Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Dreadblade

Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.

 

Ok, lets play real here shall we.

Prime time : lots of you are tossing these words around a LOT here. Anyone have any set times for this mythical Prime Time? Is that your prime time, or Fred's Prime Time, or Sandy's Prime Time? Is that the hours your home from work, or the time your wife plays when your not home from work yet? Is that the time the people play in NY or in Denver? How about maybe its the people who play before they eat diner...or is it those that play after they eat diner? And exactly which time is that anyway? 

Server Status :  Nobody on these forums has ANY idea what the values are behind the names assigned to the server status page. Not to mention nobody here has any idea what the status is on those servers when you are not sitting there watching it. SO lets cut the crap on this one too please. This has no intrinsic value whatsoever to the facts behind how many people are playing this, or any other game. Do the world a favor and stop trying to make it.

Location Population : Seriously, Ok, so you seen a number on the top of your screen. It shows you what again? Ahh thats right, when I am standing in a particular area, at any given time, in whatever phase I am in, and removing any other areas in that area which are counted seperately from my particular area, it then shows me how many people there are logged in. Yeah, did you all get all that this time around? No, you can only get a snapshot idea of how many people might be around you doing similar things to you. You can not formulate server population off this small sampling. 

Videos on YouTube : Oh yeah, we have all seen them. The guy that goes out of his way to find a place nobody goes, snaps a 2 min vid of that very fact, then drops it on YouTube screaming how empty the world is. Dude, seriously, ANYONE can make one of these in ANY game on the market. Hell, I'll bet you I can make one of these in GW2 on launch day even! They mean nothing, just someone droping a spin vid on everyone hoping the stupid believe the crap he is spoonin. Now I'm not calling anyone here stupid, I know nobody here would ever fall for something this rediculous. 

Last but not least - my favorite - Xfire : No, no matter how many numbers you pull off that site, it will never represent the entirety of the gaming population. It simply can't, because we dont all use it. Every game that has come out in the past 3 years which I have played, the first thing I do when I join a guild is ask who uses XFire. I can count the number of people on two hands. And thats asking litterally thousands of people over the 3 years. Really, what you 10 people do with your time is fine, but dont dare to tell the rest of us that what you do determines what the rest of us are doing and thinking.

 

So yeah, if you can come up with some real facts for once, something we can sink our teeth into that will actually show us this mythical writing on the wall....then we will follow you right off that cliff any day. Until then, lets stick to truth please, not opinion.

So what you're saying is when it says there's 200 people on the Empire fleet, in primetime, which for most is between 7:00 pm and 10:00 pm on most nights, that number is inaccurate and there's actaully, let's say 500 more players on another fleet, since there's more than one Empire fleet and it's in another instance. If that number is not correct as you put it, then why does it stay the same no matter where i'm at on any given planet. If that number says 100 players and i'm standing in the cantina on Corusant, then i fly over to the jedi temple ruins and it still says 100, why is that. If i can stand there and count maybe 10 players total in that area, then why doesn't that number reflect that change.

The one true fact is, TOR has 227 servers total. Spread 1.7 million evenly, which is not accurate because some servers are lighter than others, and there should be 7,488 on each server total populace. Even on a good primetime Sat night, you can't hide the deadness and emptiness of the servers. I'm not trying to prove anything, it's just that it's kinda mind boggling to think that this game has that many people subscribed and playing. Also, let me point out, i'm one of them.

Originally posted by Dreadblade

versus one month ago when we had 5-6 full, 8-10 very heavy and 20+ heavy, but everyone is still playing ok got ya

Again with the Strawman?? No. not EVERYONE is still playing. Some have obviously unsubbed..you see them pissing about here.

Go back and internalize my example I gave you. It was an effort to instruct you on how this very scenario in your quote happens.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Dreadblade

versus one month ago when we had 5-6 full, 8-10 very heavy and 20+ heavy, but everyone is still playing ok got ya

Again with the Strawman?? No. not EVERYONE is still playing. Some have obviously unsubbed..you see them pissing about here.

Go back and internalize my example I gave you. It was an effort to instruct you on how this very scenario in your quote happens.

 

 

Obviously what you do not internalize is the fact that server populations do in fact give a good indication how a game is doing, so please go back and internalize the fact there are not nearly the same amount of full, very heavy and heavy severs there once were. So my effort is to instruct you on how not to be so blind and admit to the fact that there has been a large population drop within the last month, once you internalize that you might see the light.

Originally posted by Dreadblade

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Dreadblade

versus one month ago when we had 5-6 full, 8-10 very heavy and 20+ heavy, but everyone is still playing ok got ya

Again with the Strawman?? No. not EVERYONE is still playing. Some have obviously unsubbed..you see them pissing about here.

Go back and internalize my example I gave you. It was an effort to instruct you on how this very scenario in your quote happens.

