Originally posted by Honner

Originally posted by dubyahite
I will say this about it, the lack of a dedicated healer kind of turns me off, the lack of raiding kind of turns me off, and the fantasy setting kind of turns me off.

All that being said, the PvP is very interesting to me. If this was a subscription game, that wouldn't be enough to hold me. Since it won't have a sub I'm willin to buy it for the PvP alone an see how the rest of the game is.

If the PvP is good enough I might play it for a long time. I will wait an see about the PvE, but it's already got Two strikes agains it in that department. It's going to have to be pretty awesome to overcome my preconceived impressions.

That's the other thing what's up with a game with no sub? do people really enjoy paying every month for the content they already paid? I stoped playing games with sub because for me was kind of a joke, buy the game now and they release the final boss of the game a year+ later... really? (WoW I'm looking at you)... I just appreciate games like EVE that have a sub but they did not charge expansions. Actually I prefer the casual style of GW2 like you I want the PvP, but play it because I want not because I ''have''

Well a lot of people pay a subscription to TV and movie channels too :)

But I agree, for games, the sub model should be dead and gone already. Paying for a promise of more content is not exactly how businesses should work. We can see from WoW that just a tiny fraction of the sub money is going back to the game. Most of it it going into developing other games (Titan, D3) and into the company owners' pockets.

I definitely hope GW2 will change this model forever into paying only for what you get - right when you get it.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by dubyahite

The lack of a dedicated healer doesn't necessarily make me want to run for the hills, but the reason it bothers me is because that is the type of class I like to play the most in mmo's.  It's just the playstyle I prefer.  

If there is a good dedicated support class in the game, then I'll probably be trying that. Don't get me wrong, this isn't enough to make me not try the game out, but it is an obstacle it will need to overcome. Like I said, I'll be trying it and I'm keeping an open mind. I hope to be surprised on the PvE front.

As far as raiding goes, it's hard to explain my opinions there. I'll try though. I guess I should start by saying that I don't think that there is no way for an MMO to entertain me without raiding. Like I said about the classes, I'm willing to keep an open mind here and see what they have. 

To be honest, I really enjoy raiding in MMO's. I'm sure that's not the popular thing to say around here, but it's true. A lot of people refer to raiding as the "gear treadmill" which it can be if you let it. I enjoy the large scale teamwork and coordination in raiding. Gear is just a means to an end, not the actual reward of raiding in my opinion. 

This is not to say that GW won't have aspects of the PvE that require large groups with a lot of coordination, I'm sure it will. That doesn't necessarily mean that I will like it more or as much as your more traditional themepark style raiding content. My point is just that I don't know yet, not that I think it will suck. 

That sounds strange, but it's the best way I can think of to explain myself. I really enjoy raiding. If Guild Wars 2 can provide something similar that can keep me interested then I'll probably get into it. If not, I might just play it for the PvP. 

A water ele or Guardian should work fine for you, both are great support classes. Engineer is another possibility, or necro but almost all the classes can work as support classes so I don´t think finding one that fits your playstyle will be a problem.

I think it is more about getting the right group/guild to play with, a support character or 2 are great but someone need to dish out damage as well. :)

As for raids, if it is about coordination larger groups you like then I see no problem, GW2s scaling DEs support a lot more players than a raid. Many of them support 100 players. Find a guild that collect a bunch of players for such events (anyone who PUGed a raid can imagine that DEs with just random players will be somewhat chaotic) and you should be fine. I can´t imagine that there wont be guilds doing huge DEs together. And if you don´t find one make one yourself, I am in. :)

Hey thanks for the tips. I honestly haven't followed this game much.  

I guess I kind of took all the hype about getting rid of the trinity at face value. By the way that some people talk about this game, it sounded like they completely eliminated the "healer" role. From what you're saying, and poking around on this forum a bit, it seems like that is only half of the story.  

As far as the dynamic events go, I was already semi-aware of them.  I realize that they have some sort of world boss type thing going on (I'm sure there's more to it than that) but I'm waiting to see how it actually goes.

I intend to give it a shot and see how it goes. The PvP stuff they are doing is the big selling point to me. I think it will be worth the box price to experience that even if I don't like the PvE.  It would be nice if the PvE turns out to be really enjoyable also.

It must be difficult for people to adhere to a new system - I personally look forward to it. I am sure some people will struggle with a tank/dps/heal system till they adjust to how Arena designed the game to be played.

Originally posted by dubyahite

I guess I kind of took all the hype about getting rid of the trinity at face value. By the way that some people talk about this game, it sounded like they completely eliminated the "healer" role. From what you're saying, and poking around on this forum a bit, it seems like that is only half of the story.  

 

Most of the support 'healing' comes from a non-stackable boon (applying it multiple times only increases duration, not potency). If you are running an organised group for harder content you will probably make sure only one or two people have a skill that triggers it - same with other boons like protection - and certain professions are better at applying certain boons to the group than others. You can read up on boons and who can apply them here -http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon

Guardian, Warrior, Engineer, Ranger, Elementalist and Necromancer all get easy access to the group 'regeneration' boon, Mesmer and Thief also have acccess to it, but it isnt triggered as reliably / often. This doesnt make someone with easy access to the 'regeneration' boon a healer Not by a long shot. The healing provided is very minimal, its everyones own responsibility to stay alive, as you are forced to equip a self healing spell which will do way more healing than anyone else in the group can do for you.

That isnt to say that you cant help other players out by using defensive abilities, its just you wont be anything like an existing healer / tank that everyone is used to in MMOs.

Originally posted by Honner

Why there are so many people that do not want to accept the changes of GW2? New mmorpg are called WoW clones, because they did not bring nothing new or different. 

