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3/08/12 1:54:53 PM#41
Originally posted by bunnyhopper Your response was honest and true. Most vets won't admit that SP has any meaning other than choice. Sure at a certain point you max out the relevant skills for a ship, but there are MANY support skills and skills that allow certain configurations that go into your fitting and effectiveness that take several months to train. At some point (several months in) you can even the playing field on a single ship, but even that takes much time to be truly equal. And no the analagy to WoW/RIFT isn't perfect but there is some truth to it: weak skills or getting ganged up on can let noobs beat vets in any MMO. Thing is in WoW/Rift you can even the playing field much faster. And WoW for example basically resets this advantage every expansion. And no, I don't play WoW either (I'm an ex-vet to many MMOs including EVE and WoW). GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" |
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3/08/12 2:00:47 PM#42
Think of like this, in a short time you can compete in the 100m but you will lose at the decathlon.
I used to play Astro Empires, a browser space empire game, which started a new server every 6months, each new server the same names and the same guilds get to the top of the leader board, EvE would be the same, you would flop around like a fish whilst Pre-formed corps split into specialised roles cornering the markets in materials, harassing your shipping and blocking off access to decent resource. If you can't face going into the universe and learning to compete then a new server will not help you one bit. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/08/12 2:01:14 PM#43
Can you provide an example of such said support skills and configurations? |
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3/08/12 2:12:14 PM#44
For someone who cant get into Eve because they feel threatened by the fact other people have more stuff than they do is probably not the personality type that will play Eve longterm in any case. The real fact of the matter is that todays newb is tommorows Vet. If you look at the game today I bet you will find very few players that were around when the game first opened up. In fact (I dont know this personally to be true) but I would bet that a lot of the "power" players - those that control strong corporations or alliances - were at one time newbs long after the game came out originaly and they had to fight their way up against their own set of long time vets. This game only requires about 6 months of play time to become a truly "long time vet". If you are any good as a player and hope to be the kind of person to dominate in null sec(which would be the only reason to start on a brand new shard) then 6 months will give you all the time you need to get a set of skills sufficient to compete in null sec and become one of those "rich" old timers so to speak. Beyond that 6 month window the main thing that starts to happen is your character begins to diversify more and more as you pick up side skills. By the end of your first year you should have enough skills and equipment that you should be able to compete head to head versus anyone on the server assuming you are otherwise a good pilot. There is a constant influx of new pilots and a constant egress of older pilots leaving plenty of room for enterprising players to move up through the political system, create new corps, new alliances and grab a chunk of space or attach themselves to an existing corp or alliance and move up through an established power and take over that corporation or entity. The essence of Eve gameplay revolves around players creating power structures in which to grab and hold territory and the conflicts that arise from the attempts to control that territory. There are all types of territory to control in Eve beyond Null Sec that allow for players to move up through the "ranks" as it were. There are wormholes, low security areas etc that less powerfull players, corps and alliances can get their feet wet in before moving on to Null Sec. |
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3/08/12 2:14:49 PM#45
Originally posted by Gdemami Look I'm not going to link to a skill plan to prove my point I've been through this argument before with other vets. All of the builds vets link to that show how you can be viable in 2-3 months DO NOT get every skill that adds to your effectiveness (dozens and dozens of them) to rank 5 nor do they get all the skills required for a full T2 loadout to truly get an equal ship to the vets (ignoring the cost of all those fittings and ammo types). And that is only the case of maxing out a simple frigate. I'm tired of this debate I've been part of it before. I long ago posted a list of all the diversionary tactics that vets use to try to show that SP's don't matter and I disproved each of them (in my mind of course). I don't feel like rehashing it. The vets will never concede the point. As I said, the proof is simple. Tell the vets you are giving noobs free skill points and see how they scream... GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" |
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3/08/12 2:14:56 PM#46
Originally posted by Gdemami I would think things like targeting, capacitor max and recharge kind of skills are what is meant, rather than specific ship skills etc. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/08/12 2:23:15 PM#47
Originally posted by gainesvilleg Give the whole server 5m SP and nobody would argue. Why should noobs get special treatment? The feeling of entitlement won't get you far in Eve (or in life for that matter). "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only coded it." |
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3/08/12 2:23:46 PM#48
Originally posted by RefMinor He knows exactly what I meant in my opinion. He wants to get into a skill plan debate and show how you can be viable very quickly (very quickly in EVE being 2-3 months). But vets they like to use the term "viable" as opposed to "equal" for a reason. There is a big difference. To be equal, even in a frigate the worst class of ship in the game (unless you like to tackle or swarm in large groups) will take you several months. GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" |
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3/08/12 2:25:21 PM#49
Originally posted by dave6660 The feeling of entitlement seems to be a little heavier on the vet side if you ask me. "I am entitled to that skill point advantage because I've been here longer" Glass houses my friend... GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" |
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3/08/12 2:33:06 PM#50
Adding another server would not solve the problem only delay it as the new server would eventually run into the same issue. You can’t keep adding new servers to EVE because a few people feel they can’t “catch up” doing so will only serve to divide the community and thin the population across servers.
