Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by evicton

Honestly with the Hero Engine I don't think open-world pvp is really possible in this game. On my server, Shadowlands ilum is I suppose I would say the pvp side of the planet is fairly active. In this, are at certain times, throughout the day the republic musters enough people to attack. Sometimes they can even hold center for a while. I can honestly say though if I was republic i'd have given up on those quests long ago, which creates a further gear disparity between the republic and empire, as even if the republic never goes to ilum we can still from crates. 

 

Even in the few large battles that do happen though its a nightmare of a lagfest. There is a reason wz are all 8v8 and it is directly tied to the engine this game uses. 

And you based this off what knowlege?

Gut intuition?

See, just because you've heard joe sam and tom talkin smack 'bout some graphics engine doesn't make it true.

So sir, how long have you worked with the hero engine?

I'm by no means a fanboi of TOR. In fact I'm rather enjoying seeing it crash but blaming Hero engine for anything is a bit pre mature. Bioware took Hero in it's early developement then made their own bastardization out of it.

Bioware may of had to pay for the engine but Hero has had no part in it since Bioware bought it. What you see with the engine in TOR is all Bioware, not Hero.

While tight-lipped on The Old Republic's date, EA CEO John Riccitiello was quite chatty about some other aspects of the game. First and foremost, he said that according to EA's models, it will not require a mammoth subscriber base a la Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft to turn a profit.

"We previously described to folks that 500,000 subscribers saw the game as substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing that we would write home about," he said. "[But] anything north of 1 million subscribers is a very profitable business."

Riccitiello went on to say that as EA sees it, its "leading competitor"--a thinly veiled reference to World of Warcraft--has 6 million of 12 million MMOG subscribers in Western markets. He believes that gives The Old Republic plenty of room to expand without even toppling WOW's dominance.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-needs-only-500k-subscribers-ea-6297338

Nothing to write home about but seems 500k is the baseline for them. Its a shame they ended up spending so much money of what is , while stylish, pretty routine gameplay wise. It was a safe bet but still  behind the curve. 

Lets clear some other things up.

Most PVP wasnt even beta'ed until the VERY end.  Most OPs were not beta'ed period.  The UI ?  We said it sucks in F&F beta a year before the game was out we got ignored.   

I will say this 1.1.4 and now 1.1.5 seem to be a step foward and from the leaked notes 1.2 looks awesome.   If the game continues to fix the bugs and finds a replacement for open world PVP and actually optimizes the engine more to reduce lag (it  can be done people you act like once you code the game you cant fix the source of the engine).   

1. Optimize the dam Engine.

2. Add more BGs, and some unique pvp elements

3. Fix bugs in EV/Palace and add more raid zones

4. Combat log seriously why did you take it out of beta ?

5. Throw this god awful UI out the window fire whoever made it and let the community make UIs.

6. ADDONS even if its only  for UIs let your players contribute to the game.

Originally posted by Hrica

Title SOOO misleading

 

Agreed. 

Though it is an attention grabber. 

Originally posted by Jason2444

The Bioware model. Can't fix it? Remove it!

They picked this up from the Mythic devs actually, a la Warhammer Online.   WAR continually removed features from the game because they couldn't fix them, they couldn't fix the population balance, and they didn't know how to maximize the engine (Gamebryo for War) so that you could have lots of people on screen at the same time.  No one can fix population balances for two factions in an open world area, it's not possible.  You can't balance only two factions, developers just can't grasp this.  Blizzard couldn't do it, so they came up with Alterac Valley and Wintergrasp, that limits the amount of people in a so called open area and then buffs the underdog if needed.  Multiple factions, while seemingly harder to manage and balance, actually provide the player base with a way of balancing themselves, as long as the factions are somewhat equal in terms of power.  Just my experience at least.  Red vs. Blue works great in an instanced environment, where you can control the number of people.  It doesn't work in the open world. 

They really should just focus on raiding, and making the pve experience better.  Bioware seems to know little about how PvP games work.  From my understanding, some of the devs who worked on WAR's pvp had a hand in how SWTOR's pvp was developed, and it shows for sure.  They are making the same mistakes.

