Originally posted by Norpan

Well it´s not ONLY the grapihcs, but the graphics ofc makes you feel more "in" the game, especially with MOs FPW.

Graphics have zero impact on whether a game is a sandbox. Nor does FPV make something more immersive by default.

 

 Weapon crafting with over 142,662,744 different combinations weapons,

Yet players only ever use the one item that is overpowered in whatever broken patch SV just put out.

armor crafting,

See above

player housing,

Comparing the useless timesinks in MO to the practical and sandbox usages of UO's housing is laughable.

cooking system,

Which everyone on the official forum agrees is broken and useless. Raw ingrediants are as good as cooked food.

thievery,

Another broken system, which is a common trait among MO "features".

hunger/sleep system, gene system on mounts

Both introduced in Dawn and both bugged to this day.

 territorial control,

What purpose does TC serve in MO? Why does it cost guilds instead of reward them?

pets,

With the same non-existant AI of every NPC in the world, and will need constant help from GMs to stop disappearing.

seemless world,

There are these things called nodes in MO. Those are your seams.

 

 So MO still got ALOT going for it, and it ain´t no lightyears behind. Please... If someone want´s all this with nice graphics, then MO IS a choice.

Not really, if someone wants broken or badly implemented systems in a dead PVP arena masquerading as a world, choose MO. If you want a working game world with all the features that were promised for MO and more, play UO or any other alternative.

Originally posted by Betel

Not really, if someone wants broken or badly implemented systems in a dead PVP arena masquerading as a world, choose MO. If you want a working game world with all the features that were promised for MO and more, play UO or any other alternative.

 

Well, I´m not suprised you keep on pulling the "broke"-system and dead PVP arena card. The game is far from dead. Which goes to show you have no clue of how many peeps are playing the game right now. It´s ALOT of peeps all over Nave even though most of AQ quit for now. And the game DOES work as it is now, even though you try to say othervice. People that plays the game right actually enjoys it, while people like you, that don´t play the game, are as clueless as always. But hey, haters gonna hate...

And, once again, if someone, like me for instance, can´t stand the stoneage graphics of UO, MO IS a alternative. But keep on bashing it. Only goes to show how desperate you guys are geting now that Awakening is around the corner. So stay here and pull your hate cards. In the meantime I go back and enjoy MO as it is.

Im having fun playing MO and have been for a while now(1+ yrs).  And thats really all that counts.

And yes I have played alot of MMO's so Im very well educated about what else is out there, check my profile.

You are free to enjoy MO as much as you like, but the facts show that the vast majority of people who payed for MO do not play anymore. You are <1% of the people that have tried MO, that says it all about the players verdict.

And believe me, I am waiting for Awakening more than you, it's going to be hilarious  :)  Top quality work entertainment.

However, on the substantive point, we seem to all agree that there are far better and more polished sandbox games than MO so there is no reason to play it apart from personal taste - which appears to be restricted to that 1%.

I think "Better" is purely an opinion.

EVE- probably the best out of the bunch polished-wise. But if you cant get past immersing yourself in a spaceship its hard to enjoy. I also dont like the fact you can fly through planets etc.

Wurm- The graphics and 'junk' laying around the world make me not want to play the game. No quests is a plus. Combat is very 1990's. Again an immersion thing. I will say there are alot of cool concepts at work here through the damage to your different limbs/hitboxes, movement through different terrain etc.

Xsyon-A great crafting/resource and setting up your camp game but beyond that their isnt much. Combat is also very 1990's. Probably the best looking game out with Terraforming and no quests is a plus.

UO-It had its day and has changed so much of what made it fun previously. The graphics are also dated as I personally am more used to 3d

DF-No skill-cap so everyone makes a Fighterrangermage. Not much sand here aside from ships and crafting. My personal 2nd choice if Mortal wasnt around though.

Minecraft-I havent played it. I dont think I can get past the blocks.

UWO- Its fun to learn the different spheres but I lost interest after that.

Fallen Earth- Crafting and resource gathering can be fun and you can utilize it well like you can in Xsyon. But with the quests etc. It feels like someone set out to make a themepark mmo, and stopped halfway and called it a sandbox.

