Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by tixylix
(mod edit)

SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

An article one day before the shutdown announcement

When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

I put that a little harsh, sorry.

My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.

NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

Originally posted by superniceguy

NGE Dec 15th 2011 > Pre-NGE > NGE Nov 2005

All the added content certainly makes up for the lack of the 32 profession system

NGE with 32 professions and Jedi being worked for would be the ultimate SWG, but does not and did not exist.

 

This I will disagree with.

Bio Engineer

Creature Handler

Did not equal that crap Pet system they put back in SW:G

Spy did not come Close to Ranger

Squad Leader and Carbineer/Pistols/Rifles did not equal Officer.

Medic was a Shadow of its former self and did not meld Doctor/Medic/CM well at all

BH and Jedi were Jokes after the NGE

Only thing I can say about Commando is that they finally got all the HW working right.  The AoE spam got old with the "Fire with Nothing Targetted" crap.

Smugglers (MUS title and 'content' not withstanding) never got to Smuggle. And I missed making Spice.  

And throwing all the Melee Profs (Pike/Fencer/Unarmed/Swordsman/Brawler) into expertise crap for Medic/Officer/Spy/Smuggler...And Rifles and Pistols and Carbines into expertise for Officer/Spy/Smuggler/BH/Medic did a Dis-service to what those Professions were actually capable of pre-NGE.

I wanted Pre-NGE Professions + November 30th 2011 Content.

Originally posted by hipiap

Originally posted by superniceguy

NGE Dec 15th 2011 > Pre-NGE > NGE Nov 2005

All the added content certainly makes up for the lack of the 32 profession system

NGE with 32 professions and Jedi being worked for would be the ultimate SWG, but does not and did not exist.

 

Bio Engineer

Creature Handler

 

Best systems EVAR.

/sadface

Originally posted by Sandbox

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

Funny....SOE still billed me for SW:G until September 2011....and I was able to Play SW:G until December 15th....and I was able to Post on the SW:G forums at the SOE site until 12/29/2011.

The CURB ended November 15th, 2005

A LOT of People quit the game because of the NGE and the way it was handled.

But the game continued until just under 90 days ago Mate.

No matter how you wish otherwise.

And Since I was there from 2004 until 2011........I can speak from experience.

Originally posted by hipiap

Originally posted by Sandbox

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

Funny....SOE still billed me for SW:G until September 2011....and I was able to Play SW:G until December 15th....and I was able to Post on the SW:G forums at the SOE site until 12/29/2011.

The CURB ended November 15th, 2005

A LOT of People quit the game because of the NGE and the way it was handled.

But the game continued until just under 90 days ago Mate.

No matter how you wish otherwise.

 

And Since I was there from 2004 until 2011........I can speak from experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know when SOE terminated the service for SWG, but for me it died Nov 15, 2005.

As I said earlier a few posts back; my statement was a little harsh, sorry for that.

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by hipiap

Originally posted by Sandbox

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

Funny....SOE still billed me for SW:G until September 2011....and I was able to Play SW:G until December 15th....and I was able to Post on the SW:G forums at the SOE site until 12/29/2011.

The CURB ended November 15th, 2005

A LOT of People quit the game because of the NGE and the way it was handled.

But the game continued until just under 90 days ago Mate.

No matter how you wish otherwise.

 

And Since I was there from 2004 until 2011........I can speak from experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know when SOE terminated the service for SWG, but for me it died Nov 15, 2005.

As I said earlier a few posts back; my statement was a little harsh, sorry for that.

I did see your appology for corking off the way you did...Thus I made sure to be Snarky and not Rude.

;)

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by tixylix
(mod edit)

SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

An article one day before the shutdown announcement

When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

I put that a little harsh, sorry.

My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.

NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

I'll agree that they simplified the professions but I wouldn't say they took away the Star Wars world simulation.  That part of the game wasn't changed with the NGE, nor was it loot based for gear.  Equipable loot items were far, far inferior to crafted items and buff loot items didn't conflict with crafted buff items.  You would not have been able to play without crafted items.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by tixylix
(mod edit)

SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

An article one day before the shutdown announcement

When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

Exactly. I was having so much fun playing SWG too. I was online the moment it was announced the game will be getting shut down. Struggled logging in for a month after because I hated playing a game I knew would end. I stopped playing in May.  I told myself, I could give TOR a try and the more I read about it, the more disapointed I was getting.  I read message boards for 3 months until I found a game called Linkrealms.  It saved me from sifting through trash (cutscenes).

