Trending Games | ArcheAge | Swordsman | World of Warcraft | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,736,738 Users Online:0
Games:714  Posts:6,175,441
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Can we really call it a "levelless" system?

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
42 posts found
  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2007

 
OP  3/05/12 6:58:19 PM#1

The more information released about this game the less enthusiatic about the game I get.  I'm not going to go into a rant about it here, but from my understanding the skill system works as follows.  I could be completely mistaken as the information on this is limited and fairly obscure.

You gain experience just like in normal MMO for killing creatures, completing missions, and possibly other sources.  You have an experience bar just like in other MMOs.  When it fills out you gain 3 Ability Points and 1 Skill Point.

You have ability tree paths which unlock various abilities from chakras and weapon skills.  If I'm not mistaken in the ability tree some abilities cannot be unlocked until you've unlocked previous tiers in the tree.  Abilities start costing more and more points to unlock the further down the tree (or wheel as it called) the ability is, costing upwards of 30 points for the more powerful abilities.  There are 588 abilities in all.  While the options here are quite flexible, I don't personally find it much different than the classic level systeming in other MMOs where you invest in talent trees and unlock abilities as you level up.  Can we really call this a levelless system?  Obvious there will be a point where I maxed out and reset the experience bar (trying not to call it leveling up here) and gained enough ability points to fully unlock a role, thus maxing out my potential in that role.  This is the same as hitting max level in a MMO!

Skill Points enhance your efficiency with certain weapons or chakras.  There is a limit to how far you can advance each weapon/chakra (I think I heard a seemingly random number like 55), but essentially aren't these just like leveling up in other MMOs?  There will be an obvious difference between a player with 5 points in Assault Rifles and a player with 55.  Isn't this just another form of vertical progression?  Again, you hit a point where you maxed out a particular role and are now able to play that role with the most efficiency compared to someone who just started putting points into that role.

I don't mind that they have vertical progression in the form of gear, but it looks like the skill system also has vertical progression.  Though there is a point where you will be able to cap in that progression (just like in other MMOs) on any path of the trees, but isn't that system just like FF MMOs where you can level each job individually?  Maybe the key difference here is you can work on progression in any role from any role without having to be in the role you are working on progression on, but still why call it levelless when the system clearly has defined vertical progression through a point system?

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  User Deleted
3/05/12 7:25:19 PM#2

I guess I'm a little lost on your concern on what you can really call the system.   I might decide to call it something totally different so I like to leave out the "we" part.

 

SWG in effect used much the same system you are describing...  Tho obviously the experience wasn't global.   So if I wanted to train in medical skills... I couldn't simply farm experience from combat to advance.   I have no clue how the current systems in TSW work and if I did.. I guess I'd be under NDA.   Anyway... if what you describe is accurate it sounds similar to SWG except that its a global system.   So you gain experience (just like in SWG) and then (unlike SWG) when you fill a bar you can spend points where you want.   Since experience isn't specific to ability used from your description.

 

Ultima Online used a specific advancement system like SWG did.   Meaning if I used a sword in combat I had a chance for some form of percentage increase in swords.   If I was fishing.. I could gain fishing.

 

Beyond that the only difference that "experience" brings to the picture is guaranteed advancement.   If I find a consistent source of experience it is a guarantee that everytime I fill the bar up I get points to spend (by your TSW example).   Where in Ultima Online I might be at 99.9 taming... and spend a 72 hour marathon running around ice island taming winter wolves... and not gain the last .1 to hit 100.0 taming... aka the no guarantee advancement system.

 

In SWG and UO... having more skill (or skill boxes trained) in a specific weapon for example... made you better to some degree with that weapon.   Just like your example from TSW...

 

So pretty much by your post... there has never been a level free MMO made... because your specific examples from TSW.. apply to every game that has claimed to be level free...

 

I guess the way I look at it is like this...

 

Level based game:   I start when the game goes live and I gain a bunch of levels.   A month later my buddy decides to buy the game and wants me to play with him.   So now I either have to make an alt or I give him some gear and say "you are on your own dude."   Which is what lead to mentor type systems... 

