Bioware had the chance to create one hell of a mmo.

Starwars is so damn cool and the features they could add where almost limitless.

instead we got a weakly rescricted mmo, with alot of anoying things alot of bugs and when you ding max level, fail pvp.

They had a chance but they blowed it completely, and now they are already thinking about making a Mass Effect mmo ?

If they already think about it that i bet they have already begun with it and less contend will be created just like the WOW dev's who left ship to work on Titan.

All speculations, but SWTOR.....failed me.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by Tasarak

Originally posted by bleyzwun

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by iceman00

There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

Yes my guess is that the ghost town that Ilum will become will not be replaced by much of anything. I think they are refocusing on trying to Release more Bgs instead and fixing more endgame content to hold onto the playerbase they got. They dont have much time either so they really need to abandon things they will not get to work in a short Timeframe. And focus all efforts on fixing things that they can actually fix..

That is what I would do if I where them... Fixing the things they can will maybe bring a few customers back and get them a better reputation. And that is what they really need now. Some good player press....

You know, I have a feeling all of this is more of an EA issue than BW. If anybody remembers how WAR went down, they took forever to address issues that needed to be fixed quickly.  It also was rushed, and SWTOR feels like it was rushed as well.  I'm not sure what it is, but I guess EA cuts back on costs after the game is released or something.  

I'm curious how they will handle this game.  As of right now, I will never buy another EA MMO.  If they can save this game, then maybe I will give them another shot.  It just seems like they are moving at a snails pace to fix things.  

It is most definately more of an EA issue, but I hold Bioware accountable also.  I have cancelled my subscription because thier design philosphy is not one I choose to continue to pay for.   They realeased the game early with many bugs too numerous  to list & continue to be a problem.  Ilum was a colossus failure but they don't know how to fix it.  The constant crashing, memory leaks were too much.  Each patch that they claimed " fixed " issues, only turned out to not fix issues within Ilum & Warzone's etc.  You did not need a guild or group in this game to do anything. You felt very disconnected within the universe.  Far too much instancing & load times kept getting worse with each patch.

 I think some of us pvp'ers had some hope that there would be some decent pvp down the road, but Bioware/EA  strung us along the entire time.   This game is for people who really want Carebear PVP to begin with.  Too many WOW pver's on PVP servers thinking what they have is PVP. ( Huttball ) 

I'm out. back to DAOC.....

Being out and about roaming freely on the forums I ran across this in the Pub http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/342559/Well-worth-the-read.html ... the Wolfshead article  Is a really good READ i must say.. Its a bit off Topic but it hits the nail on everything I feel the Industry is doing wrong these days..

Here is a cut out.. from the last parts...

Read full article http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#more-6023

No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.

Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud.

If anything, Bioware’s SWTOR has made me pause to reflect about the current state of virtual MMOs and the unfortunate suicidal direction they are heading in — a virtual bridge to nowhere.

Thanks for the link.  Bascially shares the same viewpoints as I do with the MMO industry.  He only played to 20 which does not give you experience to judge a game in it's entirety imo. But intial impressions can be deterered becuase the game is highly polished at those levels.  I wanted to play all the way through to make my own decision.  I completed all the fp's, every quest on all planets (empire side) reached WarHero,(Rank 70 Valor) so I definately gave SWTOR a chance.

Originally posted by Mothanos

Bioware had the chance to create one hell of a mmo.

Starwars is so damn cool and the features they could add where almost limitless.

 

instead we got a weakly rescricted mmo, with alot of anoying things alot of bugs and when you ding max level, fail pvp.

They had a chance but they blowed it completely, and now they are already thinking about making a Mass Effect mmo ?

If they already think about it that i bet they have already begun with it and less contend will be created just like the WOW dev's who left ship to work on Titan.

All speculations, but SWTOR.....failed me.

They got hit with a question on it, and for the most part, shot it down.

I wouldn't say they are "thinking" about it.

Originally posted by Worstluck 

People also seem to forget that WoW came out over seven years ago.  It had maybe 4 or 5 other MMO's to compete with, yet when it came out it had some nice features the other games didn't have.

