We can hope that they learned a valuable lesson from all of this. I can't say for certain that TOR will ever be what everyone hoped it would be but I am pretty sure they won't let such an asset slip away from them so easily. If they listen to the right people and work at it do you think they can polish this unwieldy beast into a trophy animal?

edit - how convenient!

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/

will it be enough? Only the playerbase can tell us.

Originally posted by Magnetia

It sounds like TOR developers worked extremely hard to make a good impression with some big names in the industry and likely came up with tons and tons of cool ideas but then got spat on by someone higher up.

As a customer, telling me 'why' the quality I was looking for is not there, doesn't change my decision to not resub.

What I am interested in solutions -- how might TOR improve to the point that I would resub.

Originally posted by Magnetia

We can hope that they learned a valuable lesson from all of this. I can't say for certain that TOR will ever be what everyone hoped it would be but I am pretty sure they won't let such an asset slip away from them so easily. If they listen to the right people and work at it do you think they can polish this unwieldy beast into a trophy animal?

edit - how convenient!

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/

will it be enough? Only the playerbase can tell us.

Glad to see the comments about acknowleding their mistakes -- besides the usual dismissal of any criticism as 'trolling' or 'immature'.     As a consumer, arrogance is one of the quickest ways a business can ensure that I will not return -- be it a resturant, or a software company.

TOR definately can be made better, without a complete overhaul of the game (or NGE).     Hopefully they will truely listen to the feedback, and act quickly to improve polish what the remaining player base, and those disheartened customers, desire.

Originally posted by Magnetia

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

An interesting read about the development. An indicator of how the publisher feels about the developer.

All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that."

This is not for trolling purposes but compared to videos of Anet and ArchAge developers there is a clear difference in the passion that was put into the game. Anet seems to have a very interactive process between departments. Writers talk to artists, artists talk to programmers, programmers complain and a whole bunch of code is either written or discarded after consideration.

It sounds like TOR developers worked extremely hard to make a good impression with some big names in the industry and likely came up with tons and tons of cool ideas but then got spat on by someone higher up.

(Please do not turn this into gw2 discussion, let us stick with the company philosophy on development ok?)

Seems to me they had clueless managers.

I've been working in the video game industry for some time and too often seen good ideas wasted by stupid producers/leads.

"It was a staggering insight into the development of what will surely be the last big subscription MMO."

-PC Gamer

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!  Oh yes from here on everything's free!

PS

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by Chieftan

"It was a staggering insight into the development of what will surely be the last big subscription MMO."

-PC Gamer

I agree with this, I don't think any company will risk trying something like SWTOR after its mediocre succes. Except maybe Titan, but it remains to be seen if it will be subscription based.

Originally posted by Sweetroll

Also on topic doesn't suprize me at all that is how EA work with how many good companyies they have killed.   You would think they would learn but nope just another MMO and studio down the drain.

 

I'm fairly certain they buy these studios for their rep, use them for a few big sales and once their name is garbage (as bioware's  now is) they buy a new one.

Exactly true! 

Everyone is surprised at the low quality Bioware is putting out these days...but what they don't realize is that there is no Bioware.  Bioware ended when EA took over.  EA bought the name, and is now using it to put out garbage.  They have even renamed other studios they own "Bioware - ".   You will see more low quality Bioware games come out until people realize it for the joke it is. 

Then EA will buy another name with credibility, and start again.  Stand by for "EA -Bethesda Softworks" in a year or two.

Applying the automobile assembly process to artistic projects definitely has its downsides.

Originally posted by Loke666

When a smaller company gets bought up by a corporation these things happens. Bioware are now 4 different studios.

Corps seems to love meetings and micromanage people, you can´t compare that to smaller companies, like Bioware themselves were when they made Baldurs gate.

But Blizzard is not that different either.

I amactually surprised that games aren't worse than they are, I mean TOR is after all not a bad game.  It isn't very innovative or the best MMO ever made but it could have been alot worse.

When Blizz created WoW it was industry changing, like it or not WoW changed the genre, Tor has done nothing of the like. Comparing Bioware to blizz is like apples and oranges to me at least, blizz delivered a 10-12 million sub game, Tor is struggling to get 1 mill despit all their 1.7 mill claims.