 

 

Obviously what you do not internalize is the fact that server populations do in fact give a good indication how a game is doing, so please go back and internalize the fact there are not nearly the same amount of full, very heavy and heavy severs there once were. So my effort is to instruct you on how not to be so blind and admit to the fact that there has been a large population drop within the last month, once you internalize that you might see the light.

Sorry, is that English?  I think I glean from your paragraph that you don't wish to understand, that you wish to remain ignorant, that you lack the intellectual heft to tell the difference between server status and server populations.

That's okay.  I'm quite glad you've admitted your short comings.  It's the first step to a wider world.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Dreadblade

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Dreadblade

versus one month ago when we had 5-6 full, 8-10 very heavy and 20+ heavy, but everyone is still playing ok got ya

Again with the Strawman?? No. not EVERYONE is still playing. Some have obviously unsubbed..you see them pissing about here.

Go back and internalize my example I gave you. It was an effort to instruct you on how this very scenario in your quote happens.

 

 

Obviously what you do not internalize is the fact that server populations do in fact give a good indication how a game is doing, so please go back and internalize the fact there are not nearly the same amount of full, very heavy and heavy severs there once were. So my effort is to instruct you on how not to be so blind and admit to the fact that there has been a large population drop within the last month, once you internalize that you might see the light.

Sorry, is that English?  I think I glean from your paragraph that you don't wish to understand, that you wish to remain ignorant, that you lack the intellectual heft to tell the difference between server status and server populations.

That's okay.  I'm quite glad you've admitted your short comings.  It's the first step to a wider world.

I thought it sounded exactly like the crap you spew TBH

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by William12

You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think.   You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about.  Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ?  But they do not outright lie about offical numbers.  What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal,  but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another.    What do you people not get about that ?  He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.

Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ? 

People who have been cancelled for days, weeks, even months but still have time on their accounts are considered "active subscriptions".

So yes, they can technically say "We have 1.7 million subscriptions", but they most definitely cannot say they have 1.7 million players. The sheer amount of dead/dying servers attest to that.

 The sheer amount of dead/dying servers is none. You have no idea how many new subscribers there are either. It's not as if they stopped selling the game.

 Log into the NA side during "peak" times, even on weekends, and glory in the number of "light" servers. There've been countless threads on the official forums for months asking for merges. Deny all you want, the game is treading water right now. And the longer they take to do merges and get the remaining pops all together so peole have others to play with, the further down the slope it's gonna go. Better hope a whole lot of Asians love Star Wars.

 Light is not dead or dying. People were asking for merges when all the servers were completely full. It's not the sort of game that requires a full server to play. I'm not so foolish as to take what you say as fact.

Hey, you can wear the blinders as long as you need to bro. And you're right, it doesn't take a full server to play a mostly singleplayer game. But it takes a good amount of people on the server to justify it being called an mmo. And most of the servers in ToR no longer qualify.

Where are all these 1.7million players playing then? Kind of curious...

They're not, that's the whole point. There are NOT 1.7 million players, there are 1.7 million "active accounts", which includes everyone who has ever cancelled but still has time left on their account.

Originally posted by Dreadblade

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Dreadblade

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Dreadblade

versus one month ago when we had 5-6 full, 8-10 very heavy and 20+ heavy, but everyone is still playing ok got ya

Again with the Strawman?? No. not EVERYONE is still playing. Some have obviously unsubbed..you see them pissing about here.

Go back and internalize my example I gave you. It was an effort to instruct you on how this very scenario in your quote happens.

 

 

Obviously what you do not internalize is the fact that server populations do in fact give a good indication how a game is doing, so please go back and internalize the fact there are not nearly the same amount of full, very heavy and heavy severs there once were. So my effort is to instruct you on how not to be so blind and admit to the fact that there has been a large population drop within the last month, once you internalize that you might see the light.

Sorry, is that English?  I think I glean from your paragraph that you don't wish to understand, that you wish to remain ignorant, that you lack the intellectual heft to tell the difference between server status and server populations.

That's okay.  I'm quite glad you've admitted your short comings.  It's the first step to a wider world.

I thought it sounded exactly like the crap you spew TBH

I don't doubt that you'd think they were the same. I mean , you also think server status = server population, so your judgement is already in question.

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by William12

You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think.   You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about.  Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ?  But they do not outright lie about offical numbers.  What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal,  but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another.    What do you people not get about that ?  He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.

Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ? 

People who have been cancelled for days, weeks, even months but still have time on their accounts are considered "active subscriptions".

So yes, they can technically say "We have 1.7 million subscriptions", but they most definitely cannot say they have 1.7 million players. The sheer amount of dead/dying servers attest to that.

 The sheer amount of dead/dying servers is none. You have no idea how many new subscribers there are either. It's not as if they stopped selling the game.

