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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » WTF has happened to the genre? Rants of a veteran mmorpg'er

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190 posts found
  Siris23

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/13/09
Posts: 188

3/01/12 11:10:49 AM#21

To quote Grandpa Simpson:

 "I used to be with 'it', but then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it', and what's 'it' seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too."

 

The genre has moved on and you haven't, sucks to be you.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13314

3/01/12 11:11:39 AM#22

So you go out of your way to cherry-pick WoW clones to play, and then you complain that they're WoW-clones?  If you want something different, then go play something different.  Try Uncharted Waters Online.  Try A Tale in the Desert.  Try Spiral Knights.  Try Puzzle Pirates.  Maybe you'll like them or maybe you won't, but if you don't, it won't be because they're WoW clones.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

3/01/12 11:11:45 AM#23
Originally posted by crysent

But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself.  YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?

 

WAR?  Empty.

EQ2? Empty

Rift?  Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough

TOR:  Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.

So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.

 

EQ2 is not a WoW clone.  WoW is an EQ2 clone.  EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW.  EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.  

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  crysent

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 843

 
OP  3/01/12 11:13:23 AM#24
Originally posted by Siris23

To quote Grandpa Simpson:

 "I used to be with 'it', but then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it', and what's 'it' seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too."

 

The genre has moved on and you haven't, sucks to be you.

Maybe.  Maybe it sucks to be me.  Or maybe it sucks to be one of the people endlessly enjoying games like WoW?  I dunno, maybe your right.  But if the genre moved on, why are there so many empty games and empty servers spread across all the AAA games to have released in the last 5 years or so?

 

If its me and not the games why am I sitting in a 2 hour warzone que on TOR?  Why is the EQ2 server I played on empty?  Why when I log into Lord of the Rings is there no one around?  Why when I logged into the rift free trial I had to transfer all my old chars off empty servers?

 

Just curious..

 

 

  nikoliath

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 1182

An MMO FAN

enjoying
SWTOR
GW2 pre-purchased

3/01/12 11:13:25 AM#25

oh lord, another sky is falling post. 

 

The industry grew up into a business.

  User Deleted
3/01/12 11:13:28 AM#26
Originally posted by crysent

 

So I guess I leave this with a few questions:  Why did the genre take this route? the route of safety, the route of WoW cloneing?  And more importantly, why do the gamers continue to support this?  (I'm as guilty as anyone)...

 

You know how we got here.

 

EQ did better than UO.   After EQ... most games were more like EQ.. than UO.

 

WoW did better than EQ... and now most games are more like WoW.

 

Why do gamers support this?   Well the global market is much larger than it was in 1997 when I started.   Did you ever stop to think maybe the vast majority of those millions of people... actually like WoW and games like it?

 

Did you ever think that gamers like us are in fact a minority?   That if we took our money and went home the industry wouldn't even notice?

 

If the gamers supporting it... like it... that's not bad.   Its not like they have some duty to only support games we would like..

 

I'd love a modern day UO... I have ideas of what I'd like that game to be.   I don't know that I will ever see that game.. but I think about it often enough.

  crysent

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 843

 
OP  3/01/12 11:14:01 AM#27
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by crysent

But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself.  YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?

 

WAR?  Empty.

EQ2? Empty

Rift?  Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough

TOR:  Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.

So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.

 

EQ2 is not a WoW clone.  WoW is an EQ2 clone.  EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW.  EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.  

Yes, well, it doesn't really matter to the overall point.  EQ2 and WoW are very similar.  Minor differences, but very similar.  

  crysent

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 843

 
OP  3/01/12 11:14:55 AM#28
Originally posted by nikoliath

oh lord, another sky is falling post. 

 

The industry grew up into a business.

But if I look at the games in your signiture, I see many, many games that are closed or completely dead.  Many built by studios that are also dead.  So if it grew into a business its a bad business model.  Nobody said the sky is falling.  If you enjoy the genre more power to you.

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

3/01/12 11:15:15 AM#29
Originally posted by Zekiah

Once gamers stop paying for garbage they'll stop feeding it to us.

Exactly. The devs are still producing these crap games because desperate gamers like us "hope" that the next one will be different, even when the devs themselves plainly state that this is not going to be the case.

