Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Celcius

If by failure you mean not making enough money to produce content, not too many big games have failed in that regard even since WoW came out. Off the top of my head the big "failures" could arguably be Warhammer and Vanguard, since they don't really produce content on a regular basis.

When you aim to be a WoW killer, and have to close servers within months of your release, that's a pretty big failure. If AoC isn't a failure I don't know what is. Being able to make content doesn't mean you're doing well. Rift is failing pretty badly too.

Is this guy serious? Rift is doing really well. It has produced more content patches in a year then most (all of them?) MMOs do in two.

Rift generated 100 million in 10 months, if you consider that a failure, well then your entire argument of what constitutes a failure is unjustified.

Originally posted by Loke666

There are several more games worth speculating about. AA do sounds interesting but we still have no clue if the game ever will have an english client or will be released in the west.Here are a few more you will hear a lot about in the near future:

World of darkkness online: CCP have many followers and so do White wolf. A sandbox horror game that actually might make a large impact on the genre.

Copernicus: 38 studios MMO. Kingdoms of Amalur that is the single player game to reveal the world and get in some money before the MMO have so far got massive attention. The game have already been in the making for years but they wont start showing it off until KoA have been in the spot for a while.

Class 4: Undead labs lead designer and CEO jeff Strain is behind hit games like Diablo, Warcraft 3, Guildwars 1 (and the first 3 years of GW2 development). he is also the guy who was Wows first lead designer and who got Blizzard into making mmos. A XBOX zombie MMO funded by Microsoft might sound somewhat odd to you, but Undead labs have one of the best MMO teams ever, we will hear a lot about this game soon. Just like 38 studios are they also making a single/multiplayer game called Class 3 first, you will hear a loty about it very soon.

Fallout online: Bethesda have finally won the rights for this game and we know they have been working for years on a secret MMO with one of the DaoC devs as lead designer. The game will come out, only question is when.

And don´t forget Blizzards Titan. 

To speculate which games that will fail badly and which to become hit games is really hard. I personally would give Titan my odds for biggest failure of all these games since Blizzard have so many fans and noone of the other games will hear so much "this ain´t Wow". But it can like any of these games become a huge sccess as well.

I don´t really think Tera and AA will make that huge impact on the general gaming community though, we know a lot about them and many people here will have strong opinions about them but if you ask a general gamer they will never even heard about them. MMORPG.COM fans are specialized in mmos and generally have a better knowledge about what MMOs that are in the making.

I only mentioned those four, because I'm thinking very short term.  Maybe some of these others will ramp up for launch suddenly, but I'm thinking they're aiming for 2013 at the earliest.. but once you start thinking beyond the next six months or so.. a lot of games enter the picture, and it becomes even more impossible to guess how they'll do, with so little solid info on them.  That's assuming they'll even make to launch, without getting canceled.

There are even some F2P games I'm curious about, like Firefall, Age of Wushu, or Otherland.. probably releasing this year, but just didn't feel they were relevant to discussing short-term hype and failure.

Originally posted by Vhaln

I only mentioned those four, because I'm thinking very short term.  Maybe some of these others will ramp up for launch suddenly, but I'm thinking they're aiming for 2013 at the earliest.. but once you start thinking beyond the next six months or so.. a lot of games enter the picture, and it becomes even more impossible to guess how they'll do, with so little solid info on them.  That's assuming they'll even make to launch, without getting canceled.

There are even some F2P games I'm curious about, like Firefall, Age of Wushu, or Otherland.. probably releasing this year, but just didn't feel they were relevant to discussing short-term hype and failure.

Then I think you really shouldn´t have mentioned Archeage. I doubt it even will release 2013 in the west. TERA already been in translation for over 1 1/2 year while AA doesn´t even have a publisher yet.

And yeah, F2P games should be mentioned as well. There are a whole bunch of then in the making including Everquest Next but for some reason have I a hard time myself to be hyped up for any of them before release.

