Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon

Global AH would be tolerable if there was no RMT. However, if RMT companies manage to farm enough gold in ArcheAge, all someone has to do is start putting items up on the AH at stupid prices and others will follow.  you will always get someone who will buy it which means the economy is forever screwed, then people start saying ' ah why doesn't XLGames fix this ' blah blah.

So yeah, don't bother taking the risk. It would be nice to go from town to town to find the best prices, different and rare items.

This.

 

The days of looking through shops for gear and trinkets seem to be over and its a damn shame. Finding great deals from player vendors was a great feeling. Talking with vendors that farmed for mats to make future deals with. The AH is just something else that kills the community.

 

Im so sick of playing games that dont focus of community building. If there has to be an AH make those who post items up there pay a higher tax for the convenience. im talking 20% - 25%. Something to deter people from useing it. people would still use it for convenience but would promote players to set up shops to avoid the added cost.

There are many more features that have a much bigger negative impact on a community than an AH.  (btw I am 100% against a global AH, I think they need to be limited to major faction cities, selling stuff to enemy factions doesnt make a lot of sense.)

FFXI had AH's and IMO one of the strongest communities of any MMO to date. So IMO your being to harsh on the effects of an AH in regaurds to the community.  There are many more ways to embrace community building, than by removing a core MMORPG feature.

As for the RMT issue. Ya sure RMT will benifit from an AH, no denying it, becasue I saw it in XI. But RMT will always find a way, its just the nature of MMO's. even without AH's people know the going rate of items, youll see RMT shouts selling the rare item, and with that will set the standard for selling that item, and non RMT people will sell for roughly the same price.

Another aspect that i saw from lack of an AH in XIV is: this is the age of the internet, 3rd party sites will start poping up, essentially functioning as an AH, like it did with FFXIVpro.com. I dont want to spend hours upon hours hunting 1 item, and I hate the fact that if I dont want to do that I have to go to a 3rd party site looking for someone selling the item I need. I realize that a choice on my part but many players take the path of least resistance, wheather they like to or not. Im not going to handicap myself.

 

FFXI's AH's were region based, 4 diffrent auction houses (at least when I played) Sandy, Windy, bastok and jeuno. So while they did have AH's they were region based.

And in Jeuno they had a pretty good sized tax. So I remember just outside of Jeuno they had hundreds of vendors just camped there selling stuff. It was pretty awesome.

... Mollenberry fields if I remember correctly? (its been aaallooonnnggg time since I played)

Ahh I miss that game. :(  many awesome memories.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by kantseeme

If there has to be an AH make those who post items up there pay a higher tax for the convenience. im talking 20% - 25%. Something to deter people from useing it. people would still use it for convenience but would promote players to set up shops to avoid the added cost.

There are many more features that have a much bigger negative impact on a community than an AH.  (btw I am 100% against a global AH, I think they need to be limited to major faction cities, selling stuff to enemy factions doesnt make a lot of sense.)

FFXI had AH's and IMO one of the strongest communities of any MMO to date. So IMO your being to harsh on the effects of an AH in regaurds to the community.  There are many more ways to embrace community building, than by removing a core MMORPG feature.

As for the RMT issue. Ya sure RMT will benifit from an AH, no denying it, becasue I saw it in XI. But RMT will always find a way, its just the nature of MMO's. even without AH's people know the going rate of items, youll see RMT shouts selling the rare item, and with that will set the standard for selling that item, and non RMT people will sell for roughly the same price.

Another aspect that i saw from lack of an AH in XIV is: this is the age of the internet, 3rd party sites will start poping up, essentially functioning as an AH, like it did with FFXIVpro.com. I dont want to spend hours upon hours hunting 1 item, and I hate the fact that if I dont want to do that I have to go to a 3rd party site looking for someone selling the item I need. I realize that a choice on my part but many players take the path of least resistance, wheather they like to or not. Im not going to handicap myself.

 

Why does the AH have to be a core MMORPG feature? IMO its a lazy mans tool to find and aquire items. My comment in red does state that IF there has to be an AH players that use it should be charged a heafty tax to use such a convenience. My feeling on the matter will never change. Iv hated the AH since iv fist saw it pop up in WOW ( Ragnarok was my first MMO)

Enjoy your cruise, Testers! (if it indeed happens, of course).

