Originally posted by kb056

Tbh, you shouldnt be looking at Bioware, should be looking at EA. EA invested $860 into SWTOR, not Bioware.

 

Bioware/Pandemic devs were just the patsies(the Executives made money) in this deal.

I think you mean the $800-Million+ that EA paid for BioWare... as opposed to investing $860 into TOR.

I think that deal was 600-Million+ in cash and the rest was stock or something.   So really you know who you have to look at?  The two co-founders of BioWare... since BioWare was a privately owned company (no share holders) a hostile take over was impossible.

So ya.. the two people who made out were the "doctors" ... the two co-founders that is.   It certainly doesn't do EA any good to spend a ton of money and make a crap product.. and it didn't benefit the employees.  

I mean the initital box revenue from TOR is nice... but EA as a whole has close to a billion dollars to recover from the aquisition of BioWare.   Along with any development costs since they aquired the company.    Wanting so desperately to get their hands on BioWare because they had a license for TOR... was likely not one of EA's smartest moves...

but the co-founders of BioWare certainly made out well in the deal.

Reputation in my eyes is down the drain.

Did you know there is about $800 worth of DLC content for the game? Not just the Something something quest for $10?

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by kb056

Tbh, you shouldnt be looking at Bioware, should be looking at EA. EA invested $860 into SWTOR, not Bioware.

 

Bioware/Pandemic devs were just the patsies(the Executives made money) in this deal.

 

I think you mean the $800-Million+ that EA paid for BioWare... as opposed to investing $860 into TOR.

 

I think that deal was 600-Million+ in cash and the rest was stock or something.   So really you know who you have to look at?  The two co-founders of BioWare... since BioWare was a privately owned company (no share holders) a hostile take over was impossible.

 

So ya.. the two people who made out were the "doctors" ... the two co-founders that is.   It certainly doesn't do EA any good to spend a ton of money and make a crap product.. and it didn't benefit the employees.  

 

I mean the initital box revenue from TOR is nice... but EA as a whole has close to a billion dollars to recover from the aquisition of BioWare.   Along with any development costs since they aquired the company.    Wanting so desperately to get their hands on BioWare because they had a license for TOR... was likely not one of EA's smartest moves...

 

but the co-founders of BioWare certainly made out well in the deal.

Look at it this way... EA buys up all the competition. Then who cares if their games suck?  EA just passes the blame ot the aquired company.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by kb056

 

...

 

but the co-founders of BioWare certainly made out well in the deal.

Look at it this way... EA buys up all the competition. Then who cares if their games suck?  EA just passes the blame ot the aquired company.

 I don't think anyone buys that though ;).

Really guys!  It wasn't us, it was Bioware!  It's not like we rebranded 6 of our crappy studios as "Bioware" and then mysteriously Bioware games started to suck.

as a single player dev ... .rocks

as an MMO dev .................sucks

I thought Bioware started going downhill during the later stages of DA:O's development.  To me there was a noticeable shift from "Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  Here's what we're thinking..." to "Trust us, you don't want that.  Our way makes for a better game.  If you don't stop complaining we're going to shut you up."  Woo and Gaider were particularly guilty of this IMO, and they were part of the "old guard" at Bioware, so to me it wasn't just an EA thing.  Thankfully DA:O was far enough along that it retained some of the "old Bioware" in it, but to me subsequent efforts have been marred by the shift in attitude.

With respect to TOR specifically, I think the things that Bioware has typically been regarded as good at were done fairly well in the game, and all the rest was sort of the bare minimum of what would be needed to be a functional MMO.  That's not something that suprised me.  It's the overwhelming feeling that they don't want me around ruining their game because I'd like to see features that I found fun in other MMOs added to TOR ... because, you know, they know better than me what I want in my games.

Originally posted by superniceguy

No change for me. Everything other than SWTOR has been great, which I put down to LA

Will have to see after ME3, but is not getting off to a great start as EA have pulled all Mass Effect 3 games from the GAME group. The GAME group were the only ones stocking the Collectors edition in the UK, and now have switched retailers in 1 day, resulting in people thinking they had their copies secured, and now lost, like myself, as all retailers became out of stock within 6 hours.

All happened in one day

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/4162568/Game-group-in-crisis-as-supplier-pulls-plug.html

Doing this at this stage, being close to release, is just stupid.

I hope Bioware can go solo again and extract themselves from EA. I am definately not buying any more EA games after this. This is the final straw

EAs business ethics show they do not care for their customers.

Cmon you gotta be fair......a number of publishers have pulled their stuff from Game. The company is flat out on hard times, and you have to be able to pay for your inventory.

