Originally posted by maskmurda

I await trolls who only read title and post those troll like comments.

Tiny text made me grin.

You have to understand that a dodge mechanic that isn't automated (and not merely something that happens depending on a stat) is new to most RPG gamers. Some of us have played games more action oriented, and we'll know what to expect. It's also a lot of why GW2 is so appealing. But you need only look at the most lucrative MMO currently (WoW) to see what people are used to. It's not dodging.

It's going to take a while for people to realize they don't have to simply stand in the fire, or take that bullet. But they'll get it eventually. I can understand people's upset when they see press videos and feel that they are more deserving of the beta experience, because they wouldn't suck at it. But also keep in mind that they've only had access to the game for a short amount of time.

I'm sure all of us, even the most "actiony" among us, will have to break some bad habits when GW2 rolls around. No one will be there to save you but yourself, it will be a change of pace to have to care about how much damage you're taking and from where, rather than just assume your armor and the dude healing you will keep you going. 

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by Dameonk

Surprised no one has posted the Skilled Warrior PvE video from the press event yet.

For anyone who hasn't seen it.  Gives you a bit of an idea of how combat should look.

Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him.

That ZAM video is so painful to watch. I can't watch more than 10 minutes at a time.

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by Dameonk

Surprised no one has posted the Skilled Warrior PvE video from the press event yet.

For anyone who hasn't seen it.  Gives you a bit of an idea of how combat should look.

Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him.

I pray to the Tyrian gods every day that that does not happen.  It's about time we have a hard MMO game again.

Originally posted by OrsonDiturno

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by Dameonk

Surprised no one has posted the Skilled Warrior PvE video from the press event yet.

For anyone who hasn't seen it.  Gives you a bit of an idea of how combat should look.

Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him.

That ZAM video is so painful to watch. I can't watch more than 10 minutes at a time.

I blame games like Rift, for making players like him.

Its really a multitude of things with the press people. Some did it to add some comedy. Some did it to irritate people. Some just plain suck. Some I'm guessing where just to excited to really care. Others just wanted to film as much content as possible to make the most money regardless of the quality of the content because even if it was teeth grinding bad we all soaked up as many vids as we could.

Once the game goes live people will learn how to dodge or stop playing.

As far as Yogs goes does anyone really take them seriously as gamers? I know I dont and I love thier videos. But I watch them as comedians and dont concider them gamers. Thats where I give TB some credit. He openly admits when he sucks at a game.

Originally posted by xenogias

As far as Yogs goes does anyone really take them seriously as gamers? I know I dont and I love thier videos. But I watch them as comedians and dont concider them gamers. Thats where I give TB some credit. He openly admits when he sucks at a game.

I completely agree with this statement, but I think the thing most viewers have a problem with is the fact the ZAM guy is complaining about the dungeon, saying things like it's inbalanced, instead of just "I suck at this, so bear with me".

I love waching the Yogscast videos too.  I also do not consider them gamers, as I don't think they really consider themselves gamers.  But they also took some flack for a comment they made on Reddit about the dungeon crawl as well.

IT will be different for me, as I play RTS stuff, and MMOs mostly...I don't play a lot of single player RPG with that mechanism.  It won't be a big deal, but different.  I think it will make it more exciting, as I usually play a range character anymore. 

Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.

What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?

Originally posted by KingJiggly

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.

What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?

I'm hearing a lot of elitism, and every time someone brings up a criticism about GW2 it's always because they don't understand Anet's design philosophy or they're just bad players.  According to them, it's never because there may be real issues.  For example:

"I think a lot of players who only play MMOS are oblivious to dodging otherwise it is hard to believe that people who are gamers in general wouldn't pay attention to dodge button."

"Yeah, a lot of the beta players are really terrible. I love the Yogscast coverage because they are entertaining to listen to, but my god, the guy who does the filming refuses to learn how to play! "

"What I realised is that the popular MMORPG's have caused this lack of ability to be aware and learn to adapt within something new. "

"the circles of death have been part of mmorpg's for years yet individuals still don't seem to wrap the idea around their head to MOVE out of it....These people will be weeded out because of dieing so easy all the time in GW2 or they will stick around and torture anyone that joins their groups."

"The problem is that most of those videos are made by people who tried the game for the first time. After years of static holy trinity combat it's not easy to embrace something this different so quickly. However, I must admit I've seen some really terrible players who click skills with mouse, just stand..."