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by tixylix
(mod edit)

SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

An article one day before the shutdown announcement

When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

I put that a little harsh, sorry.

My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.

NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

I'll agree that they simplified the professions but I wouldn't say they took away the Star Wars world simulation.  That part of the game wasn't changed with the NGE, nor was it loot based for gear.  Equipable loot items were far, far inferior to crafted items and buff loot items didn't conflict with crafted buff items.  You would not have been able to play without crafted items.

bollocks and you know it.

they put a linear quest to level up in detriment of doing your own thing. 

that linear quest supplied the player with everything he could possibly need via loot drops or quest rewards.

they put flashy quest icons atop NPCs with friggin floor indicators to show him where he had to run next.

the friggin heroics were raid dungeons which dropped the most desired loot and encouraged the player to repeat those countless times to get the best gear. POIs became ghost spots and drops from the wilderness were rendered useless.  When was the last time you went on a hunting expedition or visited a POI to grind or loot?

interdependancy between players was completely scrapped. not much of a simulation when you can get by yourself just fine. 

ITVs made whatever simulation the game first intended a joke. Push a button and spawn anyhere anytime? LOL. So much for simulation...

the risk factor was completely taken out of the game with the nerf of NPCs, removal of death penalties, and increase in vehicle and avatar speed. 

sandstorms and rain ceased to affect accuracy...

....

man the list goes on and on but i am not going to bother because you are either trolling or you've just proven (yet again) why you were part of Nancy's target market. 

Originally posted by eddieg50

  As soon as the op started talking about the grind I knew he just did not understand why bioware was making a game such as this.  This is a game to be savored, this is not a rush to the end game. With story, cut scenes and great voice overs bioware wants the journey to be important.  All those who do not want to go on the journey are going to be unhappy and for the rest of us - Let the Journey begin

completely disagree, i played some, i'll be it i didn't get past the intro areas however from what i've seen of my own play and my roommates gameplay i have to say that the grind is definitely intentional. It's not to be savored grinding is never fun and the killtenrats series of quests gets boring. Why do i have to spend ten minutes talking to someone about killing ten enemies before heading out for each and every quest?  Where are the varieties of objectives? Why couldn't they have at the VERY least added two choices to acomplish rather then simply kill this many kill that many, or the oh so boring, run all the way over there and talk to an npc. Didn't they have communicators of some kind in this time period? And that's the other thing, why does anyone have to return to the quest giver WAAAAAY back at camp to turnin anything at this point? What's up with that?

The VO's are great but when you take them out of the picture you are left with the 2004 version of world of warcraft's questing system and since Cata even Blizz has somewhat learned from their mistake by making some questing in the beginning zones a remote turnin.

The problem isn't the game or the company the problem is their design it's old and it shows, the VO's and companions are fun but really why isn't the rest of the game better then what's out now and why aren't there more common sense ui elements put into the game?

Originally posted by Troneas

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by tixylix
(mod edit)

SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

An article one day before the shutdown announcement

When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

I put that a little harsh, sorry.

My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.

NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

I'll agree that they simplified the professions but I wouldn't say they took away the Star Wars world simulation.  That part of the game wasn't changed with the NGE, nor was it loot based for gear.  Equipable loot items were far, far inferior to crafted items and buff loot items didn't conflict with crafted buff items.  You would not have been able to play without crafted items.

bollocks and you know it.

 

they put a linear quest to level up in detriment of doing your own thing. 

They added XP rewards to quests, but there was no reason why you couldn't go out and grind off NPCs like in the past

 

that linear quest supplied the player with everything he could possibly need via loot drops or quest rewards.

 For the initial levels, sure, but once you got past level 40ish the loot starts to become inferior to crafted.

they put flashy quest icons atop NPCs with friggin floor indicators to show him where he had to run next.