Imo, anyone who paid money to EA for that turd shares the blame for the crappy state this genre is in.

  dbstylin34

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/10
Posts: 278

3/01/12 11:15:30 AM#30

Im so sick of these "glory days" vet gamer rants..

  nikoliath

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 1182

An MMO FAN

enjoying
SWTOR
GW2 pre-purchased

3/01/12 11:15:31 AM#31
Originally posted by crysent
Originally posted by Siris23

To quote Grandpa Simpson:

 "I used to be with 'it', but then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it', and what's 'it' seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too."

 

The genre has moved on and you haven't, sucks to be you.

Maybe.  Maybe it sucks to be me.  Or maybe it sucks to be one of the people endlessly enjoying games like WoW?  I dunno, maybe your right.  But if the genre moved on, why are there so many empty games and empty servers spread across all the AAA games to have released in the last 5 years or so?

 

If its me and not the games why am I sitting in a 2 hour warzone que on TOR?  Why is the EQ2 server I played on empty?  Why when I log into Lord of the Rings is there no one around?  Why when I logged into the rift free trial I had to transfer all my old chars off empty servers?

 

Just curious..

 

 

because supply outstrips demand. 

  Puremallace

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

3/01/12 11:15:56 AM#32
Originally posted by Quizzical

So you go out of your way to cherry-pick WoW clones to play, and then you complain that they're WoW-clones?  If you want something different, then go play something different.  Try Uncharted Waters Online.  Try A Tale in the Desert.  Try Spiral Knights.  Try Puzzle Pirates.  Maybe you'll like them or maybe you won't, but if you don't, it won't be because they're WoW clones.

This right here. It sounds like a buyers remorse thread. He completely derailed his own arguement by saying he bought TOR, then sounded like he was surpised it was a themepark.

  Newnan

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/08
Posts: 80

3/01/12 11:16:39 AM#33
Gaming is like life. Why make something harder more challenging and progressing to society, when you could make something with a lot less work, half the effort, and just making something user friendly would bring in more dollars. Not only do they “dumb it down” but they also copy ideas from other games. The perfect example could be related to the Iphone, why make a super powerful device that could be only afforded by the rich when you could mass produce some crappy product that the masses will like since is so “User Friendly” raking in billions.
 
It comes down to in life people rather cheat and take the easy “safe” road then make something innovating and progressing, since that takes real work. 

Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.

  crysent

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 843

 
OP  3/01/12 11:17:44 AM#34
Originally posted by Puremallace
Originally posted by Quizzical

So you go out of your way to cherry-pick WoW clones to play, and then you complain that they're WoW-clones?  If you want something different, then go play something different.  Try Uncharted Waters Online.  Try A Tale in the Desert.  Try Spiral Knights.  Try Puzzle Pirates.  Maybe you'll like them or maybe you won't, but if you don't, it won't be because they're WoW clones.

This right here. It sounds like a buyers remorse thread. He completely derailed his own arguement by saying he bought TOR, then sounded like he was surpised it was a themepark.

Not suprised it was a 'themepark' and this isn't a rant attacking 'themeparks'  I have had fun playing theme parks, its the individual mechanic of the thempark that I'm interested in.   Buyers remorse?  No, I have a job and a reasonable income.  However when I log into tor and my guild is empty, my server is empty...I'm left to wonder why..

Maybe in the OP I focused too much on TOR?  If so thats because its the most recent game I've played.  This is by no means on a rant on themeparks in general.

  FrostWyrm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1028

3/01/12 11:18:55 AM#35
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by crysent

But is there that much money being made? I've often considered this myself.  YES WoW has been incredibly popular and profitable..but what about the WoW clones?

 

WAR?  Empty.

EQ2? Empty

Rift?  Not empty, but certainly not raking in the dough

TOR:  Sold a TON of copies initially, but also bioware has a massive investment in the game (somewhere around 350 Million dollars) and is undenibly losing population only 2 months after release.

So what seems like an initial infusment of cash (selling lots of copies, like rift did) seems to just result in an empty game 4 or 5 months down the road, or if not empty a massive cut in #of servers and staff.

 

EQ2 is not a WoW clone.  WoW is an EQ2 clone.  EQ2 was released FIRST and has more features than WoW.  EQ2 is also not empty, unless you're one of those people that thinks they can't play an MMO without a million people or more.  

