Originally posted by wmada2k

Jesus, seems here are plenty of ppl that cannot read. IT IS A FIRST DRAFT! So no, there are nothing "special" here, Yes, the guards seems to have 2 attack modes... and one block mode... etc etc...

We all agree that it is in the right way for the AI in MO right? Why not wait until the finished version of the AI is there, and then talk about it? 

This is purely a video showing where the AI is now compared to what it was before!

Sighs, now im off to something more meaningful!

Before you had monsters that attacked, now you have monsters that attack and brainlessly block.

"Wait and see" is a terrible argument. We've seen videos like this before and what is delivered is always underpar or never implemented, so the best approach is to take what they have now as what will most likely be in the game.

It's take 2 months for them to get the guards blocking down, do you seriously think that they can implement the "revolutionary AI" in just one more month (april)?

Hah, what a worthless video.

At first, the folks at Stravault went through great trouble to create and post videos of "content" that wasnt in the game.

Get fooled by cinematics!

And again!

And whatever propaganda vids I have forgotten.

Now the quality of such propaganda has dipped down so badly...its so sad really that they dont have the manpower to even create a decent half assed cutscene.

Just like every other "tidbit" video that has come out about this new free patch, this one is also along the usual "first draft" lines. Makes me wonder if even the hardcore MO fanboys can still believe that SV can move past from the alpha stages to launch phase in barely a month's time (when this Awakening patch is set to be released).

What they showed hardly even qualified as AI, not taking into account if it was a static script that was played out or a shoddy attempt at iterating real time AI conditions. The dev testing this poor joke did not kite, juke, range attack or even run from the NPCs, why not? Since the revolutionary AI will bork up, is my guess. What kinda testing is this? Do the good folks at Starvault think that they can push out any mindless drivel of a "development video" and the hungry fanatics will lap it up like a gift from heavens without questioning its legitimacy? Probably so, as a couple of fanboys have demonstrated in this thread...

Looking forward to this free patch, its already holding onto the promise of bringing tons of entertainment to these forums, free of charge! Barely a month to go and SV are Still working on "first drafts", this could lead to a very fitting (anti)climax!

Dibs on "This is a placeholder system because we are a small indy company with limited resources" line making its way forward again. :)

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 answers to your answers

Not scripted? Lmao

The guard swings his weapon every 3.5 seconds or so, and blocks in between attacks. he isn't even "reactively" blocking, it's just blocking and hope he gets hit when hes blocking.

That's scripted behavior bro.

Um, I dont like defending MO, but scripted behavior is not the same as giving a creature a basic attack speed it follows.. I think you are using the term bit wrong there. A preset attack speed for the sake of balance is not the same as whole combat being scripted. 

Attack speed is a scripted behavior. That's not "intelligence".

If a guard is deciding how fast to attack or when to attack, that is intelligence.

If a guard is swinging at predetermined intervals, that is scripting.

 attack speed isnt scripted its coded. there is no pattern to the way the ai is acting so there is no suggestion that any of its behaviour is scripted. Could it be scripted? its possible. Is it likely? not really. what is the msot likely ai routine? its all random, However each attack is coded obviously but theres a big diference between coding something and scripting something.

 

There is 0 evidence in this video to supprot your argument for it being a scripted set of animations. It appears to be completely random which attack the ai will perform. But right now your making me question why i even bother arguing with you hatebois, except shoe who im in love with :D

"Attack speed isn't scripted it's coded"

Okay, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about so I'll give you a small enlightenment.

1. Scripts ARE code

2. The context of "scripting" for gaming (and even programming) means anything that has predetermined behavior (which includes random). If we handed a script to an actor and he read it, no matter how many times he read the script it would remain unchanged and his speech would remain the same.

3. If a monster attacks at 3.5 second intervals, there is a SCRIPT that's CODED to make him attack in those intervals.

4. The guard is scripted to attack in intervals and scripted to block when not attacking, thus there is no "AI" to be had here.

Why is no one saying something?

Originally posted by RainBringer

Hah, what a worthless video.