 

People expect NEW games to have similar features or even better ones when they are released, especially when the whole premise of your game is so similar to others.  Do quests, go through 50 levels, do instances, and raid (that is some groun-breaking stuff right there that TOR has!).  Ok there is your game, how come it still doesn't have some of the  features that older games have?  So I should wait for them to inplement them?  Why not just go back to another game, that has more stuff for me to do? 

Exactly. Been saying this for some time now and frankly BW are far from the only ones that make this mistake. It is not 2004 anymore. The landscape and the players' expectations have changed. Until they get this notion through their thick, stubborn skulls they are going to see the same thing happen in their games time and time again.

I don't know what it is going to take because we see the same patterns over and over again. I have no idea how they cannot see this themselves. It is a shame because they have no one to blame for how poor their retention rates are but themselves. Fixing it after the fact is all fine and dandy but god knows how many customers they lose in the process and the negativity it spurs towards the product.

These companies need a serious wake up call or at the very least better get more realisitic in their expectations if they're going to release a game that by many player's standards in this day and age isn't a complete product.

Well, anyways, hopefully these changes appease some of those that were rather upset about this whole thing. Unfortunately it may be too little...too late. So much of this could have been avoided before the game even launched if it was tested further and player's concerns were listened to. I mean for god's sake some of these issues were brought up by people that hadn't even played the game yet on their forums long before testing was opened up because they knew from past experiences in other games.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

 

Exactly. Been saying this for some time now and frankly BW are far from the only ones that make this mistake. It is not 2004 anymore. The landscape and the players' expectations have changed. Until they get this notion through their thick, stubborn skulls they are going to see the same thing happen in their games time and time again.

I don't know what it is going to take because we see the same patterns over and over again. I have no idea how they cannot see this themselves. It is a shame because they have no one to blame for how poor their retention rates are but themselves. Fixing it after the fact is all fine and dandy but god knows how many customers they lose in the process and the negativity it spurs towards the product.

These companies need a serious wake up call or at the very least better get more realisitic in their expectations if they're going to release a game that by many player's standards in this day and age isn't a complete product.

Well, anyways, hopefully these changes appease some of those that were rather upset about this whole thing. Unfortunately it may be too little...too late. So much of this could have been avoided before the game even launched if it was tested further and player's concerns were listened to. I mean for god's sake some of these issues were brought up by people that hadn't even played the game yet on their forums long before testing was opened up because they knew from past experiences in other games.

If this game ends up going the route of warhammer I think it will finally be a big wakeup call to developers...  and to me if it doesn't just shows people actually still enjoy the watered down carrot on a stick type games and the cycle will go on...

Despite liking the game, I'm the first to admit that the modified Hero Engine is a steaming pile of bantha poodoo.

Funny story (or sad, depending upon your POV): I was playing KoA:Reckoning the other night, when on a whim I decided to really pay attention to the textures and shadows. Guess what, the shadows and many textures on my Xbox 360 version of the game were better than many of those present in SWTOR.

Let me repeat that, so it sinks in.

A game running on what is now about 6 year old hardware (albeit highly specialized, so let's knock 2 years off for S&Gs) has better shadows and textures than a AAA MMO released in 2012 (I know it was actually 2011, but with only about 15 days to go, so screw it). I'm sorry that's just pathetic, especially when you consider how badly the game runs. It was playable for me, but I sure as hell should have been getting MUCH higher FPS considering how it looked, even on my aging hardware.

Even the supposed 'high quality' cutscene textures aren't all that great close up. I've found textures in the world that really do look like they came out of an N64 game. There's one right by speeders at the first Imperial base on Hoth that's a pretty big offender in this regard.

Don't even get me started on the 'grass growing' effect either. Good lord that crap is stupid. LOTRO and pretty much every other game does it right, having the grass and other effects just sort of fade in and out at the edges. SWTOR just has it appear right out of nowhere when you get within draw distance. Incredibly amateurish, IMO.

Normally I'm not a videophile. But the graphical quality/performance ratio of the game is just so poor I can't help but notice it. I really wish they'd gone with a different engine, or at least hired people who know how to utilize the current one. It's definitely the greatest limitation this game faces. Well, that and EA, but that's a different topic entirely.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by hikaru77

Is just a temporary solution till the 1.2 update, wich will be like a new game.  