 

Non level based:   Same scenario... I simply group with my buddy from the day he joins.   He can gain skill/xp and I don't have to mess around with mentoring etc

 

This is me glossing over a lot of stuff to try and cut down the wall of text...  there are many points that could be debated.

 

To me the concerns you express... as I said... would apply to MMO's that have been in the market since at least 1997... and were always considered "non level based" or as UO was generally called... skill based.

 

Levels to me .. always segregated players and make early parts of the game world useless later.  In UO.. you could simply play with anyone.. anywhere... and even "newb areas" could be useful at any time... for various reasons.  

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2007

 
OP  3/05/12 7:45:10 PM#3

But UO and SWG don't claim to be a levelless system (I'm aware of how those systems work, so you don't have to explain).  They have skill based leveling through skill usage.  TSW claims to not have a level system and have no vertical progression except through gear, which turns out not to be the case at all.  TSW is also neither skill based or traditional "themepark" level based and instead a bit of a mix between the two.

Can we call FFXI a non-level based game because you could switch to a job you haven't leveled to play with your friend?  What happens when I max out everything in TSW and have all weapon skills leveled and want to play with a friend just starting out?  Am I going to have to go to the newbie area and one shot everything or carry him/her through a higher "level" area where my friend isn't contributing a damn thing due to not having enough weapon skill unlocked?   Neither sound particularly fun for either party.  I think I would rather have the classic level system with mentoring.

For all we know you might not even gain experience if you go back to a newbie area and kill stuff after you acquire a certain amount of skill points or whatever.  They didn't really explain this system.  It could also have a curve where skill points later on will take so long and the experience from newbie areas is so small that you are always better off trying harder content worth more experience.  Maybe I'm being a bit of a doomsayer here.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

3/05/12 7:46:44 PM#4
Originally posted by Magnum2103

But UO and SWG don't claim to be a levelless system (I'm aware of how those systems work, so you don't have to explain).  They have skill based leveling through skill usage.  TSW claims to not have a level system and have no vertical progression except through gear, which turns out not to be the case at all.  TSW is also neither skill based or traditional "themepark" level based and instead a bit of a mix between the two.

It's Funcom, they use half truths, bend sentences, and sensationalize their features.

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

3/05/12 7:50:12 PM#5

Fact of the matter is, the game has experience points.

Any game with experience points = levels.

Even so-called "sandbox" games with "no levels" have levels.

"Hey, I'm getting better with my long sword skill, it's at 34/100".

Then you are level 34 out of 100 using a long sword.

The only true way to have a game with absolutely no levels or leveling is to have everyone completely the same when naked no matter how long they play.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  Siris23

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/13/09
Posts: 186

3/05/12 7:51:15 PM#6
Originally posted by Magnum2103

Skill Points enhance your efficiency with certain weapons or chakras.  There is a limit to how far you can advance each weapon/chakra (I think I heard a seemingly random number like 55), but essentially aren't these just like leveling up in other MMOs?  There will be an obvious difference between a player with 5 points in Assault Rifles and a player with 55.  Isn't this just another form of vertical progression?  Again, you hit a point where you maxed out a particular role and are now able to play that role with the most efficiency compared to someone who just started putting points into that role.

I don't mind that they have vertical progression in the form of gear, but it looks like the skill system also has vertical progression.  Though there is a point where you will be able to cap in that progression (just like in other MMOs) on any path of the trees, but isn't that system just like FF MMOs where you can level each job individually?  Maybe the key difference here is you can work on progression in any role from any role without having to be in the role you are working on progression on, but still why call it levelless when the system clearly has defined vertical progression through a point system?

 You don't quite have skill points right.

Each skill has 10 ranks, each rank costing progressivly more (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10=55pts.)

The only thing a higher skill rank gets you is the ability to use more powerful gear. Per your example someone who spends 6 points (5 wouldn't get you a whole rank) in assault rifles would only be able to use rank 3 assault rifles while someone who spent 55 points would be able to use rank 10 assault rifles.

So gear is still the vertical progression and skill points are the gating mechanic to keep day one characters from using the best gear right away.    