 

At first, the folks at Stravault went through great trouble to create and post videos of "content" that wasnt in the game.

Get fooled by cinematics!

And again!

And whatever propaganda vids I have forgotten.

Now the quality of such propaganda has dipped down so badly...its so sad really that they dont have the manpower to even create a decent half assed cutscene.

 

 

Just like every other "tidbit" video that has come out about this new free patch, this one is also along the usual "first draft" lines. Makes me wonder if even the hardcore MO fanboys can still believe that SV can move past from the alpha stages to launch phase in barely a month's time (when this Awakening patch is set to be released).

 

What they showed hardly even qualified as AI, not taking into account if it was a static script that was played out or a shoddy attempt at iterating real time AI conditions. The dev testing this poor joke did not kite, juke, range attack or even run from the NPCs, why not? Since the revolutionary AI will bork up, is my guess. What kinda testing is this? Do the good folks at Starvault think that they can push out any mindless drivel of a "development video" and the hungry fanatics will lap it up like a gift from heavens without questioning its legitimacy? Probably so, as a couple of fanboys have demonstrated in this thread...

 

Looking forward to this free patch, its already holding onto the promise of bringing tons of entertainment to these forums, free of charge! Barely a month to go and SV are Still working on "first drafts", this could lead to a very fitting (anti)climax!

 sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but that first trailer? its an in engine render. you dont know what that means? well its a trailer created using assets with far higher textures and cinematic possible inside a game. This is actually very common practise aqnd something the UE3 is very good at. It can be seen in alot of game traielrs including U3 and NS2. Hopefully you will be able to tell the difference in the future.

Townlife traielr never had any kind of planned release date or even a rumoured one. But it seems to me like townlife will be a part of awakening with the guard ai etc.

There are things shown in videos that arent ingame but these 2 examples are poor examples, personally i would of chosen the dragon from the beta trailer since that is misleading and not some in engine render and a preview of content they had never decided on a release date for.

SHOE- by your logic everything is a script since to you a script and coding are the same thing, scripting is bad in you logic which means coding is bad. So when a palyer swings from his left he always swings with the same left swing animation which means it is coded that way which in shoe loagic means its a scripted event which in turn = bad. Hmm that kinda makes everything in almost every single game bad.

you hit the nail on the head, pre-determined behaviour SHOE. now read that again and then tell me how a random behavioural pattern applied to npc determining which attack/block they will use could possibly be scripted? and see how your logic just failed. Its the compelte opposite of a behavioural pattern, it is simply chaos. If instead the guard did a pattern of stab swing block over and over then yes that would indeed be a scripted behavioural pattern which really isnt a term often used anyway. But thee is nothing in the video to suggest anythihng he is doing has any pattern to it. Hence why you jumping to the conclusion its scripted has about as much merit as me jumping to the conclusion the guard is an actual player controlling it using the guard model.

Originally posted by deathshroud

 sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but that first trailer? its an in engine render. you dont know what that means? well its a trailer created using assets with far higher textures and cinematic possible inside a game. This is actually very common practise aqnd something the UE3 is very good at. It can be seen in alot of game traielrs including U3 and NS2. Hopefully you will be able to tell the difference in the future.

Except of course that SV claimed the video was using "ingame assets and technology". You will notice other game trailers say in big letters "not ingame footage" or similar as a legal requirement.

 

Townlife traielr never had any kind of planned release date or even a rumoured one. But it seems to me like townlife will be a part of awakening with the guard ai etc.

It was one of those things we were told was ready and just waiting for NavMesh - 2 years ago.

 

There are things shown in videos that arent ingame but these 2 examples are poor examples, personally i would of chosen the dragon from the beta trailer since that is misleading and not some in engine render and a preview of content they had never decided on a release date for.

At least you admit they used deceptive, and deliberately so, trailers which claimed things were "ingame" when they never were.

 

SHOE- by your logic everything is a script since to you a script and coding are the same thing, scripting is bad in you logic which means coding is bad. So when a palyer swings from his left he always swings with the same left swing animation which means it is coded that way which in shoe loagic means its a scripted event which in turn = bad. Hmm that kinda makes everything in almost every single game bad.