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Celcius

If by failure you mean not making enough money to produce content, not too many big games have failed in that regard even since WoW came out. Off the top of my head the big "failures" could arguably be Warhammer and Vanguard, since they don't really produce content on a regular basis.

When you aim to be a WoW killer, and have to close servers within months of your release, that's a pretty big failure. If AoC isn't a failure I don't know what is. Being able to make content doesn't mean you're doing well. Rift is failing pretty badly too.

Is this guy serious? Rift is doing really well. It has produced more content patches in a year then most (all of them?) MMOs do in two.

Rift generated 100 million in 10 months, if you consider that a failure, well then your entire argument of what constitutes a failure is unjustified.

 Eh, thinking anything post WoW, the measure of success is a tad....quite a bit high. 300k or so subs? Failure apprently.

As for answering your question TC....maybe Archage. Sandbox games like ShadowBane and SWG are one of the few mmos to have actually closed down and are gone. I think theres EverQuest Online Adventures on the themepark side shutting down soon, probably several other smaller ones. Now before the Sandbox players trace my IP and murder me, or at least reply in meanly typed messages, you never know maybe it will strike it big. Just those two cases and the only Sandbox mmos I can think have are also two of the few mmos I can think of to actually shut down.

As for the other games coming out, TERA, GW2, TSW, and heck maybe Archage despite what I wrote, I think will at worst get their one niche populations. By several peoples standards the game will be a failure, but then to be a success seems to require a 12m+ population.

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by Garvon3 

When you aim to be a WoW killer, and have to close servers within months of your release, that's a pretty big failure. If AoC isn't a failure I don't know what is. Being able to make content doesn't mean you're doing well. Rift is failing pretty badly too.

Is this guy serious? Rift is doing really well. It has produced more content patches in a year then most (all of them?) MMOs do in two.

Rift generated 100 million in 10 months, if you consider that a failure, well then your entire argument of what constitutes a failure is unjustified.

Yeah, calling Rift a failure is not fair, it already got in twice the money it cost to make. 

But it is a matter of perspective, some people here thought it would be the next Wow and compared to that almost all games will be failures.

Even if Rift closed down tomorrow it still would have generated a lot more money than Trion out into it and that makes it far from a failure in my book.

Every game to be released until people stop calling everything a failure by trolling and beating them into the ground relentlessly for no real reason whatsoever, other than to try and make them fail because it seems as though people much prefer to waste their money, rather than enjoy the games that come out for what they are, realistically, and living with it. I seriously think that these MMO communities get more entertainment by make believing a games failure, than they do from actually playing the games. It's pretty pathetic, really.

SW:TOR as of tonight has a very high population on all it's servers, in all the regional tabs. It's not a failure, get over it people.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

The Secret World.

Why?

1. Funcom

2. Box Fee+Sub Fee+Cash Shop? Really? How is this game so worthy?

3. FunCom

and did I mention that it's from Funcom?

When haven't you mention your dislike for them? That's the real question.

wow was the facebook of mmos.

it predated facebook also.

it won't happen again.

end of story.

I'll assume "failure" means:

Not be able to meet hype / expectations, and won't hold a large player base. Even though they may sell well at release.

My candidates:

Pretty sure TERA won't live up to the hype, and neither will GW2, though both may start off good. GW2 will not be a complete disaster, and will do better than TERA in the long run, I don't doubt it. Btw, I'm only considering the western version of TERA.

TSW will never be a huge success, and won't set any sales records. Neither will Archeage.

Originally posted by Loke666

Then I think you really shouldn´t have mentioned Archeage. I doubt it even will release 2013 in the west. TERA already been in translation for over 1 1/2 year while AA doesn´t even have a publisher yet.