P.S. People might be surprised to learn that FFXI's AH is now global (no taxes for bazaaring within Jeuno, either... not sure about Whitegate, but probably the same as Jeuno). The change made the mules I had in each city pointless. Also took away the fun of finding a niche where people didn't sell items and making bank by being the only seller (e.g., selling "insect paste" in Bastok ftw).

Also, I'm a bit surprised that people didn't mention something that was discussed over on ArcheageSource.com ... namely, there have been games in the past where players could write up a short "ad" that would display over the heads of their toon/npc vendor. Shoppers could use a search feature to look for specific items and any sellers with that item in their inventory would be set apart from the others by the ad over their head changing color. An arrow/waypoint could even lead you to the various shops that had your item. This all could have been a suggestion, not an IG system, but I'm pretty sure people were talking about it like it was in previous games (combination of SWG and one of the Lineage games, I think...). Of course, there are "EvE" like systems too where you can buy any item from regional AH's, but you have to pick them up wherever they are:

• I like how FFXIV's retainer system is coming along. they have different wards for item types and a data base that you can search for an item and get a list of retainers that have that item and where they are located. I think a system like that would work well in Archeage and wouldnt keep the prices of stuff on a decline like most AH's do. ~Xalic

• If I remember, the search function would just highlight which Retainers (NPC salesperson) which had the item you were seeking. You still needed to go and check the prices and quantitie. Another example would also be EVE. They have a auction type system, but the markets are divided by regions and products still need to be picked up from where they are being sold. Something could be translated into AA where locations would be Shops and regions would be territories. ~Jojin

• In the current version, they have the location, quantity, price, and product description all on the database. Back awhile ago, SWG didn't use to have the price, quantity, and product description. Although I could be wrong on that. ~Borawan Denali

• Im fine with highlighting shops. But the search should not be based on the stuff inside the shop but on the advertisement text the players write themselves. This would add more variety and creativity to the market which would otherwise look pretty boring. ~Cavarath

• I really like that idea Cavarath, only problem I see with it is the fact that one would have to scroll through endless pages of advertisement. Which would basically be like searching through private shop except your standing still and reading text, in which case I would prefer forcing players to go shop searching because to some extent it will force player interaction. ~Borawan Denali

• You havent understood i think. This has been used in L2. There were private shops where the players could put in a few words of advertisement which has afterwards been shown above their head. The players had a action to search those advertisements to special phrases. And the advertisements that consisted the phrases has been highlighted and the player had to/could travel through the city checking the prices and the actual stuff within the shop. ... You press on the button like on a skill, type in your keyword, and press ok. Afterwards are all shops (the advertisements are above the heads of the characters) colored differently (Green instead of violet, orange or yellow). ~Cavarath

• As for auction house it shouldn't be global, more like separate database for each continent/faction. Maybe doing a waypoint to seller system, when you want to put something for sale you place it on your NPC vendor, and it adds automaticly to the auction database with the price and the waypoint to the vendor, you shouldnt be able to buy it by clicking on buyout button and go to mail and collect it, instead you should go to the the vendor and buy it from there. So that the auction house to be just a "read only" thing to browse the gods, this is to speed up the trading process a bit, and not being needed to search 100++ personal shops 1by1, and spamming chat for hours. ~LleXx

Anyway, the point remains that global AH *DOES* contribute to RMT and detracts from player interaction. Having some kind of search feature that cuts down on the browsing required to find relevant items would solve most of the problems people are raising as far as spending forever to find what you need from player run bazaars.

I hope they change things and, at the very least, make AH's regional. As others have pointed out, it makes ZERO sense to have an AH where the "enemy" factions can buy goods from each other.

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

Enjoy your cruise, Testers! (if it indeed happens, of course).

 

P.S. People might be surprised to learn that FFXI's AH is now global (no taxes for bazaaring within Jeuno, either... not sure about Whitegate, but probably the same as Jeuno). The change made the mules I had in each city pointless. Also took away the fun of finding a niche where people didn't sell items and making bank by being the only seller (e.g., selling "insect paste" in Bastok ftw).