No, what he is saying is that the guard works like this - Guard is attacked, guard swings sword, blocks for X seconds and then repeats. There is no variation in that and it is a simple script ie fixed with zero variability or response to outside input apart from the initial aggro. An actual AI would have variations in timing of attacks, movement, different attack modes to select based on the situation etc

 

 But thee is nothing in the video to suggest anythihng he is doing has any pattern to it. Hence why you jumping to the conclusion its scripted has about as much merit as me jumping to the conclusion the guard is an actual player controlling it using the guard model.

You may claim that. but everyone watching the video can plainly see the attack, block, attack, block sequence working with the exact same delays every time.

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by RainBringer

Hah, what a worthless video.

 

At first, the folks at Stravault went through great trouble to create and post videos of "content" that wasnt in the game.

Get fooled by cinematics!

And again!

And whatever propaganda vids I have forgotten.

Now the quality of such propaganda has dipped down so badly...its so sad really that they dont have the manpower to even create a decent half assed cutscene.

 

 

Just like every other "tidbit" video that has come out about this new free patch, this one is also along the usual "first draft" lines. Makes me wonder if even the hardcore MO fanboys can still believe that SV can move past from the alpha stages to launch phase in barely a month's time (when this Awakening patch is set to be released).

 

What they showed hardly even qualified as AI, not taking into account if it was a static script that was played out or a shoddy attempt at iterating real time AI conditions. The dev testing this poor joke did not kite, juke, range attack or even run from the NPCs, why not? Since the revolutionary AI will bork up, is my guess. What kinda testing is this? Do the good folks at Starvault think that they can push out any mindless drivel of a "development video" and the hungry fanatics will lap it up like a gift from heavens without questioning its legitimacy? Probably so, as a couple of fanboys have demonstrated in this thread...

 

Looking forward to this free patch, its already holding onto the promise of bringing tons of entertainment to these forums, free of charge! Barely a month to go and SV are Still working on "first drafts", this could lead to a very fitting (anti)climax!

 sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but that first trailer? its an in engine render. you dont know what that means? well its a trailer created using assets with far higher textures and cinematic possible inside a game. This is actually very common practise aqnd something the UE3 is very good at. It can be seen in alot of game traielrs including U3 and NS2. Hopefully you will be able to tell the difference in the future.

Townlife traielr never had any kind of planned release date or even a rumoured one. But it seems to me like townlife will be a part of awakening with the guard ai etc.

 

There are things shown in videos that arent ingame but these 2 examples are poor examples, personally i would of chosen the dragon from the beta trailer since that is misleading and not some in engine render and a preview of content they had never decided on a release date for.

 

SHOE- by your logic everything is a script since to you a script and coding are the same thing, scripting is bad in you logic which means coding is bad. So when a palyer swings from his left he always swings with the same left swing animation which means it is coded that way which in shoe loagic means its a scripted event which in turn = bad. Hmm that kinda makes everything in almost every single game bad.

 

you hit the nail on the head, pre-determined behaviour SHOE. now read that again and then tell me how a random behavioural pattern applied to npc determining which attack/block they will use could possibly be scripted? and see how your logic just failed. Its the compelte opposite of a behavioural pattern, it is simply chaos. If instead the guard did a pattern of stab swing block over and over then yes that would indeed be a scripted behavioural pattern which really isnt a term often used anyway. But thee is nothing in the video to suggest anythihng he is doing has any pattern to it. Hence why you jumping to the conclusion its scripted has about as much merit as me jumping to the conclusion the guard is an actual player controlling it using the guard model.

"SHOE- by your logic everything is a script since to you a script and coding are the same thing, scripting is bad in you logic which means coding is bad. So when a palyer swings from his left he always swings with the same left swing animation which means it is coded that way which in shoe loagic means its a scripted event which in turn = bad. Hmm that kinda makes everything in almost every single game bad."