 Log into the NA side during "peak" times, even on weekends, and glory in the number of "light" servers. There've been countless threads on the official forums for months asking for merges. Deny all you want, the game is treading water right now. And the longer they take to do merges and get the remaining pops all together so peole have others to play with, the further down the slope it's gonna go. Better hope a whole lot of Asians love Star Wars.

 Light is not dead or dying. People were asking for merges when all the servers were completely full. It's not the sort of game that requires a full server to play. I'm not so foolish as to take what you say as fact.

Hey, you can wear the blinders as long as you need to bro. And you're right, it doesn't take a full server to play a mostly singleplayer game. But it takes a good amount of people on the server to justify it being called an mmo. And most of the servers in ToR no longer qualify.

Where are all these 1.7million players playing then? Kind of curious...

They're not, that's the whole point. There are NOT 1.7 million players, there are 1.7 million "active accounts", which includes everyone who has ever cancelled but still has time left on their account.

Well if that's the case, then come around 10 days from now, a more truer picture should emerge. I know my timecard and sub ends on the 19th of this month, ao i will assume other's  does as well.

The simple fact for me is this. I see less players logged on everyday. I don't exactly hang around one area so unless the vast majority are actively avoiding me, then I gain a pretty fair perspective as I travel around the galaxy. The endless wait for Warzones show me that they are not all hiding there, and I doubt everyone has decided to like the awful space section. I don't have access to the imperial zones, but from what I've seen in the Republic areas there is less than 500 people on at average, based on the times I'm on. I know a lot of republic players refilled as imps,but that is another problem.

There may be 1.7 initial subs, they may have retained most of them, but they are not logging on, and if someone isn't usng the service, the logical conclusion is they will cancel it.

Maybe 1.2 may turn it around, I doubt it asthey still haven't addressed some of the issues that have been around for a while.

Originally posted by musicmann

Ok, this doesn't make sense. TOR has 227 servers total. If you spread 1.7 million evenly on all those servers you get 7,488 players per server. Now since not everyone is logged on at the same time, it would be best to take a snap shot of how many are on during peak hrs. of the day. From what i've been seeing on my server, which is, Grand Master Zym, which i have 2 characters, one Empire and the other republic. On the fleets, empire has like 150 to 175 and Republic is around 120. Going from planet to planet on each character, you only have like 20 to 40 players on each of those planets and sometimes it's less. So, if you add it up, Empire during peak hrs has around, i'll take a high number, 735 players logged on. Republic has around 680 players. Now, i know i had my share of extended playing sessions, but after peak hrs. those numbers fall drastically. So either that 1.7 million is alot of people who are paying and not loggin in or someone is flat out not telling the truth.

This game is instanced to DEATH though.  Aren't there multiple INSTANCES of all of those planets?  I'm not sure where I got that idea, but I think it was from someone complaining it was really a lobby game co-op style and not an MMORPG at all.....

Be pretty hard to measure population manually in a game with so many instances.

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by musicmann

Ok, this doesn't make sense. TOR has 227 servers total. If you spread 1.7 million evenly on all those servers you get 7,488 players per server. Now since not everyone is logged on at the same time, it would be best to take a snap shot of how many are on during peak hrs. of the day. From what i've been seeing on my server, which is, Grand Master Zym, which i have 2 characters, one Empire and the other republic. On the fleets, empire has like 150 to 175 and Republic is around 120. Going from planet to planet on each character, you only have like 20 to 40 players on each of those planets and sometimes it's less. So, if you add it up, Empire during peak hrs has around, i'll take a high number, 735 players logged on. Republic has around 680 players. Now, i know i had my share of extended playing sessions, but after peak hrs. those numbers fall drastically. So either that 1.7 million is alot of people who are paying and not loggin in or someone is flat out not telling the truth.

 

This game is instanced to DEATH though.  Aren't there multiple INSTANCES of all of those planets?  I'm not sure where I got that idea, but I think it was from someone complaining it was really a lobby game co-op style and not an MMORPG at all.....

Be pretty hard to measure population manually in a game with so many instances.

Its not as instanced, as some would lead people to believe.  Most of the quests are in shared areas, and those areas that are instanced are usually just a quick visit due to some story.   Its certainly way less instanced than WoW and GW.

Planets do break into instances, if there's to many people on them and is a mechanic many mmo's use.   Although I've not seen that happen since the first week.

Is it me or is the staff here trying to make the forums popular again? haha this was a flame war at the title given, but eh whatever, it's a game doing good or bad, it matters only to the players that play it. Everyone here that puts hate on the game and doesn't even play it effects them how again? hehe yea, that's what I thought too.

Anyways, good for them , I still enjoy it for now, never know what the future may bring but at least this is good news in the content department.

and AOL still had 3.5 million subscribers paying about $25 a month for dial-up as of Nov 2011.