 NPCs always had icons above their heads, even in pre-cu.  In the very beginning of the legacy quests waypoints were very specific as to where you needed to go and who to talk to but as you leveled up and are assumed to have learnt how things work those obvious hints dissapeared

the friggin heroics were raid dungeons which dropped the most desired loot and encouraged the player to repeat those countless times to get the best gear. POIs became ghost spots and drops from the wilderness were rendered useless.  When was the last time you went on a hunting expedition or visited a POI to grind or loot?

 Sure, the loots were desirable but they didn't compete with items crafted by crafters.  In the case of weapons and armour they intentionally had very low damage stats and little or no stat bonuses.  You could break those down into a schematic to have them crafted by a weaponsmith/armoursmith to have them made far superior (we're talking 500+ DPS difference here).  Furniture items were given out in schematic form.  The buff items (what few there were that dropped from heroics) didn't take the place of any crafted foods or drinks.  Anyone who was grinding a pet up could probably tell you just how many times they went to a POI ;)

interdependancy between players was completely scrapped. not much of a simulation when you can get by yourself just fine. 

 In world PvE you could do ok on your own if you were skilled with the game and knew your profession well.  There was plenty where you did infact need to rely on others to get what you needed, and certain professions would make that easier to achieve (Officer and Medic are obvious examples).  I'm sure I don't need to go into how interdependancy played a big part in PvP.

ITVs made whatever simulation the game first intended a joke. Push a button and spawn anyhere anytime? LOL. So much for simulation...

 Most ITV's didn't take you anywhere you wanted, just to a shuttle or starport on the planet.  There were two ITV's towards during the last 2 years of the game that did let you pre-set 2-3 locations anywhere you could drop an ITV and then use it to go to any of those 2-3 points from anywhere in the game but they were rare/expensive and not overly common.  You also had to set the points ahead of time

the risk factor was completely taken out of the game with the nerf of NPCs, removal of death penalties, and increase in vehicle and avatar speed. 

I'll give you this, the risk factor was too low.  I would have welcomed harsher penalties to deter people from being so complacent about dying.  I remember early on in the NGE they were publicly brainstorming the idea of adding death penalties in the form of bringing back insurance and those items that weren't insured could be looted, much the same as it was when the game was first released.  Unfortunately, too many people cried, even when lesser penalties were offered that they scraped the idea and later just added cloning sickness.

I'm rather indifferent on the subject of the vehicle and avatar speeds.  I don't see how it really had an effect on the world aspect of the game - you still saw the world, just at a different rate.

I'd say the NPC difficulty at the end of the NGE was greater than it was most of the CU but lesser than after they improved the NPC AI towards the end of the CU.  With the later content they added they were starting to get some good abilities added to the AI that made them a challenge.

 

sandstorms and rain ceased to affect accuracy...

 

....

 

man the list goes on and on but i am not going to bother because you are either trolling or you've just proven (yet again) why you were part of Nancy's target market. 

 

 

I think I managed to correct most of what I wrote to be in the past tense :(

Originally posted by Sandbox

 

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

The what now?

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Sandbox

 

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

The what now?

Duh... Why ask?

It's all about opinions, you should know that.

Even if you are cluless, the opening line should have hinted that my post are about opinions, since we all know the game just closed.

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Sandbox

 

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

The what now?

Duh... Why ask?

It's all about opinions, you should know that.

Even if you are cluless, the opening line should have hinted that my post are about opinions, since we all know the game just closed.

I was just curious as to what criteria you were using to label SWTOR a "failure." My mistake for expecting anyone to clarify what they say with, yanno, actual facts.

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by Sandbox

 

SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

I agree with your last line.

The what now?

Duh... Why ask?

It's all about opinions, you should know that.

Even if you are cluless, the opening line should have hinted that my post are about opinions, since we all know the game just closed.

I was just curious as to what criteria you were using to label SWTOR a "failure." My mistake for expecting anyone to clarify what they say with, yanno, actual facts.

Originally posted by Obraik

Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

I highly doubt anyone would be hoping that. I know I never did. Having experienced the SWG fans in all their fickleness in my time there I've been hoping for them to stay as far away from TOR as humanely possible.

I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

I can see playing the free month to see if you liked it or not. But it took you THREE months to figure this simple part out? It only takes me at best three days to figure out if an MMO is worth my sub or not.