Duh? Scripts and Code are the same thing. The reason why the word "Script" is used is because the word meshes very well with user interaction, GUIs, and "actors". There is literally no difference and we could call any piece of code a script and any script a piece of code.

Scripted behavior isn't bad, nearly every game uses it, but from a game claiming to have "revolutionary AI" it burns my bottom to see the fanboys jumping on this as some sort of MMO miracle.

"you hit the nail on the head, pre-determined behaviour SHOE. now read that again and then tell me how a random behavioural pattern applied to npc determining which attack/block they will use could possibly be scripted?"

When you want to go to school or work do you roll the dice to figure out how to get there? Random works well in games like tetris where it's applied to objects that don't have behavior. When a computer is trying to simulate a human or human like behavior, it doesn't make any sense at all to just randomize what they do, because that's not the way humans operate. We make decisions based on "input" and we take the input from our surrounding environment.  

"Random" isn't artificial intelligence, unless you literally roll through life with a die in your pocket and make a dice roll for every decision you make

"But thee is nothing in the video to suggest anythihng he is doing has any pattern to it. Hence why you jumping to the conclusion its scripted has about as much merit as me jumping to the conclusion the guard is an actual player controlling it using the guard model."

The guard swings at 3.5 second intervals. Do you do that? Or is there some method to swinging, maybe you charge your attack and hold it to get the best shot in, maybe you strafe around to disoriente the player. Did you see the guard make those decisions? No, he was programmed to brainlessly swing every 3.5 seconds. That's not decision based and it's certainly not environmental input.

Maybe you just lack the technical expertise to identify what is obvious to me.

I really dont think anyone here, haters or fanbois, have seen enough of what they are putting in the game to make any call on if they are doing anything new or just regular AI.

Originally posted by xDayx

I really dont think anyone here, haters or fanbois, have seen enough of what they are putting in the game to make any call on if they are doing anything new or just regular AI.

 

Yay, playing the hater/fanboi card on people, that actually try to discuss this, to shrug it under the rug. Perhaps you should move away from the black/white world and enter the gray area.

I have to agree very much, that the scripting on this so called AI is very primitive. There has to be more variables in it than the constant attack->wait (x sec) block-> attack and so on. Awekening is scheduled to release on april 2012 right? They sure have a lot of work to do, if the only thing we've seen so far is not even on par with most other AI's.

Originally posted by Rawiz

Originally posted by xDayx

I really dont think anyone here, haters or fanbois, have seen enough of what they are putting in the game to make any call on if they are doing anything new or just regular AI.

 

Yay, playing the hater/fanboi card on people, that actually try to discuss this, to shrug it under the rug. Perhaps you should move away from the black/white world and enter the gray area.

I have to agree very much, that the scripting on this so called AI is very primitive. There has to be more variables in it than the constant attack->wait (x sec) block-> attack and so on. Awekening is scheduled to release on april 2012 right? They sure have a lot of work to do, if the only thing we've seen so far is not even on par with most other AI's.

 No one is shrugging anything under the rug. Im saying let us see the rug for ourselves instead of being shown a thread from it and judging the whole rug. Doing anything less may cause you to get the rug pulled out from under you.

this is going to be one heck of a bug fest......

just like every single other "expansios" or major patch. i just can't get excited.

Lol, your probably right. Im excited though.

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by wmada2k

Exactky, who said anything about it being revolutionary?

http://www.mortalonline.com/news/the-awakening

 

"Mortal Online's new AI is one that is sure to surprise you, with incredible features never yet seen in an MMORPG."

 

;-)

note the ambiguity in the descriptions: surprise, incredible, never yet seen.

none of these point directly towards it being good, quite funny really

im not going to comment on the video however as the guards were stationary. i want to see how they will behave in my kind of fight with a lot of movement

Originally posted by Cyde77

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by wmada2k

Exactky, who said anything about it being revolutionary?

http://www.mortalonline.com/news/the-awakening

 

"Mortal Online's new AI is one that is sure to surprise you, with incredible features never yet seen in an MMORPG."