I don't care what you say. Just because something has alot of people subscribing to it, doesn't mean its good. In addition statistics can be manipulated in many deceiving ways, every statistic has to be taken with a grain of salt because if a company is going to make an announcment they are going to do it in a way that they spin the numbers as favorably as they can.

For instance did they mention how many of their current subscribers are set to auto-renew. Sometimes people forget to cancel stuff & they own it up to their carelessness in canceling the account & don't dispute the charges. Or the people who "took advantage" of the founder title offer by not unsubscribing (or who got taken advantage of depending on how you look at it) and who later regretted their decision.

The biggest mark of SWTOR will be after the 7th month mark (1 month for 30 days included and when the 6month subs expire- IE thats the same point where Rift population seemed to drop like a rock)

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by Snikz
nice. hope this proves to doomsayers that the game is healthy. bowling we just need 1.2

Doubt it they will just  say hes lying and ignore the fact that lying to investors or misleading them with inaccurate numbers is fraud and would land the CEO in  prison for 5+ years.

yep they say blizzard is lying about their numbers all the time to, so i don't think anyone should let it bother them.

Huge IP called starwars with millions of fans a well known developer called bioware with millions of fans backed up by a huge publisher called EA and only 1.7 million and they are even proud of numbers lol.

If WoW lose subs is going from 12 to 10 million thats alot but they still make LOADS of money.

If SWTOR lose subs(my gues by time GW2 launch) its -300.000 subs:P

1.7 these days with subs is nothing unless they offer a truely great game that offers totally different game then most others do but they DON'T so my educated gues is it's dead before you know it hehe.

I really don't believe them. All my friends who ran off to play SWTOR already quit. These probably aren't concurrent subscribers they are talking about. If anyone ever paid a sub they are counted in that 1.7m figure. WoW did the same numbers trick for years in figureing their claimed 12 million users.

Originally posted by forest-nl

Huge IP called starwars with millions of fans a well known developer called bioware with millions of fans backed up by a huge publisher called EA and only 1.7 million and they are even proud of numbers lol.

If WoW lose subs is going from 12 to 10 million thats alot but they still make LOADS of money.

If SWTOR lose subs(my gues by time GW2 launch) its -300.000 subs:P

1.7 these days with subs is nothing unless they offer a truely great game that offers totally different game then most others do but they DON'T so my educated gues is it's dead before you know it hehe.

Don't know what planet you live on where 1.7 million isn't a huge numbers for a subscription based game but there are maybe two sub based games that may have that number of players or more unless all my time away while exploring the vast worlds of TOR have made me blind to some kind of trend.

And where do you get the 300k number from.  It seems you are predicting that when GW2 launches TOR will lose 1.4 million players and am wondering if that's the case where are you drawing your numbers from or is it just your guess?

I have a couple smile moments when evr i play.

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by forest-nl

Huge IP called starwars with millions of fans a well known developer called bioware with millions of fans backed up by a huge publisher called EA and only 1.7 million and they are even proud of numbers lol.

If WoW lose subs is going from 12 to 10 million thats alot but they still make LOADS of money.

If SWTOR lose subs(my gues by time GW2 launch) its -300.000 subs:P

1.7 these days with subs is nothing unless they offer a truely great game that offers totally different game then most others do but they DON'T so my educated gues is it's dead before you know it hehe.

Don't know what planet you live on where 1.7 million isn't a huge numbers for a subscription based game but there are maybe two sub based games that may have that number of players or more unless all my time away while exploring the vast worlds of TOR have made me blind to some kind of trend.

And where do you get the 300k number from.  It seems you are predicting that when GW2 launches TOR will lose 1.4 million players and am wondering if that's the case where are you drawing your numbers from or is it just your guess?

Don't know what planet you ive on, but they do NOT have 1.7 million players.

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by forest-nl

Huge IP called starwars with millions of fans a well known developer called bioware with millions of fans backed up by a huge publisher called EA and only 1.7 million and they are even proud of numbers lol.

If WoW lose subs is going from 12 to 10 million thats alot but they still make LOADS of money.

If SWTOR lose subs(my gues by time GW2 launch) its -300.000 subs:P

1.7 these days with subs is nothing unless they offer a truely great game that offers totally different game then most others do but they DON'T so my educated gues is it's dead before you know it hehe.

Don't know what planet you live on where 1.7 million isn't a huge numbers for a subscription based game but there are maybe two sub based games that may have that number of players or more unless all my time away while exploring the vast worlds of TOR have made me blind to some kind of trend.

And where do you get the 300k number from.  It seems you are predicting that when GW2 launches TOR will lose 1.4 million players and am wondering if that's the case where are you drawing your numbers from or is it just your guess?

Don't know what planet you ive on, but they do NOT have 1.7 million players.

Since your eyes are so wide open point me to exactly where I say TOR has 1.7 million players.