That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

My main complaints:

• The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives. 
•  
• What alternatives were those? There were a couple quests that were class specific but they were few and far between. The rest of the quests were the EXACT same as everyone else. You could do some space pew pew for awhile, but killing the same mobs over and over again gets old.  TOR's class specific storylines blows anything SWG ever did out of the water. Add in the world quests, warzones and operations and SWG isn't even in the same league as TOR.
•  
• Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 
• Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.

Yeah, having your buddies put up bases for you to bust was SO much more war like. And trinkets? Do you REALLY want to go there? At least these trinkets are earned and not bought in a card game.

• The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.

I don't remember SWG having much for customization in their UI other than the change in colors and style. Big whoop. And UI customization is coming soon, which will be leaps and bounds more than you could do with NGE's UI.

• Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.
• Much better than the NGE was at launch. With that I had to move a cursor over the target in order to hit a bunch of speedy npcs on crack.Yes, I know it got improved, but since you're not giving TOR the benefit of time here I'll do the same for SWG.
• A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 
• What possible reason did you have to craft in the NGE? I could see making this case for pre-cu SWG. but after the NGE the best stuff was looted or aquired in game. That was why so many of the game's crafters left.

There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing,

 

I won't miss the hundreds of empty houses in Tatooine..

 

the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems. 

The travel systems are barely any different. You hop on a speeder to get around the planet and you hop onto a ship to get to the next planet. With TOR there's a couple of more steps on the way, but if this helps filter out the ADD crowd that's fine with me. The GCW system was fun for a few goes and then it got redundant. And the whole base busting thing was an absolute joke.

 

I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.

 

Again, ironic considering the NGE was the ultimate WOW clone...Again, I could see making this case with the SWG that was before the NGE because that game WAS different and had some interesting stuff that should have been worked on and perfected. But the NGE? Puh-leeze.

 

 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Obraik

Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

1) I highly doubt anyone would be hoping that. I know I never did. Having experienced the SWG fans in all their fickleness in my time there I've been hoping for them to stay as far away from TOR as humanely possible.

I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

2) I can see playing the free month to see if you liked it or not. But it took you THREE months to figure this simple part out? It only takes me at best three days to figure out if an MMO is worth my sub or not.

That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

My main complaints:

• The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives. 
•  
• 3) What alternatives were those? There were a couple quests that were class specific but they were few and far between. The rest of the quests were the EXACT same as everyone else. You could do some space pew pew for awhile, but killing the same mobs over and over again gets old.  TOR's class specific storylines blows anything SWG ever did out of the water. Add in the world quests, warzones and operations and SWG isn't even in the same league as TOR.
•  
• Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 
• Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.

4) Yeah, having your buddies put up bases for you to bust was SO much more war like. And trinkets? Do you REALLY want to go there? At least these trinkets are earned and not bought in a card game.

• The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.

5) I don't remember SWG having much for customization in their UI other than the change in colors and style. Big whoop. And UI customization is coming soon, which will be leaps and bounds more than you could do with NGE's UI.

• Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.
• 6) Much better than the NGE was at launch. With that I had to move a cursor over the target in order to hit a bunch of speedy npcs on crack.Yes, I know it got improved, but since you're not giving TOR the benefit of time here I'll do the same for SWG.
• A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 
• 7) What possible reason did you have to craft in the NGE? I could see making this case for pre-cu SWG. but after the NGE the best stuff was looted or aquired in game. That was why so many of the game's crafters left.

There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing,

 

8) I won't miss the hundreds of empty houses in Tatooine..

 

the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems. 

9) The travel systems are barely any different. You hop on a speeder to get around the planet and you hop onto a ship to get to the next planet. With TOR there's a couple of more steps on the way, but if this helps filter out the ADD crowd that's fine with me. The GCW system was fun for a few goes and then it got redundant. And the whole base busting thing was an absolute joke.

 

I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.

 

10) Again, ironic considering the NGE was the ultimate WOW clone...Again, I could see making this case with the SWG that was before the NGE because that game WAS different and had some interesting stuff that should have been worked on and perfected. But the NGE? Puh-leeze.