I'm just not sure.  Maybe it's overly optimistic, but I get the impression it may release sooner, here.  Might be huge differences, compared to what was involved in "westernizing" Tera, I think they'll get a publisher easily, when they're ready, and I have a better feeling about XLGames than I do about Bluehole.. but that said, I also know you may be right.

We all need to change what our definition of failure is.

If one game can keep a profit and keep running i would hardly consider it a failure.

Too many people think that all games that are either sub 10mil customers or dont personally intrest them (they didnt like it) are failures. 

I think a lot of it has to do with our narcissistic society.  Far too many people think if they dont like something, their opinion is above all others and it is their job to make people see the light.  So when someone doesnt like a game, they feel its their duty to sway people, since those who see diffrently are incorrect.

This said, theres nothing wrong with stating you dont like a game and why, but anyone whos been ont he internet longer than a week know it rarely stops at that.  It usually becomes some kind of holy war against the game.

Ive played and enjoyed a lot of "hated" games.  A lot of those games where predicted to shut down by individual posters since...if they stop playing the world will and the game wil get shut down and the developers will be dragged out into the street and executed publicly...well at least some of the venom towards developers over diffrent visions and abilities seems to suggest that frame of mind.

Regardless, when you stop thinking about what a game isnt, and just play it for entertainment, for what the game is, you start to enjoy your time more.  For me games are pure entertainment, my TV sitcom/reality tv substitute.  I play for entertainment not to win or to dominate or to win a race to endame.  I tend to enjoy games, even if they are far from what i want.  When i no longer enjoy a game, i move on.  I dont see the time as wasted because nothing is a greater waste of time than watching a sitcome with a laugh track or watching people argue on rality tv.

TLDR? : GW2

I consider WoW to be the biggest failure because it failed to get 10 billion subscribers and  make a bajillion dollars.

I also warned everyone that it was very "WoW" like, but they wouldn't listen!!

Fools!

Originally posted by Crunchy221

We all need to change what our definition of failure is.

If one game can keep a profit and keep running i would hardly consider it a failure.

If my goal is to get several million steady subscribers, and I end up with 50k, I have failed.

/thread.

Hell there are some you can't even NOT call a failure. WAR effectively ended Mythic as a company. AoC made most of Funcom's partners go bankrupt and they were bogged down by lawsuits for a long time.

Heh , Tera will be a failure and the more I look at ArcheAge and it's features the more I'm leaning to say that GW2 will be a failure.   It's a good thing GW1 has a HUGE fan base , because without it , GW2 wouldn't go anywhere and probably the only thing which will make GW2 a good success at launch.

 What we need is a good Dev team to make a MMO that uses Atlantica's Online battle system aka FF battle system , but without the heavy need of a cash shop to advance pass level 100 and actually do decent damage pass level 100.

 In the fantasy genre , besides ArcheAge , GW2 , (D3 & TL2 , they seem to be counted as MMO but I dunno , I know both will be major success) everything else will fail (In the fantasy genre).  Why play Tera when you already got Rift and ArcheAge with tons of features that is on it's way?   GW2 is worth a shot if you never played GW1 , it's a unique MMO experience that you won't find in any other MMO.  ArcheAge might look like alot of other MMOs , but it's bombarded with features fit to be called a dream MMO.

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Crunchy221

We all need to change what our definition of failure is.

If one game can keep a profit and keep running i would hardly consider it a failure.

If my goal is to get several million steady subscribers, and I end up with 50k, I have failed.

/thread.

 Has nothing to do with my post since you dont have a game or any subscribers. 

also they never state what their goal is, so theres never a frame of reference as to if they failed, at least by your understanding of it.

Some say AoC failed.  It sure had a terrible launch.  It some 1.4mil copies, was p2p for years, and is still running.  Funcom made enough money off of it to make a new game.  Was that a failure?

Some call darkfall a failure.  AV (the development company) was able to buy a new headquarters, a new motion capture or animation studio (forget which it was) and was able to completely remake the game...was that a failure?

