Why complain that "DF/RF made the world empty" if the real problem is about the game not having any meaningful content to do outside instances?

Originally posted by delete5230

How can you argue this ?.....It's not the players choosing this direction, it's absolutely clear Blizzard set up the structure to encourage it.

- All good gear when leveling is given in dungeons.

-All exp and leveling is given in dungeons and open world,  BUT much more in dungeons

Out or curiousity, where do you think the best gear when leveling was before the LFD was introduced?

Or the best exp?

Yes, it is the players choosing this direction.

Originally posted by 1carcarah1

Why complain that "DF/RF made the world empty" if the real problem is about the game not having any meaningful content to do outside instances?

people were able to make their own "content",like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYRrc0HMxt0

but blizzard made tools which made world futile,therefore stuff like that cant run anymore,for example.

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by 1carcarah1

Why complain that "DF/RF made the world empty" if the real problem is about the game not having any meaningful content to do outside instances?

people were able to make their own "content",like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYRrc0HMxt0

but blizzard made tools which made world futile,therefore stuff like that cant run anymore,for example.

 

 

At that time, grinding pvp kills had a meaning. :[

hee and i cant stop watching that clip now.

I really don't see what the problem is with a LFG tool. If a game has one and you hate it dont play the game. Pretty simple huh? Why do you think that every MMO gamer wants to conform to YOUR style of play? What makes you think your way is better? I'll take a LFG tool over standing in IF for hours on end doing nothing any day.

There is always the option of not using that tool. Get in a guild and do guild runs. If you can find a guild that wants to waste 20mins running to the instance with you for no reason other than you don't like the tool. 

To sum it up I just don't think WoW is the game for you. It hasn't been for me for about a year. There are many reasons to not like WoW I just don't see the LFG tool as one of them considering it is optional.

@up

Partially agree.

Imho best thing is to don't play games with LFG tool if you don't like it.

I don't and I don't play games that have them. 

Originally posted by DAS1337

Lowest common denominator.

 

That's why.

 

No one actually wants to work for anything anymore.  They can't even be bothered to gather at a dungeon entrance.  They can't be bothered to travel to a battleground.  Hell, there are some games with LFG quest finders built into the dungeon finder.  Players can't even be bothered to travel to a quest area.  I think it's pathetic. 

 

This is why I don't play MMO's anymore.  The companies make multiplayer lobby games and the players eat it up like sheep.  No wonder they get bored with the content so easily, you can skip through 90% of the game world instantly.

If only you knew how wrong this statement is in regards to video games.

Content development focused on Instances, not these tools, was what broke this game

A Dungeon Finder "shrinks" the world (of warcraft) of any game. When I was playing Vanilla, I was excited at the prospect of the flying mounts. I hadn't even considered how the fundamental dynamics of the game would change with their introduction. Literally, it felt like half the population of the gamespace disappeared with  the ability to travel within the Z axis.

At least flying mounts aren't "remote controlled" in the sense that dungeon finders are. Dungeon finders make the entire landscape obsolete apart from questing or obtaining "explorer" achievements. The sense of community is completely diminished by the Dungeon Finder.

Maybe this is the best illustration of why developers shouldn't listen to the community every time, all of the time.

The best gear rewards and xp have always been in dungeons in WoW, but if they are strongly promoting the dungeon finder, perhaps they think the dungeons are the best part of the game. Personally, I think some of the vanilla WoW dungeons are amazing. I wish more games would go back to the dungeons that take more than one trip to see everything rather than these 20 to 40 minute excursions they are all making now. A nice mix of both would be good.

Originally posted by iamflymolo

The best gear rewards and xp have always been in dungeons in WoW, but if they are strongly promoting the dungeon finder, perhaps they think the dungeons are the best part of the game. Personally, I think some of the vanilla WoW dungeons are amazing. I wish more games would go back to the dungeons that take more than one trip to see everything rather than these 20 to 40 minute excursions they are all making now. A nice mix of both would be good.

So much this.

Who remembers their first time in the Deadmines? Or Dire Maul? Who remembers the journey to get to the instance portal of Deadmines? Or the journey through Feralas to DM? The landscapes told a story.

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Hub game like swtor,people still need x-server lfg tool?they cant find each other even when they are all standing at the same room??

 give them LFG tool and fast and keep those peeps away from other games.

 

Wrong, it's not the people it's the game design. It's designed to have access to all instances via the space dock hub area, but you are expected to level at the same time out there in the world, so people who would like to go to instances are scattered around the planets besides the space dock with only means of communicating by random whispers or planet jumping to see if there's interested people enough to join your group.

You could easily spend more time finding a group than what it takes to complete the instance. That's just stupid and bad game design. I would be fine with a global looking for group channel, but if they are going to introduce a LFG-tool all the same, I just want to do a simple instance without having to work my ass off to reach all the participants who are scattered around 3 planets + space dock + a couple of story instances.

If you think I'm "standing in the same room" all day long instead of leveling/gathering/etc out there in the planets, then your just badly misinformed. The real problem often is the game has no tools of connecting the scattered people who want to group up.