I realize it sucks for the gamers, but this is on Game(been reading about it on Joystiq.com)

My interest in Bioware as a great game making company started with KOTOR and vastly improved with Mass Effect 1.  When I tried Dragon Age 1 I found the story telling bland and down right boring at times.  Mass Effect 2 butchered the Mass Effect series in my opinion.  You spent way too much time hunting down uninteresting companions only to find out later they wouldn't be in the 3rd one.  Horrible!  The 3rd Mass Effect, I don't even need to say anything other than EA (AKA SOE 2.0).

I was really sceptical of the idea of TOR when I first heard it was being developed; but, the more I read about it, the more interested I became; up until I was invited into beat for several months.  Actually I lost interest in the game after 2 months of playing in Beta.  I saw the way the developers were handling the massive amount of problems with the game and it raised a huge number of red flags for me.  After being a part of the MMO community for well over a decade, you know what traits to look for in a game that will succeed and Bioware was not giving me any confidence at all, especially when they got busted lying numerous times to the community.  This company has grown to be just another shady hand of an already corrupt business that's grown too big for it's own good.

I probably won't be buying anymore Bioware/EA products anymore.  I began my boycott of SOE long ago; so, I know I have the dicipline to not cave in and buy cheap entertainment.  I'd rather waste my money on gardening supplies or women.

Originally posted by defector1968

as a single player dev ... .rocks

as an MMO dev .................sucks

I dont know if I would say they suck at MMOs, but they arent rocket scientists either when it comes to them. Had they grabbed some extra depth from EQ in how to make worlds seem alive, then a ton of the complaints wouldnt of been there. Thinking they could make a great PVE game, and balance it with PVP is just self defeating IMO. Cater to one or the other, cause you will never keep both groups content.

I wish they had stayed in the single player arena. MP on ME3 is a direct influence of EA IMO, and not something I purchase BW games for.

That said, I still play TOR here n there.....as a single player game, which is all I am interested in playing these days.

ME3 flat out was a blast to play thru. About half way thru my second play thru currently. I read it takes about 15 play thrus of MP to max out readiness which is something I will have to do eventually. Think I have 45 of 52 acheivements currently. I would imagine the Insanity play thru will be the toughest of the 3 games.

Overall I still like Bioware, and they are still my favorite game producer. That said, if for some reason the folks all quit, and started a new company free of EA, I sure wouldnt be complaining.

Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

My interest in Bioware as a great game making company started with KOTOR and vastly improved with Mass Effect 1.  When I tried Dragon Age 1 I found the story telling bland and down right boring at times.  Mass Effect 2 butchered the Mass Effect series in my opinion.  You spent way too much time hunting down uninteresting companions only to find out later they wouldn't be in the 3rd one.  Horrible!  The 3rd Mass Effect, I don't even need to say anything other than EA (AKA SOE 2.0).

I was really sceptical of the idea of TOR when I first heard it was being developed; but, the more I read about it, the more interested I became; up until I was invited into beat for several months.  Actually I lost interest in the game after 2 months of playing in Beta.  I saw the way the developers were handling the massive amount of problems with the game and it raised a huge number of red flags for me.  After being a part of the MMO community for well over a decade, you know what traits to look for in a game that will succeed and Bioware was not giving me any confidence at all, especially when they got busted lying numerous times to the community.  This company has grown to be just another shady hand of an already corrupt business that's grown too big for it's own good.

I probably won't be buying anymore Bioware/EA products anymore.  I began my boycott of SOE long ago; so, I know I have the dicipline to not cave in and buy cheap entertainment.  I'd rather waste my money on gardening supplies or women.

SO you are growing some Gonza weed to share with your mini Hareem?

I suggest you add this idea on the main boards. I still enjoy gaming these days, but damn if I didnt, I would be asking you for pointers.

You should see it now after ME3...   There are a LOT of ticked off fans...

There is no Bioware anymore, but only EA.  SWTOR does nothing to change this.

After DA2, SWTOR, and ME3. Bioware has lowered their product each step of the way. They were my favorite company, now you wont ever see me buy another game from them again.

I vote "No, not really"
My view of BioWare hasn't been that great for years. Not since BG2.