"And I've seen the visual cues in Guild Wars 2. But like with the "GUILD WARS 2 MUST HAVE THE HOLY TRINITIES!" people, you'll get those who're just unfamiliar with this. (This is why I don't know if turning the asura into Exodar-borne gnomes was such a good idea, because I'm unsure whether they'll grab any WoW fans anyway due to how different GW2 is.)"

"Guild Wars 2 doesn't look particularly forgiving to players who just want to stand there and mash spell rotations all day."

"If you play this game like a rigid, holy trinity game: You're going to die. Horribly."

"Guild Wars 2 will require both dodging and role switching. These are two things that most MMO players are completely unaccustomed to."

"I hope these things weed out those individuals who refuse to learn to adapt to mechanics torturing and holding hostage those who join a party with them. "

"Let me sum this up in one word why people think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms."

"Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him. "

"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "

-------

If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.

Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning.  For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

 *SNIP*

"Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him. "

"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "

 -------

If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.

Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning.  For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.

SuperX is back with avengence.

And for your infomation, I myself play Rift. Just failed to complete a Raid a couple hours ago, full of other players that just weren't geared for it... What point was I trying to make again?

Oh yeah, the ZAM guy. I made a joke about Rift because it's so easy to create a macro in that game where you simply can just stand there and press 1 button, exactly what that person was doing. He didn't play the game the way it is intended to be played and then blamed the game, for his poor performance, saying it needs balancing (in other words saying it needs to be idiot proof). So no, I don't blame the community for calling him out on his hurrendous "play by play commentary". And for the record, a Sceptor wielding Elementalist is incredibly mobile, even when channeling.

Try to get your facts straight with me, next time.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by KingJiggly

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.

What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?

I'm hearing a lot of elitism, and every time someone brings up a criticism about GW2 it's always because they don't understand Anet's design philosophy or they're just bad players.  According to them, it's never because there may be real issues.  For example:

 

"I think a lot of players who only play MMOS are oblivious to dodging otherwise it is hard to believe that people who are gamers in general wouldn't pay attention to dodge button."

"Yeah, a lot of the beta players are really terrible. I love the Yogscast coverage because they are entertaining to listen to, but my god, the guy who does the filming refuses to learn how to play! "

"What I realised is that the popular MMORPG's have caused this lack of ability to be aware and learn to adapt within something new. "

"the circles of death have been part of mmorpg's for years yet individuals still don't seem to wrap the idea around their head to MOVE out of it....These people will be weeded out because of dieing so easy all the time in GW2 or they will stick around and torture anyone that joins their groups."

 

"The problem is that most of those videos are made by people who tried the game for the first time. After years of static holy trinity combat it's not easy to embrace something this different so quickly. However, I must admit I've seen some really terrible players who click skills with mouse, just stand..."

"And I've seen the visual cues in Guild Wars 2. But like with the "GUILD WARS 2 MUST HAVE THE HOLY TRINITIES!" people, you'll get those who're just unfamiliar with this. (This is why I don't know if turning the asura into Exodar-borne gnomes was such a good idea, because I'm unsure whether they'll grab any WoW fans anyway due to how different GW2 is.)"

"Guild Wars 2 doesn't look particularly forgiving to players who just want to stand there and mash spell rotations all day."

"If you play this game like a rigid, holy trinity game: You're going to die. Horribly."

"Guild Wars 2 will require both dodging and role switching. These are two things that most MMO players are completely unaccustomed to."

 

"I hope these things weed out those individuals who refuse to learn to adapt to mechanics torturing and holding hostage those who join a party with them. "

"Let me sum this up in one word why people think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms."

 

"Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him. "

"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "

 

-------

If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.

Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning.  For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.

I do agree with you that some fans could tone it down a bit but hyper-sensitivity to a community doesn't make much sense either.   From the video's it appears that those who used the the dodge skill wisely had much better survivability then those that didn't.  I think some people have an opinion about that because it isn't something we see in an MMO all that often.  Stating that opinion doesn't make one an elitist.  Making an opinion about the success of other players based on how well they use the dodge mechanic doesn't make them and elitist.  If one of them made a statement, that "your not good enough for this game", then you would have elitism.  

I only make this point becuase if I must consider the above elitist, then I must consider someone who criticizes Biowares moral decisions as "sketchy at best" to be just as elitist as the above.  After all, both are stating opinions about other peoples work.

BTW, I agree with the "sketchy at best" observation.

Didn't you hear? On the internet 'elitist' is the word used to describe someone who's right/got a point by someone who doesn't want to admit it. It's the closest many touchy posters get to every admitting that the other guys are right :p

That's why PC gamers are 'elitists' for saying console hardware is very weak now.