 Arenanet is trying to bring new air to the gender impoving what they think is wrong. 

 Now people are saying that those changes are imposible and they must have the trinity, the same quest systems,  abilities system, etc... is not ironic?

Well GW2 wil likely be a very nice game but to say it's radically different from WoW or other fantasy mmorpg's .. not really. If it's a bit like GW1 you'll still be doing (new:) some crafting, dungeon raiding, grinding reputation or earn silly (or a few less silly) titles. And thank heavens we'll get an auction house!!!

Not saying the changes ANet made won't be refreshing (and hybrid classes will making teams a lot easier) but when you're used to them and you're max lvl I do wonder how much different it will really be. I love GW1 and I'd probably also love GW2 - but I'm not really expecting anything revolutionary.

I really enjoy challenging dungeons. I like it because a really challenging dungeon won`t or shouldn`t be beatable (at least the first dozen times) without hanging out in TS or vent or whatever. So I really like team play and talking to the other people solving the problem of a boss, or a tough group or the dungeon in general. I don`t really care if its 40, 25, 10 or 5 people. Though I have to say the more people are there the more you have to keep people shut up, and lets a leader talk or its chaos. So 5 people dungeons is fine with me. Dosn`t take as long to round up those people. You won`t even run into problems if oyu want to start a dungeon at 3am for example. So yeah, I certainly won`t miss "raids".

I ll say only 1 thing. Harcore players aka "burned out ppl" brings the success.

What i want to say is that if a game worths it, has the feature and its appropriate for ppl that dedicate more online time for games the rest will follow. And i am telling again only if it has the features and worth it.

And my example is this: Blizzard started Vanilla WoW without raids some ppl started to play. Some of these addicted more than the others. So the addicted ppl started to complain that there is nothing to do after the cap lvl. Blizzard added new features for these ppl(raids and a lot more) so among these features some thing were possible for "not so addicted ppl" also.

With years rumors spread about a game called WoW and more ppl came by. The game became huge, so huge that the company thought "Hey why dont we make the game more appropriate for the ppl that dont dedicate so many hours online(the bigger part the pie"..... And after an expansion called the The burning crusade the game started to be more easy.

And we reach now... Hardcore player started to quit couse the content was easy and with them the casual couse the rumors are not high anymore.

And my personal example is: I was happy back in TBC that i was casual player and did Karazhan, i couldnt touch Sunwell but was still happy couse i had things to do. When i became hardcore player i was happy couse i could see my hours to be effective and kill the harder bosses. After few years (when the game became easier) everyone was killing everything so nothing left to keep  on. I wasnt happy as raider but even not as casual!!

With my above little story i want to say that if GW2 deserves it and has the tools to keep ppl then no matter how different is ppl will adapt. It only needs content to form a big players base and the rest will come. Rumors will spread all over again! Diversity its just the fresh air that games need atm to become competitive!!

Originally posted by Findariel

Originally posted by Honner

Why there are so many people that do not want to accept the changes of GW2? New mmorpg are called WoW clones, because they did not bring nothing new or different. 

 Arenanet is trying to bring new air to the gender impoving what they think is wrong. 

 Now people are saying that those changes are imposible and they must have the trinity, the same quest systems,  abilities system, etc... is not ironic?

Well GW2 wil likely be a very nice game but to say it's radically different from WoW or other fantasy mmorpg's .. not really. If it's a bit like GW1 you'll still be doing (new:) some crafting, dungeon raiding, grinding reputation or earn silly (or a few less silly) titles. And thank heavens we'll get an auction house!!!

Not saying the changes ANet made won't be refreshing (and hybrid classes will making teams a lot easier) but when you're used to them and you're max lvl I do wonder how much different it will really be. I love GW1 and I'd probably also love GW2 - but I'm not really expecting anything revolutionary.

Aside from the fantasy setting the two games couldnt be any more different.

Originally posted by Honner

 

Why there are so many people that do not want to accept the changes of GW2? New mmorpg are called WoW clones, because they did not bring nothing new or different. 

 

Arenanet is trying to bring new air to the gender impoving what they think is wrong. 

Now people are saying that those changes are imposible and they must have the trinity, the same quest systems, abilities system, etc... is not ironic?

Change can be good...

...but it isn't always.

I cant say I'm excited about the whole "every class is a healer" decision. To me thats right up there with adding "balance" by making everyone the same. The change has to be for the better for it to be accepted. It seems a lot of people dont necessarily find the changes for the better.

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by Honner

 

Change can be good...

...but it isn't always.

I cant say I'm excited about the whole "every class is a healer" decision. To me thats right up there with adding "balance" by making everyone the same. The change has to be for the better for it to be accepted. It seems a lot of people dont necessarily find the changes for the better.

The main reason for a lot of the anymosity in posts throughout the communities, when change is discussed, is that this word is interpreted as 'won't', as in purposely denying change could be better.

Originally posted by Roybe

Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Originally posted by Honner

 

Change can be good...

...but it isn't always.

I cant say I'm excited about the whole "every class is a healer" decision. To me thats right up there with adding "balance" by making everyone the same. The change has to be for the better for it to be accepted. It seems a lot of people dont necessarily find the changes for the better.

The main reason for a lot of the anymosity in posts throughout the communities, when change is discussed, is that this word is interpreted as 'won't', as in purposely denying change could be better.

Its a matter of perspective, I think. To the people who aren't particularly pleased with the changes. they genuinely just don't find them to be for the better. People who are fully behind the game's features see the prior as abstinant and think they just don't want change at all when in actuality its just not this particular change that floats their boat.