EQ2 was made first, but sadly they tried to copy a lot of WoW's features later down the line. They can't really be called a clone, but I'd say calling EQ2 a WoW transplant recipient would be fairly accurate.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1683

3/01/12 11:19:38 AM#36
Originally posted by crysentI just don't understand.  It seems the demand is certainly there, ...

 

You're right, it seems you don't understand basic economics.  The demand is there, just not for the games you want to play. People vote with their wallets, so there you go.

It always sucks to be on the side that gets crowded out, but things change and whether they're better or worse is a matter of perspective.

  crysent

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 843

 
OP  3/01/12 11:20:44 AM#37
Originally posted by Rusque
Originally posted by crysentI just don't understand.  It seems the demand is certainly there, ...

 

You're right, it seems you don't understand basic economics.  The demand is there, just not for the games you want to play. People vote with their wallets, so there you go.

It always sucks to be on the side that gets crowded out, but things change and whether they're better or worse is a matter of perspective.

Your misquoting me, and misunderstanding that quote.  I was directly referencing the massive intrests generated by Guild Wars 2.  Nothing else.

 

And again, if the intrests is in the current genre then why are there so many empty AAA mmos out there? and so many dead studios or studios being bought up by big companies just to survive?  I would say the hype is there, but intrests...not really.

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3951

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

3/01/12 11:21:50 AM#38

I have to agree with the OP. I haven't played a MMO seriously in at least 2 or more years because they are all the freakin' same game these days. It actually started with EQ although the 'Themepark takeover' wasn't really apparent until after WoW's huge success. In the years following EQ's success even UO changed with the Trammel expansion to be more like it. It was the first 'NGE' although on a much smaller scale than what happened to SWG after WoW released.

 

Although I can't claim to be any kind of expert on Rift as I only played it one day I can tell you why I gave up on it so quickly. When I was invited to the Rift Beta I was very excited to try a new game. Because I always gravitate toward archer archetypes I rolled their "Hunter" class(I called it that for a very good reason). When I started to play the similarities were apparent in the first 30 seconds of play. Then when I started to get more skills I realized that they weren't just similar skills they were directly copied from the Hunter Class in WoW only the names were changed. After I reached level 10 or so I just couldn't take it any longer and logged out never to return.

 

It's not just Rift though I've ran into similar problems with almost every game I've tried in the last 5 or so years. They lack any innovation other than different visuals and a slightly different back story. Underneath they are all the exact same game! I'm hoping some of the games on the horizon will change things up a bit. ArcheAge seems to be the best bet for something with a Pre-WoW feel to it even though it does have some WoW like features. There are a few other games as well that I'm keeping an eye on but so far AA seems to be the best bet for something new, different and challenging.

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}

  Puremallace

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

3/01/12 11:22:24 AM#39
Originally posted by crysent

Not suprised it was a 'themepark' and this isn't a rant attacking 'themeparks'  I have had fun playing theme parks, its the individual mechanic of the thempark that I'm interested in.   Buyers remorse?  No, I have a job and a reasonable income.  However when I log into tor and my guild is empty, my server is empty...I'm left to wonder why..

The game was incomplete and should not have launched. When I sat here and screamed fire and you guys still ran into the movie theatre that is the problem. There were clear signs that this game was hyped on things it could never deliver. GW2 is no different with fans promising th world and saying crap even I have not heard ArenaNET say.

 

Bioware could have literally done anythingggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg with the Star Wars IP and people would have bought. They went the ridiculously safe route and did little to no market research. My guess is they assume everyone is still playing the original Everquest or Ultima Online because the quality of the game was extremely low and they made one junior mistake after another.

 

Mistakes Bioware made is what I expected Trion devs to do, but it was the opposite. The way investors work is they give money to a good investment and what is proven to work.

  User Deleted
3/01/12 11:22:40 AM#40

Something like this happened.

Justin Bierer MMORPG

now most succesful MMORPG in the world is Justin Bierer.

Everything is called RPG nowadays,even if it doesnt have any kind of RPG elements on it,if it sells well then it is best RPG in the world.

So i call Justin Bierer MMORPG, therefore it is the best MMORPG in the world.

 

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