 

;-)

note the ambiguity in the descriptions: surprise, incredible, never yet seen.

none of these point directly towards it being good, quite funny really

 

im not going to comment on the video however as the guards were stationary. i want to see how they will behave in my kind of fight with a lot of movement

Well the mediocrity didnt "surprise" me

Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but that first trailer? its an in engine render. you dont know what that means? well its a trailer created using assets with far higher textures and cinematic possible inside a game. This is actually very common practise aqnd something the UE3 is very good at. It can be seen in alot of game traielrs including U3 and NS2. Hopefully you will be able to tell the difference in the future.

Townlife traielr never had any kind of planned release date or even a rumoured one. But it seems to me like townlife will be a part of awakening with the guard ai etc.

 

There are things shown in videos that arent ingame but these 2 examples are poor examples, personally i would of chosen the dragon from the beta trailer since that is misleading and not some in engine render and a preview of content they had never decided on a release date for.

 

[Mod Edit]

Those trailers have one sole purpose: to hype the game. It showed "content" using graphics, models and everything in between that wasnt available in the game at that point for that one sole purpose: to hype the game. Henrick's modus operandi till date has been: to hype the game.

That leads us to these newer, more worthlessly constructed vidoes whose purpose over here is, you guessed it, to hype the game. He is throwing the rabid fanboys a bone to chew on till the new free patch is out, god forbid anyone should unsubscribe thinking that SV hasnt got the time or talent to make the new free patch: Awakening. So to allay such fears, he puts out these half assed "first draft" videos of things that might never make it to launch, since they never had a release date set in stone right?

So just because they never give a --/--/---- based date, its safe to assume that even though the chumps at starvault say "this feature is completed and we are about to launch it" it could very well mean that its going to release on 3012, right? After all they dint hold your pinky finger and make a promise that they would release it anytime in our lifetime even after hyping it up via videos and word of mouth right out the CEO's hype hole. Townlife, flash based UI, redesigned inventory, AI, etc etc etc were all ready years ago but SV hasnt released it yet since they did not PROMISE to do it in this century, Right??

@OP: to be honest, those fights barely lasted 30 seconds each. I find it very hard to come to any conclusive understanding if they were scripted by an escaped nasa monkey or if the new revolutionary AI is a few lines of code sent via a time machine from the 1980s. Entire video was worth less than ratcrap and less informative than a random line drawn on the pavement. Not to mention the fact that daddy's boy personally "edited" out the video and any alarming parts would have been obviously chopped off before being made viewable for the public. Well...that would solve the mystery why the fights are SO short....

Originally posted by RainBringer

Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 

There are things shown in videos that arent ingame but these 2 examples are poor examples, personally i would of chosen the dragon from the beta trailer since that is misleading and not some in engine render and a preview of content they had never decided on a release date for.

 

 

Those trailers have one sole purpose: to hype the game. 

More details: (sorry for double post but had to point this out)

Whatever you are smoking, its destroying your brain cells deathshroud.

My first link: Get fooled by cinematics! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYsUi80jOE4 : Mortal Online Trailer, posted on april, 2008.

0:00 to 0:03: Teaser produced using in-game content and technology

2:03 to 2:12: Enter, the dragon.

Engine render using in-game content and technology? You were saying?

Originally posted by RainBringer

Originally posted by RainBringer

Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 

There are things shown in videos that arent ingame but these 2 examples are poor examples, personally i would of chosen the dragon from the beta trailer since that is misleading and not some in engine render and a preview of content they had never decided on a release date for.

 

 

Those trailers have one sole purpose: to hype the game. 

 

More details: (sorry for double post but had to point this out)

Whatever you are smoking, its destroying your brain cells deathshroud.

 

My first link: Get fooled by cinematics! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYsUi80jOE4 : Mortal Online Trailer, posted on april, 2008.

 

0:00 to 0:03: Teaser produced using in-game content and technology

2:03 to 2:12: Enter, the dragon.