Earthrise brought together bulgarias best, produced a game everyone wanted, did it in such a fashion that no one wanted to play, and shut down.  that WAS a failure.

i guess its all realtive.  My pizza failed today since the crust wasnt cooked as well as i like, typically i prefer a slightly crispy crust that some may call a bit over done.  I still paid for it, and ill go back again, the company is stil in business.  Is said pizza resturant a failure?

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Crunchy221

We all need to change what our definition of failure is.

If one game can keep a profit and keep running i would hardly consider it a failure.

If my goal is to get several million steady subscribers, and I end up with 50k, I have failed.

/thread.

 

Hell there are some you can't even NOT call a failure. WAR effectively ended Mythic as a company. AoC made most of Funcom's partners go bankrupt and they were bogged down by lawsuits for a long time.

yeah, i agree with crunchy the definition of failure has come down to wether or not the individual doesnt like the game.  you might be surprised garvon at what funcom is aiming for as far as subs after one year.

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Crunchy221

We all need to change what our definition of failure is.

If one game can keep a profit and keep running i would hardly consider it a failure.

If my goal is to get several million steady subscribers, and I end up with 50k, I have failed.

/thread.

 Has nothing to do with my post since you dont have a game or any subscribers. 

also they never state what their goal is, so theres never a frame of reference as to if they failed, at least by your understanding of it.

Some say AoC failed.  It sure had a terrible launch.  It some 1.4mil copies, was p2p for years, and is still running.  Funcom made enough money off of it to make a new game.  Was that a failure?

Some call darkfall a failure.  AV (the development company) was able to buy a new headquarters, a new motion capture or animation studio (forget which it was) and was able to completely remake the game...was that a failure?

Earthrise brought together bulgarias best, produced a game everyone wanted, did it in such a fashion that no one wanted to play, and shut down.  that WAS a failure.

i guess its all realtive.  My pizza failed today since the crust wasnt cooked as well as i like, typically i prefer a slightly crispy crust that some may call a bit over done.  I still paid for it, and ill go back again, the company is stil in business.  Is said pizza resturant a failure?

you are a failure, because you did not bring enough/any pizza for everyone... 

/end thread

...lol but i agree with you

Define failure

I think TERA wont do very well. Despite the combat features, It's still an asian grinder and from what I have seen is a bit shallow on character development and customization.

People talking about ArchAge, yes looks promising but dont expect that title anytime soon. Korean titles delay one year or more before hiting western market and its not even released in Korea yet.

I am sure GW2 will be a succes. Its doing a lot of new and interesting stuff and has no monthly fee. Everyone will at least try that one.

Originally posted by brody71

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Crunchy221

We all need to change what our definition of failure is.

If one game can keep a profit and keep running i would hardly consider it a failure.

If my goal is to get several million steady subscribers, and I end up with 50k, I have failed.

/thread.

 

Hell there are some you can't even NOT call a failure. WAR effectively ended Mythic as a company. AoC made most of Funcom's partners go bankrupt and they were bogged down by lawsuits for a long time.

yeah, i agree with crunchy the definition of failure has come down to wether or not the individual doesnt like the game.  you might be surprised garvon at what funcom is aiming for as far as subs after one year.

 To the guy who im in a forum fight with...i agree...WAR was a failure, despite its still running, and EA has feasted ont he gooey innards that were once mythic (damn zombies)

to the guy who im now fighting with on the forums: dont care what funcom says.  I like anarchy online...  I liked AoC with limited expectations and for a limited time of play (gets old fast).  If i like TSW i dont care.  If i dont like it...im not going to lose sleep theres other games out there.  So long as there is one server with enough peope on it for me to enjoy the game, i could care less if there is 1 or 60 servers just like mine, wont effect me and i hate cross server anything.

Who is garvon?  hes not the only guy in that company im interested in and he has a o with a slash through it in his name so i cant even type what his name is. the guy who was the brains behind anarchy.