 

 

 

2: That isn't exactly relevant now is it? Whether someone takes a couple of days or a couple months is up to them and their schedules. I recently unsubbed my tor account as well after I really thought like... "I don't want to go to belsavis again" and found little reason to stay.

3: Allthough the lvl-ing experience in tor may be different and perhaps better because of the voice acting and all the options, it isn't perfect at all. The class quests for example are just a part of the open world quests. What is bad is that you can't rely on the class quests alone or you will be too low lvl to complete them. You have to do either the world quests / warzone's / flashpoints / space with them since you can't beat a lvl 24 as a lvl 18.

I am not going to say swg was better, just different but tors lvl-ing experience isn't so "revolutionary" as some claim it to be.

4: The thing that is referred to is both zone control and static bases here.

5: The UI was never a problem in swg so why customize it?

6: We'll have to see, don't we. However it's just one part of the game. If one part gets improved upon, that normally isn't enough to resub and try things again.

7: Uhm, what kind of armor was exactly better looted then crafted? How about half the ship parts (boosters / droid interfaces / missile launchers / missiles / chaff and to some extend capacitors and engines)? And what kind of weapons didn't have to be deconstructed to make them the way they should be? What kind of clothing or food were better when looted?

There was plenty of reason to have crafters in swg. In swtor, crafted items are currently "meh" for the most part except for some. What is worse is that "crafters" have to lvl up with combat questing because they need to go to certain planets to gather x resource or they go broke sending their crew on gathering missions.

8: There was house cleanup at times and if you want to place your house in a city (which was recommended because of bonusses), you had to log in at times or you risk having your house marked for removal.

9: Except that when using a speeder in tor, every place in tor is filled with npcs who do blow up your bike and after that... you. It gets worse when you group up and your groupmates are using speeders in npc filled area's and the group gets split up because of this. I usually disband in a pickup group whenever I notice others are using speeders (after which I get a "huh" response, ah well).

If you compare tor tatooine with swg tatooine, then in swg I could just avoid npc's and feel like I am on a desert planets with large open spaces. In tor, the graphics may be better but there are people or npc's "everywhere" which isn't realistic.

10: The nge was trying to become wow, true but after the nge, a lot of elements from pre nge were brought back because people weren't coming in as they hoped for and people left because they didn't want the nge. In any case, tor is a shell of what the nge was.

Originally posted by Nasja

Originally posted by ktanner3
 

3: Allthough the lvl-ing experience in tor may be different and perhaps better because of the voice acting and all the options, it isn't perfect at all. The class quests for example are just a part of the open world quests. What is bad is that you can't rely on the class quests alone or you will be too low lvl to complete them. You have to do either the world quests / warzone's / flashpoints / space with them since you can't beat a lvl 24 as a lvl 18.

I never said it was perfect. I said it was way better than SWG, which it is. With SWG it was the legacy and that was it.If I leveled my jedi to 80 guess what quests my bounty hunter was doing? The exact same thing. With TOR I have a jedi story line that will not be repeated by my bounty hunter.  My bounty hunter won't even run into the same planets as the jedi until he reaches Tattoine. TOR gives you far more options for questing than SWG ever did and they are far more interesting. After doing the legacy series once, I never wanted to do it again.

.

7: Uhm, what kind of armor was exactly better looted then crafted? How about half the ship parts (boosters / droid interfaces / missile launchers / missiles / chaff and to some extend capacitors and engines)? And what kind of weapons didn't have to be deconstructed to make them the way they should be? What kind of clothing or food were better when looted?

There was plenty of reason to have crafters in swg. In swtor, crafted items are currently "meh" for the most part except for some. What is worse is that "crafters" have to lvl up with combat questing because they need to go to certain planets to gather x resource or they go broke sending their crew on gathering missions.

If just being a pure crafter and nothing else is your preferencee then TOR is not the game for you. We've known that for quite some time. For me personally, leveling as a crafter is far more fun in TOR than it ever was in SWG. I never got what was so fun staring at a status bar. Maybe being a mindless drone in a factory is your way of having fun. For me, it was incredibly boring. Also, if you went broke sending your companions on missions then you're spending your money frivolusly which is your fault, not the game's.. I send my companions on missions all the time and have no problem making money. The difference is I don't waste my money on every single skill that is available from a trainer. THAT is where you start wasting money.. I only spend my money on what I need and I make plenty back from what I craft and sell. i also make sure to grab every resource I can while I'm on the planets leveling.