 

Engine render using in-game content and technology? You were saying?

 like i said its an in engine render, in engine renders generally use ingame assets but either up the polygon count significantly or use a higher quality texture, they also use more post processing and are esentially way to demanding to actually run as a game but are built using the engine. They are misleading by their very nature but a cheap way to create a good looking trailer for a game so this is nothing new. The assets are ingame but since it isnt exactly a gameplay trailer it doesnt have to be exact. Below are a few examples of in engine renders, you will note the much higher graphical quality of them over the actual games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&list=UUDoTjVGM9EX8BY7KNaCb0Jw&index=22&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM

I dont think sv are at fault for their first trailer, its an in engine render, its pretty obvious as well and they arent gameplay videos.

the reason why i said the dragon from the beta traielr and not from the rendered trailer is because its an actual ingame video as oppossed to one created using unreal engine.

also i generally take it as granted that a trailer is to hype the game no need to tell me that.

Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 like i said its an in engine render, in engine renders generally use ingame assets but either up the polygon count significantly or use a higher quality texture, they also use more post processing and are esentially way to demanding to actually run as a game but are built using the engine. They are misleading by their very nature but a cheap way to create a good looking trailer for a game so this is nothing new. The assets are ingame but since it isnt exactly a gameplay trailer it doesnt have to be exact. Below are a few examples of in engine renders, you will note the much higher graphical quality of them over the actual games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&list=UUDoTjVGM9EX8BY7KNaCb0Jw&index=22&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM

 

I dont think sv are at fault for their first trailer, its an in engine render, its pretty obvious as well and they arent gameplay videos.

 

the reason why i said the dragon from the beta traielr and not from the rendered trailer is because its an actual ingame video as oppossed to one created using unreal engine.

 

also i generally take it as granted that a trailer is to hype the game no need to tell me that.

I dont need you to tell me what an engine render is, what I had said in my previous post before that part got moderated.

Not only renders but cutscenes, cinematics and basically a good deal of limited control / no control motion vidoes in today's games are created using tools which employ higher degrees of bloom effects, polygon counts, HQ textures, higher degrees of camera FOVs, magnified effects, etc. 

Most people, might come as a shock to you, when looking at a game trailer that says:

  Teaser produced using in-game content and technology

right there as a statutory warning in the first 3 seconds think that this is exactly how the game will look like.  Most MMO gamers have no idea that such movies are made with "content" that will not be feasible to put inside the game due to the graphic intensive load on the player's machine. So please, cut the bullshit that this is common knowledge and a common practice in the MMO industry to hype trailers with such slogans while fooling the potential player.

When SWTOR employed HQ textures in cutscenes and did not provide it in game, people raged like they had been robbed off the skin from their noses, get some perspective or educate yourself in development Ethics before running off such BS just to favour SV's less than honest practice.

Yea, to your eyes SV arent at fault with the first scamming trailer, or the second deceitful video, or the third edited load of propaganda. Everything that SV does is A-OK in your eyes, I get it. I finally understand that to you SV is the epitome of success and can never be at fault. If you remember I once gave you credit for being a more non-fanatical pro-SV poster here, I take it all back. I further hope to never get pulled into any strawman arguments with you since no amount of reasoning will suffice. And I have been very civil in posting this message and I really hope no mod would again edit out anything here and leave my post's complete meaning hanging yet again in uncertainty.

Just had to say this, the video clearly states in-game content and shows a dragon in it. Why does anyone need to look at any other video for more proof of SV's lies?   

Originally posted by RainBringer

Just had to say this, the video clearly states in-game content and shows a dragon in it. Why does anyone need to look at any other video for more proof of SV's lies?   

I don't play the game anymore but there is possibly a dragon in the game already.      Dragons in MO are supposedly epic creatures that never respawn once dead.        Given Starvaults love for mysteries and puzzles I'd say the one shown in chains in the teaser is just one of those puzzles that nobody has found/unlocked.      It was stated that Dragons (and other epic creatures) will be controlled by another human not AI so I don't think it requires any sort of conspiracy to cover up something easily possible.      

What is also possible is that you are letting your hatred for the game rule out a bit of rationality here.