When a real elitist shows up, and they occasionally do, people who cry 'elitist' at people stating facts, or making observations, suddenly look like a bunch of morons.

I could not dodge this thread...

teeheehee.

Originally posted by NaughtyP

I could not dodge this thread...

teeheehee.

Ba.Dum.Tssshh

Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.

But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.

Originally posted by silvermember

Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.

But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.

To be honest, someone who simply can't adjust to new systems (aka 'learning') can be called stupid really. I think it's a pretty fair definition. If you can't learn at all, then you're essentially stupid. I'm not talking people who can't dodge roll perfectly within their first hour, i'm talking about people who will still be spamming 1 while standing still two weeks down the line.

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by silvermember

Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.

But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.

To be honest, someone who simply can't adjust to new systems (aka 'learning') can be called stupid really. I think it's a pretty fair definition. If you can't learn at all, then you're essentially stupid. I'm not talking people who can't dodge roll perfectly within their first hour, i'm talking about people who will still be spamming 1 while standing still two weeks down the line.

I don't want to call them stupid because some of the time its the game's fault for not properly teaching the players or punishing them for being a bad player. I have played games that it was easy to go throug the whole game without knowing the full mechanics of the game and later having ot find out the hard way at level cap.

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

 *SNIP*

"Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him. "

"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "

 -------

If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.

Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning.  For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.

SuperX is back with avengence.

And for your infomation, I myself play Rift. Just failed to complete a Raid a couple hours ago, full of other players that just weren't geared for it... What point was I trying to make again?

Oh yeah, the ZAM guy. I made a joke about Rift because it's so easy to create a macro in that game where you simply can just stand there and press 1 button, exactly what that person was doing. He didn't play the game the way it is intended to be played and then blamed the game, for his poor performance, saying it needs balancing (in other words saying it needs to be idiot proof). So no, I don't blame the community for calling him out on his hurrendous "play by play commentary". And for the record, a Sceptor wielding Elementalist is incredibly mobile, even when channeling.

 

Try to get your facts straight with me, next time.

Stop with this BS rhetoric of "he didn't play the game the way it is intended."  Do you work for Anet?  If not, how much time have you spent with this game?  Unless you've had hands on experience at some gaming expo, how can you say how the game is intended to be played when all you have to go on is developer hype videos and promotional news articles? 

The game is in very limited closed beta.  Stuff should still need some tuning, so why is it such a problem when you have a guy simply suggest that there is still some work to be done?  Thing is, he didn't even explicitly state anything.  He simply used his immediate situation as an example for the fact that there is still balance work to be done.You and those like you simply cannot take any ounce of criticism from anyone regarding your precious favorite upcoming MMORPG.  When you do, you go into uber defensive mode and start criticizing their intelligence and video game skill, which is exactly what you did.

About Rift, I didn't know that you played Rift nor do I care.  You mocked Rift's style of gameplay and Rift players. There will be plenty of people still playing Rift when GW2 is released because they prefer a certain style of gameplay.  It doesn't make them lesser people or less skilled as gamers.  Whether you like an action-based combat system or a more turn-based stats and ability centric game, you're still relying on skill to be efficient.  It's two different types of skill.

Oh and before I forget, I'm still waiting on you to answer that question from the thread the other day.

Originally posted by silvermember

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by silvermember

Not everybody that plays MMOs are what I would call proper gamers. They only play MMO and so have no real way to adjust to a game's environment that might be different from their previous experience. Or maybe they are just stupid, who knows.

But if someone cannot adjust then that just makes them a bad player.

To be honest, someone who simply can't adjust to new systems (aka 'learning') can be called stupid really. I think it's a pretty fair definition. If you can't learn at all, then you're essentially stupid. I'm not talking people who can't dodge roll perfectly within their first hour, i'm talking about people who will still be spamming 1 while standing still two weeks down the line.

I don't want to call them stupid because some of the time its the game's fault for not properly teaching the players or punishing them for being a bad player. I have played games that it was easy to go throug the whole game without knowing the full mechanics of the game and later having ot find out the hard way at level cap.

Aye, but dodging has it's own bar on screen that's pretty damn obvious :D

I stand by my statement of people still playing 'WoW in GW2' after 2-3 weeks of playtime is pretty 'stupid'. By that point you will have found that you can move while casting (and, indeed, been forced to have done so) and dodging seems to be introduced early on in the storyline missions by having fights which require dodging (the charr, for example, fight in an arena against a siege devourer which the attack does ~500 damage, essentially insta killing you unless you dodge).