 

Also, I'm a bit surprised that people didn't mention something that was discussed over on ArcheageSource.com ... namely, there have been games in the past where players could write up a short "ad" that would display over the heads of their toon/npc vendor. Shoppers could use a search feature to look for specific items and any sellers with that item in their inventory would be set apart from the others by the ad over their head changing color. An arrow/waypoint could even lead you to the various shops that had your item. This all could have been a suggestion, not an IG system, but I'm pretty sure people were talking about it like it was in previous games (combination of SWG and one of the Lineage games, I think...). Of course, there are "EvE" like systems too where you can buy any item from regional AH's, but you have to pick them up wherever they are:

• I like how FFXIV's retainer system is coming along. they have different wards for item types and a data base that you can search for an item and get a list of retainers that have that item and where they are located. I think a system like that would work well in Archeage and wouldnt keep the prices of stuff on a decline like most AH's do. ~Xalic

• If I remember, the search function would just highlight which Retainers (NPC salesperson) which had the item you were seeking. You still needed to go and check the prices and quantitie. Another example would also be EVE. They have a auction type system, but the markets are divided by regions and products still need to be picked up from where they are being sold. Something could be translated into AA where locations would be Shops and regions would be territories. ~Jojin

• In the current version, they have the location, quantity, price, and product description all on the database. Back awhile ago, SWG didn't use to have the price, quantity, and product description. Although I could be wrong on that. ~Borawan Denali

• Im fine with highlighting shops. But the search should not be based on the stuff inside the shop but on the advertisement text the players write themselves. This would add more variety and creativity to the market which would otherwise look pretty boring. ~Cavarath

• I really like that idea Cavarath, only problem I see with it is the fact that one would have to scroll through endless pages of advertisement. Which would basically be like searching through private shop except your standing still and reading text, in which case I would prefer forcing players to go shop searching because to some extent it will force player interaction. ~Borawan Denali

• You havent understood i think. This has been used in L2. There were private shops where the players could put in a few words of advertisement which has afterwards been shown above their head. The players had a action to search those advertisements to special phrases. And the advertisements that consisted the phrases has been highlighted and the player had to/could travel through the city checking the prices and the actual stuff within the shop. ... You press on the button like on a skill, type in your keyword, and press ok. Afterwards are all shops (the advertisements are above the heads of the characters) colored differently (Green instead of violet, orange or yellow). ~Cavarath

• As for auction house it shouldn't be global, more like separate database for each continent/faction. Maybe doing a waypoint to seller system, when you want to put something for sale you place it on your NPC vendor, and it adds automaticly to the auction database with the price and the waypoint to the vendor, you shouldnt be able to buy it by clicking on buyout button and go to mail and collect it, instead you should go to the the vendor and buy it from there. So that the auction house to be just a "read only" thing to browse the gods, this is to speed up the trading process a bit, and not being needed to search 100++ personal shops 1by1, and spamming chat for hours. ~LleXx

Anyway, the point remains that global AH *DOES* contribute to RMT and detracts from player interaction. Having some kind of search feature that cuts down on the browsing required to find relevant items would solve most of the problems people are raising as far as spending forever to find what you need from player run bazaars.

 

I hope they change things and, at the very least, make AH's regional. As others have pointed out, it makes ZERO sense to have an AH where the "enemy" factions can buy goods from each other.

damn i didnt know XI's AH went global. I guess thats probably due to fall in population.

XIV's retainer system is a few steps back of what an AH is. All it does is just make you go and hunt down the retainer that has a star over its head, from which you based your search on.  In the early days it was absolutly brutal, no search, you could waste hours looking for 1 item. Thats not how i prefer to spend my time. It was faster looking up online what dropped an item and go farm it yourself. And as a crafter you needed so many items for just 1 synthethis.

Again I agree theres no place in any game for a global AH. Especially in a PvP faction game. Regional AH's are just fine IMO.

Yah because player stores worked in Aion lol.  Sorry, but AH are here to stay in the MMO genre forever they work and are 100% needed in every MMORPG.

This coming from someone who very well remembers the good ole days in EQ in EC or Gfay depending on the server these zones were always the unoffical trade spam zones.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon

Global AH would be tolerable if there was no RMT. However, if RMT companies manage to farm enough gold in ArcheAge, all someone has to do is start putting items up on the AH at stupid prices and others will follow.  you will always get someone who will buy it which means the economy is forever screwed, then people start saying ' ah why doesn't XLGames fix this ' blah blah.