The Miracle patch... when have any Update made to a game made into into "like  a new game?" It has never happend in MMO history. Hoping for the Miracle patch is setting yourself up for disappointment. They cant morph this game into something new. They can only try and patch the holes that are leaking...

I'm just saying dont put your hopes in some Miracle patch. That someday will come.. it's like the credence song....

"Well, I'm here to tell you now each and ev'ry mother's son
You better learn it fast; you better learn it young,
'Cause, "Someday" Never Comes."

What miracle Patch? swtor is already an huge success, you should learn to live with that. it have a lot of problems and work to do, but still is the most successful mmo post-wow. The 1.2 update is about the legacy system, ranked warzones, the fix to the gear gap in pvp, the end of the daily gear farming. Endgame custom gear, an usefull crafting. A new planet, OP, warzone, custom UI, Guild improvements etc etc and more etc.  

Is just amazing how the haters really want to convince everyone that the game is a fail, when sadly for them isnt. LIVE WITH IT. 

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by hikaru77

Is just a temporary solution till the 1.2 update, wich will be like a new game.  

The Miracle patch... when have any Update made to a game made into into "like  a new game?" It has never happend in MMO history. Hoping for the Miracle patch is setting yourself up for disappointment. They cant morph this game into something new. They can only try and patch the holes that are leaking...

I'm just saying dont put your hopes in some Miracle patch. That someday will come.. it's like the credence song....

"Well, I'm here to tell you now each and ev'ry mother's son
You better learn it fast; you better learn it young,
'Cause, "Someday" Never Comes."

What miracle Patch? swtor is already an huge success, you should learn to live with that. it have a lot of problems and work to do, but still is the most successful mmo post-wow. The 1.2 update is about the legacy system, ranked warzones, the fix to the gear gap in pvp, the end of the daily gear farming. Endgame custom gear, an usefull crafting. A new planet, OP, warzone, custom UI, Guild improvements etc etc and more etc.  

Is just amazing how the haters really want to convince everyone that the game is a fail, when sadly for them isnt. LIVE WITH IT. 

That "Huge Success" has an empty channel in my clans TS3. Guess they all developed the force and communicate telepathically now.

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by hikaru77

Is just a temporary solution till the 1.2 update, wich will be like a new game.  

The Miracle patch... when have any Update made to a game made into into "like  a new game?" It has never happend in MMO history. Hoping for the Miracle patch is setting yourself up for disappointment. They cant morph this game into something new. They can only try and patch the holes that are leaking...

I'm just saying dont put your hopes in some Miracle patch. That someday will come.. it's like the credence song....

"Well, I'm here to tell you now each and ev'ry mother's son
You better learn it fast; you better learn it young,
'Cause, "Someday" Never Comes."

What miracle Patch? swtor is already an huge success, you should learn to live with that. it have a lot of problems and work to do, but still is the most successful mmo post-wow. The 1.2 update is about the legacy system, ranked warzones, the fix to the gear gap in pvp, the end of the daily gear farming. Endgame custom gear, an usefull crafting. A new planet, OP, warzone, custom UI, Guild improvements etc etc and more etc.  

Is just amazing how the haters really want to convince everyone that the game is a fail, when sadly for them isnt. LIVE WITH IT. 

I wouldn't call it a huge success, yet.  Many of these games start off with many box sales and subs.  Let's see where this game is a year in.  

edit:  A friend of mine was a SWTOR fanatic.  He's a huge Bioware and Star Wars fan.  He was excited for this game since the day it was announced.  He truely believed this game was going to be amazing and he would enjoy every moment of it.  GUess what?  He was the first of my friends to quit playing.  This just shows me that this game is not a huge success.  If it couldn't hold my friends attention when he was that much of a fanboy, the game is just not that great.

Warhammer Online was a "Huge Success" at launch...just saying.