8: There was house cleanup at times and if you want to place your house in a city (which was recommended because of bonusses), you had to log in at times or you risk having your house marked for removal.

That's nice, still doesn't change fact that Tatooine was just one big eye sore.

9: Except that when using a speeder in tor, every place in tor is filled with npcs who do blow up your bike and after that... you. It gets worse when you group up and your groupmates are using speeders in npc filled area's and the group gets split up because of this. I usually disband in a pickup group whenever I notice others are using speeders (after which I get a "huh" response, ah well).

Yeah, heaven forbid that you can't just speed your bike anywhere you want to go. It's called CHALLENGE. This is Tattoine, not Coruscant. Tattoine is suppose to be a dangerous place with sandpeople in it, not a strollers paradise. If you are disbanding because you are afraid of suprise attacks from NPCs then you need to stick with games like WOW or Hello Kitty online.

If you compare tor tatooine with swg tatooine, then in swg I could just avoid npc's and feel like I am on a desert planets with large open spaces. In tor, the graphics may be better but there are people or npc's "everywhere" which isn't realistic.

Now I'm starting to wonder if you even played the game. There is tons of empty space on Tattoine in TOR. The Dune Sea alone is one big barren empty space.

10: The nge was trying to become wow, true but after the nge, a lot of elements from pre nge were brought back because people weren't coming in as they hoped for and people left because they didn't want the nge. In any case, tor is a shell of what the nge was.

Wow.To me, NGE took what could have been a great game and made it a piece of sh*t. Trying to compare the NGE to TOR is like trying to compare bologna to a steak. Tor has far more planets than SWG ever had with a leveling experience that is more fun than any MMO I've ever played. With the constant updates that the devs are giving, it will be interesting to see what the game looks like a year from now. But for me at least, it's far better than SWG was on even it's best day, which wasn't many. It really is too bad that SWG was taken down, but that is the fate every MMO will have to face one day.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Nasja

Originally posted by ktanner3
 

3: Allthough the lvl-ing experience in tor may be different and perhaps better because of the voice acting and all the options, it isn't perfect at all. The class quests for example are just a part of the open world quests. What is bad is that you can't rely on the class quests alone or you will be too low lvl to complete them. You have to do either the world quests / warzone's / flashpoints / space with them since you can't beat a lvl 24 as a lvl 18.

I never said it was perfect. I said it was way better than SWG, which it is. With SWG it was the legacy and that was it.If I leveled my jedi to 80 guess what quests my bounty hunter was doing? The exact same thing. With TOR I have a jedi story line that will not be repeated by my bounty hunter.  My bounty hunter won't even run into the same planets as the jedi until he reaches Tattoine. TOR gives you far more options for questing than SWG ever did and they are far more interesting. After doing the legacy series once, I never wanted to do it again.

.

7: Uhm, what kind of armor was exactly better looted then crafted? How about half the ship parts (boosters / droid interfaces / missile launchers / missiles / chaff and to some extend capacitors and engines)? And what kind of weapons didn't have to be deconstructed to make them the way they should be? What kind of clothing or food were better when looted?

There was plenty of reason to have crafters in swg. In swtor, crafted items are currently "meh" for the most part except for some. What is worse is that "crafters" have to lvl up with combat questing because they need to go to certain planets to gather x resource or they go broke sending their crew on gathering missions.

If just being a pure crafter and nothing else is your preferencee then TOR is not the game for you. We've known that for quite some time. For me personally, leveling as a crafter is far more fun in TOR than it ever was in SWG. I never got what was so fun staring at a status bar. Maybe being a mindless drone in a factory is your way of having fun. For me, it was incredibly boring. Also, if you went broke sending your companions on missions then you're spending your money frivolusly which is your fault, not the game's.. I send my companions on missions all the time and have no problem making money. The difference is I don't waste my money on every single skill that is available from a trainer. THAT is where you start wasting money.. I only spend my money on what I need and I make plenty back from what I craft and sell. i also make sure to grab every resource I can while I'm on the planets leveling.

