducting new features.

Why is this topic being created again? We've already had a ton of threads about this incredibly pointless issue. All it boils down to is semantics, and whether or not the OP will even bother enough to:

A) Actually read the info available for this game (of which there is a massive amount of it)

B) Actually be open minded enough to listen to other's points of view.

I haven't really seen either yet, and it's already 5? pages deep.

When Arenanet set out to design GW2, they started from scratch, taking lessons from the MMORPGs that had come before, but with out being beholden to them. They didn't reject things just because they had been done in a similar fashion before, if that's what works in their game design. They have also had to make some minor concessions to existing MMO players to aid in the transition to playing GW2.

GW2 is recognizable as a Fantasy MMORPG on the surface, but there is so much innovation going on that it's amazing that it can still offer some measure of familiarity.

As they then set down to make theory into a game, they had a very robust iterative process. They took ideas and if something seemed promising, they actually coded it into the game and tried it. Tweaking things that seemed like they really worked, dumping things that didn't, always careful to make sure everything blended together into a coherent whole that is far greater than the sum of it's parts. They are still iterating, tweaking, polishing and even fairly recently, making major changes to things they thought could be even better.

There are many, many differences in game design between GW2 and the defacto MMORPG design standard. There are even more differences between GW2 and GW1. The premise of the OP is just completely misinformed.

Originally posted by Mors-Subita

Originally posted by mrshroom89

"Something entirely innovative"  is really winning this pole? cmon people lets be realistic here sure, its got a couple things you could call innovative for an mmorpg but everything in this game has been done before in an mmorpg or not.

Yeah, it is... I suppose it depends on how you try and define innovative, but at least for me it is innovative because is putting a new spin on things that had potential but didn't live up to them, trying to bring out that potential... As well as introducting new features.

The thing is, "Innovation" already has a definition, and people making up their own doesn't help when trying to have a discussion about it.

What you describe there as "new spin" is exactly what makes GW2 so interesting. All the design concepts they chose to change the usual MMO model have been attempted in one way or another before, but in isolation, without connecting them to the rest of the game. They were never done so thoroughly, and with such a clear purpose, as in GW2. The accomplishment of Arenanet is putting a lot of different systems together intelligently to form a game that is much more than the sum of its parts, and leave out systems that work against its design. Especially the latter part is important, but is hard to put into a definition of "Innovation".

I really don't see how it's in any way similar to GW1 movement and combat. It's pretty much the exact opposite - instead of entirely 2D movement where you are glued to the ground and fire off largely stationary skills you have very fluid 3D space and on-the-run skills and dodges.

If it's similar to anything than it is the standard WoW mmo but withe extra fluidity in dodging, non-homing missiles and semi-targetless skills.

Is it "revolutionary"? Nope. Is it innovative for a mmo? Definitely. It seems they tried hard to take all the best features from action games and merge them with your standard tab-targetting mmo, attempting to take the best features from both systems. It sounds (and looks) good to me.

GW2 contains a lot of different innovations which, in my mind, combine for a revolutionary MMORPG game experience.

I was going to say that none of them, alone, is revolutionary, but I'm thinking that, in a way, Dynamic Event Chains may be revolutionary for the genre. This is because I'm thinking that many players who experience it in GW2 will not want to ever return to an MMO with static, quest hub based content with linear quest chains. This may be the one big innovation that other games will either have to adapt to, or die.

I think there is an entire checklist of new design features in GW2 that most future MMOs are going to have to check off if they want to sell a title to anyone that played and enjoyed GW2, or has even just been influenced by the feature list. (I'm already having trouble playing other MMORPGs).

If this ends up being the case, there will be no arguing against  the game being revolutionary.

Innovative to an extent.

GW2 isn't breaking the mold but it's reshaping it quite a bit.

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

I really don't see how it's in any way similar to GW1 movement and combat. It's pretty much the exact opposite - instead of entirely 2D movement where you are glued to the ground and fire off largely stationary skills you have very fluid 3D space and on-the-run skills and dodges.

If it's similar to anything than it is the standard WoW mmo but withe extra fluidity in dodging, non-homing missiles and semi-targetless skills.

Is it "revolutionary"? Nope. Is it innovative for a mmo? Definitely. It seems they tried hard to take all the best features from action games and merge them with your standard tab-targetting mmo, attempting to take the best features from both systems. It sounds (and looks) good to me.

Don't forget that you can use almost all skills while moving also. It actually is a large difference from most MMOs.

I certainly hope it's GW+more freedom etc. It seems like quite a few people expect/want it to be something else entirely.  No game names mentioned!

I disagree entirely. Any time I watch a GW2 video, I see something 100% new. Nothing about this is similar to other MMO's that are out.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Please, correct me if i'm wrong.

 

I've seen the footage: Sure, it touts a lot of features that we've seen in Rift, Warhammer etc., but .. is that it?

Every time I watch a video it basically reminds me of GW1, which is fine, but .. it doesn't actually inspire awe or any desire to feel what it's like playing it. Already it feels too much like a heavily modified EQ with a touch of DAoC, but with much more functionality.

I don't know, maybe I'm just getting too old for gaming, but the whole hotkey thing is slowly wearing on my sanity and has long been forsaken by my interest.

 

It feels like Rift all over again: You get to play 5 minutes of it and you feel like you're back in Azeroth/Norrath/Rubi-Ka.

 

 

You are obviously biased against GW2 and if you can not even do one iota of search to know that GW2 is entirely different from GW1 then me thinks you need to stay away and quit trying to be the subtle troll with vague cheap shots at a game you obviously know nothing about.

Maybe you are too old who knows sounds like MMO's arent your cup of tea for sure though.  The hotkey thing is by far the best combat system in the genre that is easy to learn, hard to master and adds a sense of realisim liek no other combat system.  You may want to try Tera sense you obviously like a more un-realistic style of combat.  The hot key tab targetting system is perfect for MMOs and with it you get a game that adds a touch of on demand implentation of you skills and abilties.  I loathe the solo RPG system where you have to click your mouse to swing a sword because it adds a disconect between ability activation and finish, plus it is impossible to add a sense of character progression with skills and abilitys.  Playing a click-to-combat game has always made me feel like I only had 1 ability (the mouse key) isntead of the 12+ that a tab targetting hot bar system usses.  The last thing I want to do is play a game for years and still only have 1 action ability to press (the mouse key) whereas in a hotbar system I have as many abilities and skills as I can place o nthe hotbar and it always gives me a sense of character progression. i.e. Level 1 I have 1 ability and level 80 I have 12+ abilities and I ahve something to look forward to in my character progression.

I also do not believe you played the game for any amount of time let alone the 5 minutes you say, ive played at PAX last year and the game is by far and away the most innovative game to come along since WoW.  Sure it has Dynamic Events like a Rift or WAR but the problem with those 2 games the PQ's and Rift invasions were static, and not the sole surce of character progression, in other words people skipped them because they were counter-productive to getting to the endgame as it was much quicker to do the boring montonous quest grind jsut like weve been playing since 2005.  GW2 attempts to solve that problem by making sure their version of innovative features are the main reasons to play and not jsut an afterthought like those other game.