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2007

 
OP  3/05/12 7:54:33 PM#7
Originally posted by Siris23

 You don't quite have skill points right.

Each skill has 10 ranks, each rank costing progressivly more (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10=55pts.)

The only thing a higher skill rank gets you is the ability to use more powerful gear. Per your example someone who spends 6 points (5 wouldn't get you a whole rank) in assault rifles would only be able to use rank 3 assault riles while someone who spent 55 points would be able to use rank 10 assault rifles.

So gear is still the vertical progression and skill points are the gating mechanic to keep day one characters from using the best gear right away.    

Ahh, good.  That's a much better system if it's how you described it.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Isawa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

3/05/12 8:04:20 PM#8
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Siris23

 You don't quite have skill points right.

Each skill has 10 ranks, each rank costing progressivly more (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10=55pts.)

The only thing a higher skill rank gets you is the ability to use more powerful gear. Per your example someone who spends 6 points (5 wouldn't get you a whole rank) in assault rifles would only be able to use rank 3 assault riles while someone who spent 55 points would be able to use rank 10 assault rifles.

So gear is still the vertical progression and skill points are the gating mechanic to keep day one characters from using the best gear right away.    

Ahh, good.  That's a much better system if it's how you described it.

I learned something here (if it is true), interesting :)

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3705

RIP City of Heroes!

3/05/12 8:28:05 PM#9
Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Fact of the matter is, the game has experience points.

Any game with experience points = levels.

Even so-called "sandbox" games with "no levels" have levels.

"Hey, I'm getting better with my long sword skill, it's at 34/100".

Then you are level 34 out of 100 using a long sword.

The only true way to have a game with absolutely no levels or leveling is to have everyone completely the same when naked no matter how long they play.

You are 100% correct, but some people mean character levels when they talk about levels and don't think about skill levels.

  User Deleted
3/05/12 8:33:03 PM#10

You can call it whatever you want. Its better than having an arbitrary number next to your avatar.

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

3/05/12 10:14:14 PM#11
Originally posted by Magnum2103

But UO and SWG don't claim to be a levelless system (I'm aware of how those systems work, so you don't have to explain).  They have skill based leveling through skill usage.  TSW claims to not have a level system and have no vertical progression except through gear, which turns out not to be the case at all.  TSW is also neither skill based or traditional "themepark" level based and instead a bit of a mix between the two.

Can we call FFXI a non-level based game because you could switch to a job you haven't leveled to play with your friend?  What happens when I max out everything in TSW and have all weapon skills leveled and want to play with a friend just starting out?  Am I going to have to go to the newbie area and one shot everything or carry him/her through a higher "level" area where my friend isn't contributing a damn thing due to not having enough weapon skill unlocked?   Neither sound particularly fun for either party.  I think I would rather have the classic level system with mentoring.

For all we know you might not even gain experience if you go back to a newbie area and kill stuff after you acquire a certain amount of skill points or whatever.  They didn't really explain this system.  It could also have a curve where skill points later on will take so long and the experience from newbie areas is so small that you are always better off trying harder content worth more experience.  Maybe I'm being a bit of a doomsayer here.

Of course, FFXI solved that problem with Level Sync, and many other games have with mentor/sidekick systems. (Level sync sync'd everyone in the group to the sync target, but only if they were lower. A 37 could be sync'd to a 35, but a 33 remained 33.).

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  Disastorm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 318

3/05/12 11:46:54 PM#12

The Main difference in vertical and horizontal progression is that in horizontal progression, you max out faster at least in terms of having 7 active skills and 7 passive skills.  However, by obtaining more skills on the overall tree you can make your combination/build stronger, but its stronger due to combinations of skills, not due to raw strength.  Vertical progression is basically raw strength. In traditional mmos, this is character levels, but in TSW, it comes from the weapon/equips.

  User Deleted
3/05/12 11:56:40 PM#13
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Siris23

So gear is still the vertical progression and skill points are the gating mechanic to keep day one characters from using the best gear right away.    