Originally posted by William12

Lets clear some other things up.

 

Most PVP wasnt even beta'ed until the VERY end.  Most OPs were not beta'ed period.  The UI ?  We said it sucks in F&F beta a year before the game was out we got ignored.   

 

I will say this 1.1.4 and now 1.1.5 seem to be a step foward and from the leaked notes 1.2 looks awesome.   If the game continues to fix the bugs and finds a replacement for open world PVP and actually optimizes the engine more to reduce lag (it  can be done people you act like once you code the game you cant fix the source of the engine).   

1. Optimize the dam Engine.

2. Add more BGs, and some unique pvp elements

3. Fix bugs in EV/Palace and add more raid zones

4. Combat log seriously why did you take it out of beta ?

5. Throw this god awful UI out the window fire whoever made it and let the community make UIs.

6. ADDONS even if its only  for UIs let your players contribute to the game.

 

That's the biggest issue/mistake regarding PVP IMO. 

What an astonishing lack of imagination on their part. Unbelievable - they don't even try, do they? 'Open' (yeah, its not really open at all) world pvp is broken? Oh well, let them play more warzones!

Originally posted by Zuuz

What an astonishing lack of imagination on their part. Unbelievable - they don't even try, do they? 'Open' (yeah, its not really open at all) world pvp is broken? Oh well, let them play more warzones!

Its a temp fix and one that is needed.   Unlike others Ill give them a few months to fix/add stuff i usually don't decide on an MMO for 6 months if they cant get their act together by june its time to move on.

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

People forget that wow wasnt huge at release they act like wow was released and days later it has 12 mil people it took years to get wow where it is now.

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

People forget that wow wasnt huge at release they act like wow was released and days later it has 12 mil people it took years to get wow where it is now.

you guys honestly think it's just a lack of content stiring up all this negativity towards the game? really?

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

People forget that wow wasnt huge at release they act like wow was released and days later it has 12 mil people it took years to get wow where it is now.

Guess which WoW SWTOR is competing against?

Hint: It's not the release version.

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

People forget that wow wasnt huge at release they act like wow was released and days later it has 12 mil people it took years to get wow where it is now.

People also seem to forget that WoW came out over seven years ago.  It had maybe 4 or 5 other MMO's to compete with, yet when it came out it had some nice features the other games didn't have.

People expect NEW games to have similar features or even better ones when they are released, especially when the whole premise of your game is so similar to others.  Do quests, go through 50 levels, do instances, and raid (that is some groun-breaking stuff right there that TOR has!).  Ok there is your game, how come it still doesn't have some of the  features that older games have?  So I should wait for them to inplement them?  Why not just go back to another game, that has more stuff for me to do?  I guess EA was banking on Star Wars IP and voice acting (which gets boring after one playthough) to carry the game. 

Sorry, a bit off-topic.  Carry on with Ilum talk!

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

People forget that wow wasnt huge at release they act like wow was released and days later it has 12 mil people it took years to get wow where it is now.

you guys honestly think it's just a lack of content stiring up all this negativity towards the game? really?

For me personaly it hase nothing to do with the lack of content. That is not the reason I'm not playing. It's not the Bugs and its not the PvP... Bugs get fixed more content gets released and pvp get balanced. None of those things are keeping me from playing SWTOR.

Whats keeping me from playing it is Lack of SPACE content, Companions, STORY focused, Endgame focused on the mouse wheel concept. And becuase I know that just like with warhammer online I would get bored very quickly becuase I have played the concept one time to much... It dosent feel new and exiting for me personaly. It feels OLD and Dated.. There is nothing there that sparks my interest.. And no Im not burned out on MMOs.. I play them and there is one that is about to come out that was really fun testing out.... But I really need something that feels fresh at this point I wont invest my money and my time into something that I have played before just because its got a diffrent skin..

So No! lack of content is not why im not playing it.....