So yeah, don't bother taking the risk. It would be nice to go from town to town to find the best prices, different and rare items.

This.

 

The days of looking through shops for gear and trinkets seem to be over and its a damn shame. Finding great deals from player vendors was a great feeling. Talking with vendors that farmed for mats to make future deals with. The AH is just something else that kills the community.

 

Im so sick of playing games that dont focus of community building. If there has to be an AH make those who post items up there pay a higher tax for the convenience. im talking 20% - 25%. Something to deter people from useing it. people would still use it for convenience but would promote players to set up shops to avoid the added cost.

Go play Conquer Online. It has player shops and you can hunt around for your items by checking each players shop.

Originally posted by William12

Yah because player stores worked in Aion lol.  Sorry, but AH are here to stay in the MMO genre forever they work and are 100% needed in every MMORPG.

 

This coming from someone who very well remembers the good ole days in EQ in EC or Gfay depending on the server these zones were always the unoffical trade spam zones.

Yeah because AH worked so well in Aion.. oh wait it didn't and it was a perfect example of how easily markets get inflated by rmt gold, stones would jump prices over night as it was so easy to buy everything and reprice it all instantly.

Originally posted by William12

Yah because player stores worked in Aion lol.  Sorry, but AH are here to stay in the MMO genre forever they work and are 100% needed in every MMORPG.

 

This coming from someone who very well remembers the good ole days in EQ in EC or Gfay depending on the server these zones were always the unoffical trade spam zones.

Sorry but the AH subtracts players from the environment thus reducing the population. The AH IMO is not a good thing. IF it is added there should be stiff taxes for its conveinence. Lazy people use the AH incessantly for there gear and item needs. You cant refute this. The AH is a easy tool to find things that should be harder to find.

Originally posted by Flex1

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon

Global AH would be tolerable if there was no RMT. However, if RMT companies manage to farm enough gold in ArcheAge, all someone has to do is start putting items up on the AH at stupid prices and others will follow.  you will always get someone who will buy it which means the economy is forever screwed, then people start saying ' ah why doesn't XLGames fix this ' blah blah.

So yeah, don't bother taking the risk. It would be nice to go from town to town to find the best prices, different and rare items.

This.

 

The days of looking through shops for gear and trinkets seem to be over and its a damn shame. Finding great deals from player vendors was a great feeling. Talking with vendors that farmed for mats to make future deals with. The AH is just something else that kills the community.

 

Im so sick of playing games that dont focus of community building. If there has to be an AH make those who post items up there pay a higher tax for the convenience. im talking 20% - 25%. Something to deter people from useing it. people would still use it for convenience but would promote players to set up shops to avoid the added cost.

Go play Conquer Online. It has player shops and you can hunt around for your items by checking each players shop.

You go play Conquer online. if i wanted to play it id be playing it. Nothing like telling someone to go play a game for a feature. i want to play AA not Conquer. thats like telling someone that want a game co to make a up to date sandbox to go play UO or EVE. If you dont have anything to add to the conversation but this then just dont even bother posting.

Edit:

After rereading my reply i see it was rather rude. Sorry bout that. Just getting tired of being told to go play X because it was a feature that i want. it makes me feel as if your telling me "well AA isent goin to have this so go F yourself. Go play X if you want that shit" So if that wasent you intent then my bad for the rude comment. But if that was your intention then eat shit =)

Originally posted by PsychoPigeon

Originally posted by William12

Yah because player stores worked in Aion lol.  Sorry, but AH are here to stay in the MMO genre forever they work and are 100% needed in every MMORPG.

 

This coming from someone who very well remembers the good ole days in EQ in EC or Gfay depending on the server these zones were always the unoffical trade spam zones.

Yeah because AH worked so well in Aion.. oh wait it didn't and it was a perfect example of how easily markets get inflated by rmt gold, stones would jump prices over night as it was so easy to buy everything and reprice it all instantly.

You cant tell these people anything. all they care about is "porting" not running back to town to surch the AH for something then "porting" not running back out into there little correr of the world to kill x amount of these solo and log out. Thats it. They log in and want to acomplish something that should take 3 days in 30 mins. Its the mind set of todays MMOer. shame really.