Ahh, good.  That's a much better system if it's how you described it.

not to me because it's still a gear dependant race at the end. Isn't that what these innovations are trying to get away from? Gear treadmilling and leveling? I understand it's a work in prograss however TSW Devs originally stated there would be no GTM in their game and here we are almost at the end of developement and they do indeed have one. It's disappointing to me. It might not be like other games however giving the gear ranks so that high ranks can do more damage or be capable of higher stats is still the same to me as having fixed stats with enchanting/gemming, the community end game will demand you have certain sets of gear in order to do anything worth while.

  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

3/06/12 12:04:17 AM#14
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Siris23

So gear is still the vertical progression and skill points are the gating mechanic to keep day one characters from using the best gear right away.    

Ahh, good.  That's a much better system if it's how you described it.

not to me because it's still a gear dependant race at the end. Isn't that what these innovations are trying to get away from? Gear treadmilling and leveling? I understand it's a work in prograss however TSW Devs originally stated there would be no GTM in their game and here we are almost at the end of developement and they do indeed have one. It's disappointing to me. It might not be like other games however giving the gear ranks so that high ranks can do more damage or be capable of higher stats is still the same to me as having fixed stats with enchanting/gemming, the community end game will demand you have certain sets of gear in order to do anything worth while.

It matters what it takes to get the gear. If you have access to lev 5 rifles and can easily purchase (in game currency) or run a quest for it (not grind same quest mob 20 times to drop it), it shouldn't be the same as a gear grind system. Whats makes gear grinding so bad is the low drop rates, and time it takes to raid for it. And you usually need many items, so spend insane amount of time just getting items to do next level of raids. If TSW makes getting the weapons fun or not so grindy/time consuming, then it should just be about how fun the content and combat is.

  Vampires

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/06
Posts: 75

3/06/12 12:10:59 AM#15

From the video's and interview's i've read, they said that your XP (for lack of better word) gain is the same no matter what or how much time you have spent in the world.. Tho you may need more skill points to get  the better skills, you will still only need the same amount of points to get the ones you are not skilled in.

  noturpal

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 130

3/06/12 3:54:37 PM#16
Originally posted by Magnum2103

The more information released about this game the less enthusiatic about the game I get.  I'm not going to go into a rant about it here, but from my understanding the skill system works as follows.  I could be completely mistaken as the information on this is limited and fairly obscure.

You gain experience just like in normal MMO for killing creatures, completing missions, and possibly other sources.  You have an experience bar just like in other MMOs.  When it fills out you gain 3 Ability Points and 1 Skill Point.

You have ability tree paths which unlock various abilities from chakras and weapon skills.  If I'm not mistaken in the ability tree some abilities cannot be unlocked until you've unlocked previous tiers in the tree.  Abilities start costing more and more points to unlock the further down the tree (or wheel as it called) the ability is, costing upwards of 30 points for the more powerful abilities.  There are 588 abilities in all.  While the options here are quite flexible, I don't personally find it much different than the classic level systeming in other MMOs where you invest in talent trees and unlock abilities as you level up.  Can we really call this a levelless system?  Obvious there will be a point where I maxed out and reset the experience bar (trying not to call it leveling up here) and gained enough ability points to fully unlock a role, thus maxing out my potential in that role.  This is the same as hitting max level in a MMO!

Skill Points enhance your efficiency with certain weapons or chakras.  There is a limit to how far you can advance each weapon/chakra (I think I heard a seemingly random number like 55), but essentially aren't these just like leveling up in other MMOs?  There will be an obvious difference between a player with 5 points in Assault Rifles and a player with 55.  Isn't this just another form of vertical progression?  Again, you hit a point where you maxed out a particular role and are now able to play that role with the most efficiency compared to someone who just started putting points into that role.

I don't mind that they have vertical progression in the form of gear, but it looks like the skill system also has vertical progression.  Though there is a point where you will be able to cap in that progression (just like in other MMOs) on any path of the trees, but isn't that system just like FF MMOs where you can level each job individually?  Maybe the key difference here is you can work on progression in any role from any role without having to be in the role you are working on progression on, but still why call it levelless when the system clearly has defined vertical progression through a point system?

evryone new to mmogs say it with me "Leveling if a form of progression, but not all prgression is leveling"  This is why we used different word for different thing.  For example, a baseball not a golfball.