8: There was house cleanup at times and if you want to place your house in a city (which was recommended because of bonusses), you had to log in at times or you risk having your house marked for removal.

That's nice, still doesn't change fact that Tatooine was just one big eye sore.

9: Except that when using a speeder in tor, every place in tor is filled with npcs who do blow up your bike and after that... you. It gets worse when you group up and your groupmates are using speeders in npc filled area's and the group gets split up because of this. I usually disband in a pickup group whenever I notice others are using speeders (after which I get a "huh" response, ah well).

Yeah, heaven forbid that you can't just speed your bike anywhere you want to go. It's called CHALLENGE. This is Tattoine, not Coruscant. Tattoine is suppose to be a dangerous place with sandpeople in it, not a strollers paradise. If you are disbanding because you are afraid of suprise attacks from NPCs then you need to stick with games like WOW or Hello Kitty online.

If you compare tor tatooine with swg tatooine, then in swg I could just avoid npc's and feel like I am on a desert planets with large open spaces. In tor, the graphics may be better but there are people or npc's "everywhere" which isn't realistic.

Now I'm starting to wonder if you even played the game. There is tons of empty space on Tattoine in TOR. The Dune Sea alone is one big barren empty space.

10: The nge was trying to become wow, true but after the nge, a lot of elements from pre nge were brought back because people weren't coming in as they hoped for and people left because they didn't want the nge. In any case, tor is a shell of what the nge was.

Wow.To me, NGE took what could have been a great game and made it a piece of sh*t. Trying to compare the NGE to TOR is like trying to compare bologna to a steak. Tor has far more planets than SWG ever had with a leveling experience that is more fun than any MMO I've ever played. With the constant updates that the devs are giving, it will be interesting to see what the game looks like a year from now. But for me at least, it's far better than SWG was on even it's best day, which wasn't many. It really is too bad that SWG was taken down, but that is the fate every MMO will have to face one day.

 

3: Thats not exactly true, yes.. you will have a different starter world and capital world but other then that you are playing on the same planets. Doesn't matter if Taris & Balmorra have different versions, they are still the same planets. Besides that, many people create alts on the same faction, not different factions.

7: You aren't lvl-ing a "crafter", you are lvl-ing another "hero" in swtor. Everyone in tor is a crafter and then I notice you mention the word *I* a lot. In swg, if you lvl-ed a crafter there was a good chance that you did that not just for yourself but also for the community. And if you only bought the schems from the trainer that were meant for yourself, then thats further proof that swtor is a single player game with multi player co-op which is what we mentioned.

9: Right, so if you group up in the open world.. it's best to tell them that sticking together is a "challenge", and if you disband, you "lost"? I can just go stealth on some of the professions and sneak past the npc's. It only takes a bit more time. And then, in particular pvp-ers consider npc's a non-challenge and usually think they can go past these npc's on a speeder which off course they cannot (hehe) but it's just best not to group up with anyone in the open world in tor I take it... lol. What kind of mmo are we actually talking about.

And about the dune sea, no thats not empty at all. In swg there were empty spots so houses / cities could be placed, not so in swtor where there is "something" everywhere. Have you forgotten that there is both a sarlacc pit and a world boss in the dune sea in swtor tatooine? How about a czerka bunker and both factions outposts with numerous quests for both factions? The planets are much more populated in swtor and it was a big surprise to see so many people and beasts on both Tatooine & Hoth, both having such a harsh climate.

10: So you think you will do anything on Quesh after you have done all quests there? I feel swtor has fewer planets then swg but thats because you just do some quests and move on. Why would anyone go to Ord Mantell other then to pick up a few datacrons? And there isn't any way to go to Korriban other then making a sith toon.

I think the op forgot this was a Bioware game, the company that specializes in story not a rush to the end game, and lets face it people rush to the end game in mmo's because the story sucks, the wall of text is tireing to read, voice overs which add immersion are almost non existant in games.  How many times have you heard someone say " the fun stuff does not happen til end game or lvl 80-you hear that about almost every game with some exceptions of sand box type games.    Bioware wanted to make a game where people had fun getting to the end game and I think for the most part they succeded, what will be interesting is where they go from here