If an AH is to be implemented, there should be rules / restrictions to prevent RMT from taking over the economy and driving prices down. Some rules / restrictions that come to my mind that could help would be:

1)  Each item in game has its own minimum & maximum value at which it can be placed on AH. This would prevent RMT from placing items way below there value. It would also allow the developers to have some control over the economy by changing the min / max values of each item that can be placed on the AH if needed.

2) Preventing the same item to be sold over and over again. For example, if I sell the same item about 5-10 times a day then thats ok. But if a person is selling the same item 20+ times a day and continues this for weeks / months, then there could be RMT involved. During my ffxi days, RMT would sell the same item over and over again for weeks, months, and sometimes years.

3) As previously mentioned in this form, No Global AH. Region based AH would be best.  

I do not want an AH to take away from having people setting up there own shops to sell items. To help out in this area, I would like to see this:

1) Make certain items rare/exclusive that can only be sold in a persons shop. You can only have 1 of the same rare/ex items in your inventory at once. 

THe only good system was swg's  a hybrith AH/playershops system.  it keeps the world alive yet provided every player whit all the information and tools they needed to find whatever they needed.

I suspect that the only people who want private vendor shops are Gold Farmers.  This way they maximize their profits, with out direct competition from non-gold farming players.  I played SWG, and traveling from city to city and planet to planet to check individual vendors for items I wanted was time consuming and annoying.  The Vast majority of player run shops are on AFK layers who leave their machines running day and night as a bot.  The idea is it save hardware costs because the load is shared by the player machine.  When ever you off load to the player you risk data being hacked and your game compromised.

RMTs do not place items "Below their true value" on AH.  RMTs drive prices up.  Real players who are disgusted by the Gold Farmers  and RMTs ( GF&RMTs ) drive prices down.

Only GF&RMTs fear Global Auction Houses ( GAH ).  They need the privacy of Regional AHs or Personal Shops ( PSs ) to perform the TOS violations in.

[ self moderated ]

I do beleive there should be more "rules" in place to prevent GF&RMTs , such as.   When you buy something on the AH, you own it for a year before you can ressell it.  You can't delete it, trade it, or mail it.  When you do resell it youare limitied to a 5% mark up.  [ self moderated ]

FYI RMT items are sold at over inflated prices.  [ self moderated ]

I just removed a lot of my post.  My purpose was not to write a guide explaining how to conduct GF&RMTs .  Listen, Devs know that a GAH is a tool to combat GF&RMTs .  They also know that  PSs are tools of GF&RMTs .  If a Dev knows what is good for their income, they don't implement PSs.  I am not saying that a GAH does away with GF&RMTs, but it does discurage GF&RMTs and therefore limit GF&RMTs.  Any game with a sizeable player base will have to deal with GF&RMTs.

1. Limit reselling & trading of in game items.
2. Dev controls the economy, not the GF&RMTs.

Originally posted by Konfess

RMTs do not place items "Below their true value" on AH.  RMTs drive prices up.  Real players who are disgusted by the Gold Farmers  and RMTs ( GF&RMTs ) drive prices down.

Only GF&RMTs fear Global Auction Houses ( GAH ).  They need the privacy of Regional AHs or Personal Shops ( PSs ) to perform the TOS violations in.

[ self moderated ]

I do beleive there should be more "rules" in place to prevent GF&RMTs , such as.   When you buy something on the AH, you own it for a year before you can ressell it.  You can't delete it, trade it, or mail it.  When you do resell it youare limitied to a 5% mark up.  [ self moderated ]

FYI RMT items are sold at over inflated prices.  [ self moderated ]

I just removed a lot of my post.  My purpose was not to write a guide explaining how to conduct GF&RMTs .  Listen, Devs know that a GAH is a tool to combat GF&RMTs .  They also know that  PSs are tools of GF&RMTs .  If a Dev knows what is good for their income, they don't implement PSs.  I am not saying that a GAH does away with GF&RMTs, but it does discurage GF&RMTs and therefore limit GF&RMTs.  Any game with a sizeable player base will have to deal with GF&RMTs.

1. Limit reselling & trading of in game items.
2. Dev controls the economy, not the GF&RMTs.

You cant limit trading, unless they want to give you a 1000 inventory spots. even then it would still severly cripple a community. 