Care to name anymore which you think may be better?

And to top that off I can be critical of MO to

Mortal Online- A great game for immersion using 1st person and graphics are above par for a sandbox. Crafting/resources are on par with Xsyon if not a little more detailed in terms of processing. Refreshingly there are no quests. The skill cap removes everyone making the same character. Melee combat using a M&B style is refreshing over the standard target and spam a mouse button although magic is a bit OP, and range combat still leaves something to be desired. Large battles can display bugs. SV is a small company that doesnt have alot of experience creating MMO's and sometimes it really shows. PVE entering the game will give MO something its desparately missing although knowing the track record we may need to wait until they bug fix it after the expansion gets released. 

How is the above critical in any way lol

Originally posted by Betel

How is the above critical in any way lol

 

 This isnt critical?

"Large battles can display bugs. SV is a small company that doesnt have alot of experience creating MMO's and sometimes it really shows."

..."although knowing the track record we may need to wait until they bug fix it after the expansion gets released. "

---

EDIT: oh did I fail to mention how horses get stuck sometimes? I think that the  "SV is a small company that doesnt have alot of experience creating MMO's and sometimes it really shows." encompases the bugs and the AQ-fiasco.

Oh I can add that Im not really 100% that people cant break through into palisade walls by exploiting or dupe items... But I still play because nothing else "In My Opinion" gives me the level of immersion, excitement and gameplay that MO does. Good enough for you?

The three words "in my opinion" will do, as objectively there is no reason to play MO if you want a full loot sandbox, there are far better alternatives.

And that was the point of the discussion.

Originally posted by Betel

The three words "in my opinion" will do, as objectively there is no reason to play MO if you want a full loot sandbox, there are far better alternatives.

And that was the point of the discussion.

 

OK, so wich once? "In you opionion"... Cause I have a feeling some here will disagree with you. I think xDayx summed up the competition quit nice. So if you wanna play a 3D sandbox fantasy MMO, wich one is better then MO now?

Name a better full loot sandbox and please give reasons. I really cant argue against EVE. If I could RP a ship I probably could play it but cant.

-EDIT: I would also have to get used to point and click destination travel (freerealms does that, I have a kid who plays), and the spreadsheet-UI.  

UO is a better sandbox and it's 15 years old. EVE is a better sandbox too.

BTW Norpan, where did I say 3D? I just said sandbox, but keep redefining the terms and you might hit gold who knows (once every other 3D MMO closes)     :)

If I wanted to I could use a similar tactic to bash UO. Such as posting links about hacks...

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/258767-hacked-again-goodbye-uo.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5Q519TcgU

Or I could post a unflattering  picture of the top down graphics.

Or I could mention about all the tweaks that they have made to the game such as dumbing down character creation or ffast travel.

Or I could mention the myriad of bugs or Duping that went on UO that Lingered and lingered. But Im not butt-hurt over it.

The game has had 15 years of being out. It better be polished by now. MO has had almost 2 years.

And like I said I really cant argue with EVE. I just dont like playing a ship. I need a person at least to play.

But Im not like that. I will post the games strengths and weaknesses and let you make your own choices. Such as complete religion systems, skill caps, a huge world, the good things about the game.. and talk about the things I dont like, the changes, the graphics etc.

Originally posted by xDayx

If I wanted to I could use a similar tactic to bash UO. Such as posting links about hacks...

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/258767-hacked-again-goodbye-uo.html

How is a player getting hacked (happens all the time) comparable to the CEO's account with GM powers being hacked?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5Q519TcgU

For that matter, what does any hack have to do with working sandbox features?

 

Or I could post a unflattering  picture of the top down graphics.

Graphics also have nothing to do with sandbox features.

Or I could mention about all the tweaks that they have made to the game such as dumbing down character creation or ffast travel.

You can still create your own character and travel on foot/boat/etc. Options are almost the definition of sandbox.

 

Or I could mention the myriad of bugs or Duping that went on UO that Lingered and lingered. But Im not butt-hurt over it.

Neither am I, because the core of the game, the sandbox elements, worked. Can you say the same about MO? Nope.

 

The game has had 15 years of being out. It better be polished by now. MO has had almost 2 years.