 

here

  Azrile

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

3/12/12 4:09:54 PM#17
Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Fact of the matter is, the game has experience points.

Any game with experience points = levels.

Even so-called "sandbox" games with "no levels" have levels.

"Hey, I'm getting better with my long sword skill, it's at 34/100".

Then you are level 34 out of 100 using a long sword.

The only true way to have a game with absolutely no levels or leveling is to have everyone completely the same when naked no matter how long they play.

 

  rpgalon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/11
Posts: 432

3/12/12 4:38:41 PM#18
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Siris23

So gear is still the vertical progression and skill points are the gating mechanic to keep day one characters from using the best gear right away.    

Ahh, good.  That's a much better system if it's how you described it.

not to me because it's still a gear dependant race at the end. Isn't that what these innovations are trying to get away from? Gear treadmilling and leveling? I understand it's a work in prograss however TSW Devs originally stated there would be no GTM in their game and here we are almost at the end of developement and they do indeed have one. It's disappointing to me. It might not be like other games however giving the gear ranks so that high ranks can do more damage or be capable of higher stats is still the same to me as having fixed stats with enchanting/gemming, the community end game will demand you have certain sets of gear in order to do anything worth while.

TSW is going to be a "gear treadmilling", not a level grinding type of game... a dev said that by the time you get the abilities points necessary to unlock all the abilities of a weapon, you would have already enough skill points to be at rank 10 on 3.5 different weapon. it's a system to make low level people unable to use end game gear.

 

and even the "gear treadmilling" is not going to be the same:

in most MMO end game gear = stronger gear. 

in TSW the low level gear gives some standard bonus like + health or damage or healling, but as you advance in the game, gear starts becoming more and more specialized, like +15% chance of penetrating hit when the opponent is in hindered state.

TSW gear is going to be formed by 3 parts prefix + core + suffix.

it's all about making your character really good in what you want it to do

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

3/12/12 4:48:40 PM#19
Originally posted by rpgalon
 

TSW is going to be a "gear treadmilling", not a level grinding type of game... a dev said that by the time you get the abilities point to unlock all the abilities of a weapon, you would have already enough skill points to be at rank 10 on 3.5 different weapon. it's a systen to make low level people unable to use end game gear.

and even the "gear treadmilling" is not going to be the same:

in most MMO end game gear = stronger gear. 

in TSW the low level gear gives some standard bonus like + health or damage or healling, but as you advance in the game, gear starts becomming more and more specialized, like +15% chance of penetrating hit when the opponent is hindered.

TSW gear is going to be formed by 3 parts prefix + core + suffix.

it's all about making your character really good in what you want it to do

MMOs have had such systems for a long time, it's called leveling.

Aaaand, as has been pointed out before, you earn points from killing monsters to unlock skills. Like it or not--brand it however they want--that's Experience Points.

This thread, like so many others, shows how poorly Funcom has done about the press for this game. That's not a jab at you. I'm saying that the bits and pieces we know about the game are hard to farm into anything but a vague idea. This site promises to post much more information about the game this week. We might all understand a lot more about the game than the tidbits each of us have picked up in this video or that thread.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  Ezhae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 734

3/12/12 4:52:52 PM#20

Simple question. Do You consider EVE Online level-less game? 

The only difference is in EVE You earn skill points over time, while in TSW You earn them by doing missions/combat. 

Was UO level-less?

Again, You had skills You could grind up doing combat/crafting, the difference was you gained skillpoints for skills you actually used rather than added to pool of skillpoints you could distribute yourself. 

It's pretty much same concept, which offers the player more freedom in how to shape their character. In traditional level based game you are locked at just the skills your level allows you to use at given point. For eg. you get new skill at 4th, 8th, 12th level, it will always be exactly the same skill with every character within that class.

In system like TSW you can choose from the very beggining what you want to focus on first, how to progress your character, whenever you rush for maxing out single set or going for more diversity. 

 

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search