It doesnt take a brain surgeon to figure out who the RMT are. What you do is just track the Trades and/or currency. Once a low level account (rarely in gold farming does the main account sell the items) is flagged for RMT find out which account is supplying it and ban the main account./alt account and ban the credit card. If you start changing the game to combat RMT the only people who are going to suffer is the players.

EDit: Also ban the players buying RMT sevices. If word gets out that if the players buying RMT sevices get banned it will spread like wildfire and would cut down on RMT as well.

Originally posted by Konfess

I suspect that the only people who want private vendor shops are Gold Farmers.  This way they maximize their profits, with out direct competition from non-gold farming players.  I played SWG, and traveling from city to city and planet to planet to check individual vendors for items I wanted was time consuming and annoying.  The Vast majority of player run shops are on AFK layers who leave their machines running day and night as a bot.  The idea is it save hardware costs because the load is shared by the player machine.  When ever you off load to the player you risk data being hacked and your game compromised.

you should know that running from city to city was not needed at all. you would check ALL vendors on every planet at a single GAH station and only then went on youre way to the vendors. 

to say player shops increases Goldfarming is the most idiotic thing ever droped on a forum, if anyting a GAH increases Goldfarming and promotes market plays were goldfarmers controll the entire market by buying and resales and whit the press of a single button  , were Player shops forces increased time spending /cost  per item making it less atractive for said goldfarmers and more dificult to controll the markets.

who cares anyway, games will have goldfarmers , not a single thing can stop them anyway and 99% of the issue are the players themself, goldfarmers are a mere professionalized version of player behavior, if they dont do it,the players will.

Originally posted by Konfess

I suspect that the only people who want private vendor shops are Gold Farmers.  This way they maximize their profits, with out direct competition from non-gold farming players.  I played SWG, and traveling from city to city and planet to planet to check individual vendors for items I wanted was time consuming and annoying.  The Vast majority of player run shops are on AFK layers who leave their machines running day and night as a bot.  The idea is it save hardware costs because the load is shared by the player machine.  When ever you off load to the player you risk data being hacked and your game compromised.

These are the ramblings of someone that donesent know what the hell there talking about. Please explain to the group how only people that want private shops are gold farmers? If anything the contary could be said about people that only want an AH system.

With access to a global AH with sometimes up to 48 -72 hours to sell there wears. That would benefit a gold seller more then a player ran shop. So Please enilghten us as to why you belive player shops + gold farmer.

Edit: I should have kept reading.... But If you think that player shops encorage botting then your out of your mind. only reason i can think of that would draw you to that conculsion is that most games with player shops have a tone of bots. That being said those games are not policed by GMs AND let us not forget. THERE F2Ps!!!!

Originally posted by Konfess I am not saying that a GAH does away with GF&RMTs, but it does discurage GF&RMTs and therefore limit GF&RMTs.  Any game with a sizeable player base will have to deal with GF&RMTs.

This statement is completely untrue. Like i had said in the post above, if anything, a GAH promote RMT even more then player shops. You have a localized place to sell EVERYTHING? Yeah that doesent promote RMT at all. Very easy to post and sell your ill gotten items for days at a time for EVERYONE to see at ANY GIVIN TIME.

At least with player shops to have to LOOK for an item not just type X----- Copper Ore-------X hit search and then every listing of copper ore from everyone on the selver pops up for you to see.

The ability to buy and sell goods is what spark the Gold Farmers and RMT,  As well if the game has either Levels or progressive skills ranking, it will spark paid leveling services.

It is NOT whether there is an AH or Personal Shops, it is solely if the game is popular enough to attract sufficient potential RMT customers, that will bring the Farmers, BOTs and RMT companies. Only if the players themselves are aggressive in reporting bots and farmers, and if the producer is aggressive is squashing, can they be kept to tolerable levels.

WoW is active in shutting them down, but with 10M accounts the farmers always have some new vulnerable account to move to. NCSoft seems to largely not care as even if they are reported, and even if every so often they go bot hunting, the same bots return time and time again, Aion/L2 for instance. Vanguard:SoH, you NEVER see bots and farmers there, not because SoE cares about stopping them, it is only that there isn't a sufficient population to warrant the RMT companies spend any time there.