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

People forget that wow wasnt huge at release they act like wow was released and days later it has 12 mil people it took years to get wow where it is now.

Guess which WoW SWTOR is competing against?

Hint: It's not the release version.

 

Sorta my point people here want to claim a game as a flop before it has time to even take shape at what it might become.   Honestly now days if you buy an MMO and intend to play at release you better be patient no game is gonna offer the depth or content or bugless content that games that have been out for years offer.   I just wish people would give any game time to grow before bashing it and declaring it dead.  

I've already said I agree with alot of the complaints about the game, but I won't judge the success of the game until atleast 6 months after release unlike others who got to level 20 thats it.

Also like the person posted before me No lack of content isnt my reason, but Id bet its a reason for certain % of people but probably not the majority that will come if they ever optimize the engine and fix bugs etc there is no 1 reason.

Originally posted by Worstluck

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by Kalmarth

Originally posted by Garvon3

300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

I dont think anyone should try anything diffrent just in case they fail, we should go back to living in caves because we dont want people to try something diffrent.

If they are working on a way to fix Ilum or replace it cool, looking forward to what they do, game is very very new and still finding its feet, but I'm happy to give it time to grow to its potential, hell wow didnt start off the way it was in BC or Wrath it took time and lots of it, but the world is now populated by people that have to have it NOW or they throw a fit and roll on the floor crying.

Keep up the good work ToR

People forget that wow wasnt huge at release they act like wow was released and days later it has 12 mil people it took years to get wow where it is now.

 

People also seem to forget that WoW came out over seven years ago.  It had maybe 4 or 5 other MMO's to compete with, yet when it came out it had some nice features the other games didn't have.

 

People expect NEW games to have similar features or even better ones when they are released, especially when the whole premise of your game is so similar to others.  Do quests, go through 50 levels, do instances, and raid (that is some groun-breaking stuff right there that TOR has!).  Ok there is your game, how come it still doesn't have some the  features that older games have?  So I should wait for them to inplement them?  Why not just go back to another game, that has more stuff for me to do?  I guess EA was banking on Star Wars IP and voice actiing (which gets boring after one playthough) to carry the game. 

 

Sorry, a bit off-topic.  Carry one with Ilum talk!

Yes, agree here I played vanilla WoW and came from more asien grindy games... And WoW felt alot diffrent then other games back in 2004.. and EvE felt alot diffrent then WoW when I picked it up in 2006... Thats how I roll, and I only stayed in Warhammer online for 3 weeks... I also liked Pirates of the burning sea, because it was diffrent...

But hey what do I know, people think that most people is not playing this Because the lack of content. Im saying people arnt playing Because of the content. There is nothing there that I havent seen before. And on top of that it looks to be Unbalanced in the open world PvP. Bugy etc... Dosent give a great incentative to pick up the game now dose it?

Bah, your all haters.  With a balanced server and your weekly in log Ilum is a blast, no mmo has a perfect server balance.

Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

 This might be one of the least informed posts on here.  You are saying people are going to quit SWTOR and sit around waiting for a few months for GW2?  Over a few minor PVP changes?  Yeah, right.  I will say this much, GW2 is going to have far more bugs and issues than any fanboy could ever anticipate.  Right now, that game is just a list of features, and nothing more. 

So, SWTOR from 2011 with fully working features in the game, or GW2 which comes after the halfway mark in 2012 and has untold bugs and issues?  Hmm...

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Mad+Dog

Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

 This might be one of the least informed posts on here.  You are saying people are going to quit SWTOR and sit around waiting for a few months for GW2?  Over a few minor PVP changes?  Yeah, right.  I will say this much, GW2 is going to have far more bugs and issues than any fanboy could ever anticipate.  Right now, that game is just a list of features, and nothing more. 

So, SWTOR from 2011 with fully working features in the game, or GW2 which comes after the halfway mark in 2012 and has untold bugs and issues?  Hmm...

I want to say this post is ironic, but I often find myself questioning the appropriate use of that word.

As such I'll just settle with funny. :p