Originally posted by synn

same as always. everyone messes up so i don't see why so many haters!!! then again we'll see the same thing happen when GW2 and Tera is released. Haters will hate, fanboys will defend and I'll enjoy watching both sides go at it :p

Hmmm....    NWN  OC was lame.   NWN :SoU was lame.    Jade Empire was good, but short.   ME1 wasn't good as a wall-shooter, crappy in mechanics but at least had some role-play.   ME2 was 'resource gathering in space, plus Space Junior High School Counselor, plus a big bang at the end which was the only thing that saved it as far as I'm concerned.     KOTOR was okay, lame romances and too much area-running-padding was a negative that destroyed what would have been an "A" title.    Same with DA:O.

So, since BG & BGII, I've only truly liked ONE of their games -- NWN:HotU -- to play through multiple times for the sake of enjoyment.   With another five being ok, but flawed for certain tedious features that have become more-and-more prevalent over time.   And were, as games, ultimately over-rated because of the bandwagon effect BioWare games enjoy.

Then comes:  DA2, SWTOR and now there's a huge back-lash on ME3.   Even many people I thought were lifer-BioDrones have dropped their stripes and are now disconsolate due to 'BioWare's fall.'

See, this is the OTHER SIDE of the bandwagon effect.    You can cruise on your reputation for a long time.   Just keep mailing it in with gimmicks and shallow plots, but lots of 'special effects' and hype....     Sure, you'll get by for quite some time.  But every time you do, you lose some of your audience.  

Do it enough times in a row and the trickle becomes an avalanche.   And you reap the storm of contempt that you sow when you substitute BS for quality game play.

Originally posted by ArgoZex77

After DA2, SWTOR, and ME3. Bioware has lowered their product each step of the way. They were my favorite company, now you wont ever see me buy another game from them again.

Bargain bin.    I've been buying their games bargain bin.     I got ME1 for $3 on Amazon digital super-sale a few weeks ago.   Another $15 for ME2 six months ago. 

(Yes, I played them out of order, I saw my daughter play ME1 and she was pretty much revolted and didn't finish it.   If a friend hadn't talked her into ME2, neither of us would have touched the franchise.)

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by ArgoZex77

After DA2, SWTOR, and ME3. Bioware has lowered their product each step of the way. They were my favorite company, now you wont ever see me buy another game from them again.

 

Bargain bin.    I've been buying their games bargain bin.     I got ME1 for $3 on Amazon digital super-sale a few weeks ago.   Another $15 for ME2 six months ago. 

 

(Yes, I played them out of order, I saw my daughter play ME1 and she was pretty much revolted and didn't finish it.   If a friend hadn't talked her into ME2, neither of us would have touched the franchise.)

So you bitch about BW products, and yet you are still spending money on them.

The price paid is irrelevent.....the fact you keep going back says everything. If I dont like a title, I sure as hell wont spend my time running them down. Worse, I wont keep supporting their products.

Simply shaking my head at you.

At this point I'm done with them.  Sorry to say that IMO KOTOR was their only good game!

Basicaly, they fit into the EA mold very well; like the Madden franchise, what have they upgraded in 10 years?

My first experience with Bioware was KOTOR. I also played Dragon Age 1 & 2, and Mass Effect. I thought DA 1 and ME1 were some decent games, but DA2 was when my opinion of Bioware changed for the worse. I chalked it up to a one time creation of a bad game, but ME2 was dumbed down, albeit still fun.

With SWTOR, I don't think the Bioware we knew when KOTOR released is still around. It seems they're more interested in maximizing profits than creating unique and great games. Making a fully voiced MMORPG with light/dark/neutral alignment choices is cutting edge, which is no different than what they did with KOTOR, but with KOTOR I didn't feel like I was getting milked for money. Same can be said with the downloadable content for their other games. I remember when you paid for a game and you got the full game (ie. everything developed for that game) with the box. Now the games are much shorter, has less depth, and you have downloadable content available on day 1, which means it could have been included in the box.

I haven't beat ME2 yet, and I'm not sure I ever will, which means ME3 will likely never be played by me. I'll also probably not ever buy a Bioware product again. I'm just sick of more of the same from game developers. I want developers to push the boundaries of the genre's they make games for. Add new features to their new games, not take features away. Add more content with new games, not less and then let you buy additional content.

What's funny is that I just started playing LoL a couple weeks ago and I've had more fun playing that game on a daily basis than I have any other game in a long time. Weird, especially when you play through the same 3 maps all the time.

There is no bioware anymore.  Sad fact of life, but true nonetheless.  Its now Electronic Arts.  For better or in this case, for worse, EA calls the shots.  It was evident in the pre-christmas release of a game that easily could have used another 6 months of polish.

Its evident in the push for DLC in their single player games now.  Quarterly reporting is now the driver of everything that happends.

Kind Regards