Personally I would like to see CCP add new features and means of interaction that allowed new players the sense of contributing without feeling left behind. I had hoped walking in stations would eventually lead to the option of colonization were players could go planet side and expand that way but instead we got DUST'ed. It would have been nice to have a system like DUST but focused on new EVE players. Sort of a employment system where corporations could hire new players to help out in expanding their colonies through various station and planet side tasks including FPS PvP. Think of it as a mentoring system but at the corporate level where new pilots can opt’d to be listed in a database for hiring and certain jobs yield more gain for a corporation if the character is young. Not a perfect solution but something to encourage new players to interact with older players and vice versa, and instead of dividing the community it would help it grow.
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3/08/12 2:47:26 PM#51
Originally posted by gainesvilleg This is probably more true in EVE than in other games, anyone rolling solo in epic gear either has a ton of cash, a ton of balls, or is a really dumb fuck. Whatever the reason they will get trolled to shit on eve-kill when they die (and they will die) with said epic gear on. SP does give you options, but tell me what does your 50 million SP matter when you are in a Wolf (all lvl 5 skills) and I (30Million SP) am in a Rapier (all lvl 5 skills) and its you, me, the stars and my double webs.
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3/08/12 2:54:17 PM#52
Originally posted by gainesvilleg Eve uses a real time skill trainnig system so being there longer gives you more SP. That is how the system works and has nothing to do with entitlement. You want a ton of SP the minute you sub so you can feel everything is "fair", that is entitlement. "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only coded it." |
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3/08/12 2:56:06 PM#53
Originally posted by Unshra Finding a corp in Eve (even for new players) is not hard. Finding a good corp where all the personalities mesh is very hard even for long time players. "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only coded it." |
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3/08/12 2:57:48 PM#54
Ah, so your point is to make vague, misleading, baseless and false claims then?
You make irrelevant, extreme points no one is arguing and based on those assumptions you are making implications about how the game works. Your assumptions are invalid. |
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3/08/12 3:01:51 PM#55
Sure, there are support skills but non takes months to train to allow you certain fittings as the guy implies, at least to my knowledge. I think my question is at place. |
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3/08/12 3:08:48 PM#56
Originally posted by Gdemami That was true for my character. Three years of skill training I was able to fly 3 of the 4 race ships (up to BS) but didn't have any of the gun specializations to level 5 at any size. I also only had 1 shield skill to level 5 since I flew all armor tanked ships. I didn't have any of the armor compensation skills to level 5. All my drone specialization skill were only at 3. The list goes on and on... "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only coded it." |
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3/08/12 3:12:11 PM#57
Seems like the OP is stuck in the mentality of the current cadre of "Theme Park" games ... the tossing out of "e-peen" was a dead give -away you have to realize that EvE's sandbox is a completley differerent approach to MMO, and you also have to have a differnt approach to playing it. if you spent some time actually observing and understanding the draw of EvE (which by the way still has influx of new players and quite a lot of movement right now both in noobie corps and the old dogs too) your question would answer itself. This game is NOT about instant gratification, and the political landscape that has evolved over time IS the content. To put this in terms you might understand, it would be like starting WoW over again .. but throw out all the existing content (including vanilla and expansion packs) That probably doesnt even really make a good Analagy ... The draw of Eve is the living breathing world where the players are the content ... nuke that and start over ? I dont really see the point. it would be like asking for a game with no content .. and who wants that ?
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3/08/12 3:12:28 PM#58
Originally posted by Gdemami His point was to be able to fly equally not fly at all, either way, no to another server. "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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3/08/12 3:20:09 PM#59
Even if it was, it is based on false assumption that "vets" have maxed out skills. They don't.
Read it again:
So I am asking again: What skills take several month to train to allow these configurations and what these configurations are supposed to be? |
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3/08/12 3:30:46 PM#60
Originally posted by Calfis Applause......:D |
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