It was more polished and had more sandbox elements at launch, I know as I played both games at launch.

And like I said I really cant argue with EVE. I just dont like playing a ship. I need a person at least to play.

 So you agree it is a better implemented sandbox than MO, objectively speaking?

Originally posted by Betel

UO is a better sandbox and it's 15 years old. EVE is a better sandbox too.

 

BTW Norpan, where did I say 3D? I just said sandbox, but keep redefining the terms and you might hit gold who knows (once every other 3D MMO closes)     :)

I said if someone wants a 3D fantasy sandbox MMO, and most people want 3D games these days. Believe it or not. So, if you want a 3D fantasy sandbox MMO, MO is a good choice, even though it has bugs etc. It´s as simple as that.

I do know EVE has had its share of bugs also. Ship swapping, UI bugs, I know that theyve even been hacked. I didnt play for more than a month so because I couldnt get into it.  So in summary I cant make a fair call on if its better than mortal. Perhaps it is because I havent seen that much hate surrounding Eve. So all you people go play EVE unless you cant play a spaceship, then go play MO.

If I wanted to I could post on every single EVE thread about their past and their bugs,plus anything else that happens in the future to it.  My point is I could go on any games threads and post about how the game has changed, what bugs it has, how its been hacked, how the developers say one thing and do another. Watch....

Lotro- This game used to be decent, but since Lothlorien Turbine has really dropped the ball. It started with the Token system.And from there it only went downhill.. Why do you think it went F2P? Becuase Kate Paiz wouldnt know how to make a game if she tried.  Why dont you think they have movable hooks in housing anylonger and why is post-processing with water still screwed up? (Insert thread about someone who cant even launch the game).

--Why dont I do this?---

Because if I dont play the game I dont care. I spend my time theory-crafting, and planning, about the game Im currently playing. If you arent playing an MMO at the time. You can spend time talking about and SPRG's or RTS's youve been playing too.

Originally posted by Norpan 

So stay here and pull your hate cards. In the meantime I go back and enjoy MO as it is.

Why is it hate as soon as someone uses factual arguments  to criticize the game (e.g. "MO has fewer features than UO"), while subjective opinions (e.g. "I like MO for what it is") are considered totally rational as long they are used to defend it? I mean, if someone kept saying "MO sux lol" and used no other arguments, the term hater would be understandable. But that's not the case here.

On the contrary, in fact. It seems to me some of MO's most dedicated defenders lack the ability to use factual arguments, instead resorting to name-calling and personal attacks when someone owns them in a discussion. To me, that's really "pulling the hate card"; as soon as you find yourself lacking any facts supporting your cause, you simply label your opponent "hater" or "troll" instead of replying to his actual arguments.

I understand you guys love MO and that you're able to live with its shortcomings, but those opinions of yours do not change the facts. MO is not a working sandbox game, it's a PvP game with some crafting and gathering tacked on. To even compare it to UO or EVE is insulting to those games.

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Norpan 

So stay here and pull your hate cards. In the meantime I go back and enjoy MO as it is.

Why is it hate as soon as someone uses factual arguments  to criticize the game (e.g. "MO has fewer features than UO"), while subjective opinions (e.g. "I like MO for what it is") are considered totally rational as long they are used to defend it? I mean, if someone kept saying "MO sux lol" and used no other arguments, the term hater would be understandable. But that's not the case here.

On the contrary, in fact. It seems to me some of MO's most dedicated defenders lack the ability to use factual arguments, instead resorting to name-calling and personal attacks when someone owns them in a discussion. To me, that's really "pulling the hate card"; as soon as you find yourself lacking any facts supporting your cause, you simply label your opponent "hater" or "troll" instead of replying to his actual arguments.

I understand you guys love MO and that you're able to live with its shortcomings, but those opinions of yours do not change the facts. MO is not a working sandbox game, it's a PvP game with some crafting and gathering tacked on. To even compare it to UO or EVE is insulting to those games.

No offense meant, but why does a game have to be about facts?  Video games are supposed to be fun.  If you enjoy great, if you don't no big deal, there are many to choose from.  There is no factual arguement about what is fun to a person.