Originally posted by ProfRed

Almost every design choice Blizz has made as the game has evolved has catered more and more to solo oriented players, and has made any sense of community almost non existant. 

Still don't blame them.  Blame the players who buy into this crap.  I could never be held by WoW longer than a month, but somehow millions and millions are. 

How is LFD solo-ing when you are playing with 4 OTHER PEOPLE?

Well, because it is fun. And blame other people having fun is just stupid. Not everyone wants a community. May be players just want to have some quick fun with a random group.

Originally posted by iamflymolo

The best gear rewards and xp have always been in dungeons in WoW, but if they are strongly promoting the dungeon finder, perhaps they think the dungeons are the best part of the game. Personally, I think some of the vanilla WoW dungeons are amazing. I wish more games would go back to the dungeons that take more than one trip to see everything rather than these 20 to 40 minute excursions they are all making now. A nice mix of both would be good.

And they would be right. Dungeons are the best part of the game. 10x more interesting and fun than solo-questing.

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

Originally posted by iamflymolo

The best gear rewards and xp have always been in dungeons in WoW, but if they are strongly promoting the dungeon finder, perhaps they think the dungeons are the best part of the game. Personally, I think some of the vanilla WoW dungeons are amazing. I wish more games would go back to the dungeons that take more than one trip to see everything rather than these 20 to 40 minute excursions they are all making now. A nice mix of both would be good.

 

So much this.

 

Who remembers their first time in the Deadmines? Or Dire Maul? Who remembers the journey to get to the instance portal of Deadmines? Or the journey through Feralas to DM? The landscapes told a story.

You know what's funny? There were so many dungeons in vanilla WoW that took my breath away. There were tons of amazing zones in the original game - Teldrassil, Ashenvale, Feralas, Un Goro, Burning Steppes were all great. It was amazing how varied the different environments were.

It's not that I didn't like any of the later zones but they were lacking that feel to them. Outland was especially bad. I hated the whole theme. Wotlk was much better and I loved the Howling Fjord :) but it was still not as varied or epic as vanilla. Then Cata was on the same level as Wotlk. But there was too many immersion breakers in the game already. 

Everything is about your state of mind. When I started vanilla WoW I thought of the game as this massive world (I think it was the largest one among MMOs at the time) with tons of possibilities to explore. I remember trying to get into hyjal spending the whole night just running like crazy in Winterspring getting pawned by elites. What gave me excitement was the desire to explore these zones/dungeons and raids. Cata zones would've given me the same feeling of epicness but I already perceived the game as a lobby game which completely ignores world content and focuses on instances and raids.

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Hub game like swtor,people still need x-server lfg tool?they cant find each other even when they are all standing at the same room??

 give them LFG tool and fast and keep those peeps away from other games.

 

 

Wrong, it's not the people it's the game design. It's designed to have access to all instances via the space dock hub area, but you are expected to level at the same time out there in the world, so people who would like to go to instances are scattered around the planets besides the space dock with only means of communicating by random whispers or planet jumping to see if there's interested people enough to join your group.

 

You could easily spend more time finding a group than what it takes to complete the instance. That's just stupid and bad game design. I would be fine with a global looking for group channel, but if they are going to introduce a LFG-tool all the same, I just want to do a simple instance without having to work my ass off to reach all the participants who are scattered around 3 planets + space dock + a couple of story instances.

 

If you think I'm "standing in the same room" all day long instead of leveling/gathering/etc out there in the planets, then your just badly misinformed. The real problem often is the game has no tools of connecting the scattered people who want to group up.

Ok,you are still leveling / gathering. so i understand.

And people say that they enjoy stories so much in this product,it is the best part of this game,now,everybody there is following their stories and then comes an instance ,what happens next? people goes to another place and starts another story and hopes that magically they get teleported to instance.

No, its not game designs fault in any way,it is its players fault.If everybody follows those stories then there would be enough peeps to complete those instances all the time,of course server merges needs to be done and fast.

but

i can tell what happened in WoW ,when you didnt need to gather/level whatever anymore,peeps started so stand in the same room and scream.

Originally posted by fivoroth

t I already perceived the game as a lobby game which completely ignores world content and focuses on instances and raids.

I think they may be bringing back some world content in the scenarios .. a new feature in the expansion. However, details are skimpy now.

Because the player base is mainly casuals now, as the content can be cleared by complete retards from random servers. 

Originally posted by delete5230

How can you argue this ?.....It's not the players choosing this direction, it's absolutely clear Blizzard set up the structure to encourage it.

- All good gear when leveling is given in dungeons.

-All exp and leveling is given in dungeons and open world,  BUT much more in dungeons

- They changed around the open world enough to make it different for returning players. Yet Blizzard encourages dungeons.

 

WHY

Here's my thoughts:  Realm population doesn't matter when the majority of gameplay is cross-server.  Even on a dead realm, it's easy to get dungeon groups.

Low population servers are normally the kiss of death for MMOs because people don't want to play a dead game.  Blizzard has side-stepped this issue with dungeon and raid finder.  The overland may be empty (it certainly is on one I play on) but dungeon groups are easy to get.