Originally posted by TheHavok

Warhammer Online was a "Huge Success" at launch...just saying.

sssssshhh the rabid fanbois are going to pounce on you, the game is doing amazing just ask any of them, just don't bring up the server status showing barely any very heavy or full servers be cause we all know that they are broke :P

Originally posted by TheHavok

Warhammer Online was a "Huge Success" at launch...just saying.

The true believers post almost the exact same things verbatim that were posted defending WAR.  It almost like Groundhog Day.

Canceled my sub a few days ago and can honestly say it's more enjoying reading the latest MMO news and keeping up with TWS and GW2 than it was playing POST 50. Alot of you people that predict 1.2 will make the game fun are just kidding yourself and likely most of you are sub 50. As has been said over and over and over sub 50 isn't bad it's post 50 that you will hit the wall of nothingness and find yourself becoming more and more bored with each passing day.

Anyway back on the engine topic I have a story to share that some may find interesting. A few months before Swtor I bought a GTX590 graphics card(and a 1,000 watt ps) for my rig and put my old GTX580 in the wifes rig. I primarily bought it for Skyrim since it's an abosolute marvel to behold with everything maxed.

Enter Swtor. Swtor ran fine(of course hadn't hit Illum yet) while leveling but then after one of their patches I started getting graphic tearing, messed up images and computer freezes(which required a complete hardboot). Thinking this must be my system I tried  reformatting, reinstalling, latest drivers of everything and yet I still had the same problems. Ok so to test I put my wifes' GTX580 in and everything runs just fine no problems at all. Must be the 590 so I send back my 590 to EVGA for a replacement. After a week or so I get a nice new shinny GTX590, pop it in and guess what Swtor still starts freezing, locking and same graphic issue. I'm like WTF you can't be serious!. Crysis, stunning and amazing, Skyrim, stunning and amazing, Swtor lackluster, bland and sluggish but most importantly still freezing my system. 

The disgrace of the whole situation is my new 590 sits 5 feet away in my wifes' rig which she uses occasinallly to browse the net  because Swtor is, as many have eluded to, a POS.

Guess what though BW...tomorrow I'm moving my 590 back into my rig to play games like Skyrim, Crysis and eventually TSW and GW2 because those games actually work.

BioWare should acknowledge that they have no experience re. PvP and MMO development in general. Well, actually now they have. Kind of.

Boooohoooo...

I couldn't care less about them phasing out PvP alltogether in SWTOR. People interested in PvP should start playing PvP-MMOs like MO, DF, Planetside etc and stop complaining about PvP in a PvE-themepark MMO.

On another note, they're going to release alot of PvP-content in 1.2. A new ranking-system for swinging your epeen, aswell as new warzones and battlegrounds. Just go read the f'in dev-tracker.

Originally posted by Hrica

Title SOOO misleading

 

Fanboy's have a problem with accuracy. Oh and logical processes, as well as the idea that everyone else isn't stupid. This is why we end up with titles like this.

This is superb news!

Yes! Bioware is...

It's like they don't want any world PVP....

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

Ugh.  Everytime someone brings up GW2 in a SWTOR thread, it only brings waves of angry SWTOR fans to the GW2 forum for payback.  Please stop.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

Originally posted by Yalexy

Boooohoooo...

I couldn't care less about them phasing out PvP alltogether in SWTOR. People interested in PvP should start playing PvP-MMOs like MO, DF, Planetside etc and stop complaining about PvP in a PvE-themepark MMO.

On another note, they're going to release alot of PvP-content in 1.2. A new ranking-system for swinging your epeen, aswell as new warzones and battlegrounds. Just go read the f'in dev-tracker.

The PvP'rs are breathing more life into this game than you really know...

Imagined what it'd be like without the poeple who bring up concerns.. The people over at SWTOR forums and playing the game would be complete door mats to Bioware and what they've been doing.

You'd have a bunch of people, who don't know much about MMO's and how PvP is well kinda needed in them. PvP comes in may forms my friend, not just the hack and slash variety.

But okay, all the naysayers should leave SWTOR I agree, don't PAY for anything you're not satisfied with. You have to understand the importance of that group, even with the annoyance to you it may cause. Without their voices you would be left in the dark to what Bioware is doing, and wouldn't have the changes you have coming in now to make the game better..