That said, I really respect Loke so I am not bashing him just pointing out the differences between Blizz and Bioware.

One produced a winner and the other a steaming pile a bantha poop that could have been so much more if they did not copy the aforementioned game.

I knew Bioware Austin would turn out this way right from the beginning.  But I have worked in a number of situations like this as a professional non-game programmer.

Its quite common in the software industry.  I found it sad that Bioware was heading down this path, but in the end its so very easy to lie to yourself when you think you have a big fish on the line and when you are looked to provide leadership you have to provide assertive positivity.

Sometimes its like driving a car with someone else's foot on the gas pedal.  People say Bioware is driving and its kind of true in that they control the steering wheel.  But trying to take a turn when you have no control of the gas or the brakes is not exactly "driving".

Then people sit back and second guess and say "Why didn't they know better?  I know they knew better ..."

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

 

Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.

Which is still greater than a chared corpse.

OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.

Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

 

Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.

Which is still greater than a chared corpse.

 

OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.

Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.

This is one of the best summations of SWG I've seen in quite some time.

I feel like it was a nice liittle project had it never been the first/main Star Wars mmorpg.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

 

Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.

Which is still greater than a chared corpse.

 

OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.

Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

 

Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.

Which is still greater than a chared corpse.

 

OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.

Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.

SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

 

Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.

Which is still greater than a chared corpse.

 

OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.

Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.

SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.

 

Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.

As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.

HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ,  SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

 

Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.

Which is still greater than a chared corpse.

 

OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.

Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.

SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.

 

Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.

 

As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.

 

HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ,  SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.

Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.

I got my money out of TOR, I am not strict with getting my money out of a game, as I equate it with other forms of entertainment.  So I cannot say they robbed me, or that I didn't get my money worth...

I think as a single player type story it was shallow, due to having to cater to being multiplayer, even though they could of done simple flagging, to make it when you got done with a quest and crushed whatever rebellious faction you did, that they were not neutral to you.  This should of been easy enough, it wouldn't of saved it, but just little things like that would of been nice, and obtainable...Now string together a few of those things, and the story aspect would of atleast seemed to matter more and change things. 

My wife and I played TOR, same class, she chose light side, I chose dark, and their was one extra npc I fought at the end of my story, because I didn't care if I killed him, and she warned him...Not much else with different, it seemed very cosmetic.

I think the over instancing, and rat maze cities/worlds (not all, but most) made for weak mmo aspects, it was very linear, and when I got to end game, their was a ton of bugs and broken quests...Simple little quests that you did a hundred times on other planets, but they didn't work on Ilum (sp?)...We even took our sweet time getting there, often doing every quest on a planet we could find, and bonus series stuff....

Thats why I say I got my money worth, I played for a month or so, but as a MMO, it didn't have much replayability, and I think the mesh of MMO and their single player story style didn't quite work...Crafting stuff, besides stims seemed pretty useless/obsolete in the end game.  I know they supposedly were working on that, so I don't know now if it is any better.

I just expected more, and I wasn't really expecting a lot, so money worth, yes...Me paying a sub and wanting to replay, or play their end game...no.  I have had enough credit/token/badge grinding, I find this version of grinding dull/tired anymore, and I am a person that doesn't mind XP grinding, over quest hubs...

Originally posted by Drakxii

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by RefMinor
Great quote in the comments beneath it

 

"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."

Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".

 

Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.

 

The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.

 

Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.

Which is still greater than a chared corpse.

 

OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.

Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.

SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.

 

Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.

 

As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.

 

HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ,  SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.

Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.

 If they didn't have LA directing things, they could of took the CU/NGE time/money and added content, class/nuff teaking/balancing, and fixed battlefields and added some PvP stuff also.....Game needed that, way more than a rewrite.  Could of added like a battle of Hoth pvp scenario or something cool, better base pvp stuff, or a planet for it (yes, TOR did it, and it sucks, but uhm actually do it right heh)...  Lot they could of done, game needed work, just not a NGE.

Originally posted by Chieftan

"It was a staggering insight into the development of what will surely be the last big subscription MMO."

-PC Gamer

And this gives an alarming insight into just how much of a festering puddle of sh*t professional game reviewing has devolved into.