box + sub = best (this means the company treats their customers as equals)

box + sub + cash shop = greed by the company

f2p - p2w = stupidity (by the players who pay, the bills tend to rack up above sub-based games)

box + cash shop = oddity, will work if the items gained via cash shop are also obtainable via normal gameplay and aren't an insane grind to get without cash shop (like classes and new weapons in Tribes: Ascend).

I'm really starting to like the F2P + Cash shop model.  I didn't care for STO when I was paying a sub + seeing "new content" in the form of the C-Store additions.  Now, I am enjoying it again.  Aion going to F2P is amazing. Solid game, free expansions, major overhaul of the graphics at no extra cost in the form of an expansion (They just can't get a grasp of the American way. Most companies would have charged a $40 expansion for updating their graphics). DCUO is pretty fun.  

After all of this, it is getting harder and harder for me to justify spending $60 for a game and then $15 a month + $10-$25 for extras + $40-$50 expansions.

If Im already paying a sub, why am I being charged more for ingame content? Is that not what the sub is for? Sub + CashShop = greed to me. Im not buying it.

I disagree, if it doesnt directly effect gameplay then the Cash Shop is perfectly fine.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Games selling advantage are worth fussing about.

Games selling cosmetics?  Uh...there are probably better things to direct your nerdrage against.

Cosmetics are an advantage.  Not everything of value that happens in a game can be easily measured numerically.  If people are willing to pay for something, then it has value.  I actually have the opposite opinion: that anything that people are willing to pay for, in the end, is equally worthy of fuss, whether it is cosmetic or an I win button.

It is very hard for me to tell a company to leave money sitting on the table.  If people are looking around for a way to spend real money on the game, then if you don't provide a release, they are just going to go to some third-party seller of ingame goods.  But, just like gold sellers, it does do damage to the in-game community.

If I grind for a month with the goal of getting a vanity pet and then arrive for my five minutes of showing off in front of a bank only to find some great behemoth of a vanity mount dominiating the scene, then that does damage.  It quietly deflates me, makes me question why I'm bothering to play.  It's unlikely that a player would quit a game over such a thing, but it's an extra straw that is going to eventually contribute to a breaking point somewhere down the line.

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Axehilt

Games selling advantage are worth fussing about.

Games selling cosmetics?  Uh...there are probably better things to direct your nerdrage against.

Cosmetics are an advantage.  Not everything of value that happens in a game can be easily measured numerically.  If people are willing to pay for something, then it has value.  I actually have the opposite opinion: that anything that people are willing to pay for, in the end, is equally worthy of fuss, whether it is cosmetic or an I win button.

It is very hard for me to tell a company to leave money sitting on the table.  If people are looking around for a way to spend real money on the game, then if you don't provide a release, they are just going to go to some third-party seller of ingame goods.  But, just like gold sellers, it does do damage to the in-game community.

If I grind for a month with the goal of getting a vanity pet and then arrive for my five minutes of showing off in front of a bank only to find some great behemoth of a vanity mount dominiating the scene, then that does damage.  It quietly deflates me, makes me question why I'm bothering to play.  It's unlikely that a player would quit a game over such a thing, but it's an extra straw that is going to eventually contribute to a breaking point somewhere down the line.

A very good point of view on the subject!

I will not play a game that has a sub fee and a cash shop.

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by MaikkyWin

For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .

I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)

This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.

So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?

Depends.

Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?

That is not a matter of opinion. It is content. What is a matter of opinion is whether it is content that matters to you.

Originally posted by WhySoShort

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by WhySoShort

Considering that the sub fee in most MMOs is a rip-off anyways, I think a sub fee with a cash shop is usually just a slap in the face. I would count LOTRO as the exception, because they give you points to buy stuff in the cash shop as a part of the subscription. 

So does Funcom.

Do they? I haven't heard anything about that. Source please

http://www.darkdemonscrygaia.com/showthread.php?t=20339

From Tarib: "The Secret World will feature a traditional paid subscription model combined with micro-transactions through an in-game store"

Originally posted by WhySoShort

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by WhySoShort

Considering that the sub fee in most MMOs is a rip-off anyways, I think a sub fee with a cash shop is usually just a slap in the face. I would count LOTRO as the exception, because they give you points to buy stuff in the cash shop as a part of the subscription. 

So does Funcom.

Do they? I haven't heard anything about that. Source please

Most likely he meant  The Secret Wold which has a sub fee, cash shop and box price

"At the presentation we revealed that The Secret World will feature a traditional paid subscription model combined with micro-transactions through an in-game store. This information was provided as part of Funcom's financial forecast going forward, and no further details were given due to the fact that we are still working on finalizing the model."

http://www.darkdemonscrygaia.com/showthread.php?p=523662

Originally posted by maplestone

If I grind for a month with the goal of getting a vanity pet and then arrive for my five minutes of showing off in front of a bank only to find some great behemoth of a vanity mount dominiating the scene, then that does damage.  It quietly deflates me, makes me question why I'm bothering to play.  It's unlikely that a player would quit a game over such a thing, but it's an extra straw that is going to eventually contribute to a breaking point somewhere down the line.

I guess I never saw it this way because I don't care what others have or worry if they care what I have. If I farm 10 hours for an item and he purchases it for $10, then the only difference is the journey to the two individuals took to get it. I know what I did, he knows what he did, but wondering what each other chose to do is fruitless. People do what satisfies themselves in these games, and to catch feelings over property is borderline lunatic. 

But I think I'm in the extreme minority here.

no your not part of the minority. honestly i could give a rats ass what others think about me, if i see something that i want in the cash shop i buy it for me, not because i have a inferiority complex. this arguement that claims people will buy things from the cash shop because other people have is dumb. sure some people will fall into that catagory, Natural selection claims lives every year. what shouldnt a company make a profit of your short comings.

All I really have to say is "Greed is Good". Thats what I think about it.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

if i see something that i want in the cash shop i buy it for me, not because i have a inferiority complex.

But what is your motive for wanting it?  If you actually trace through your emotions, where does that desire actually come from?

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by LadyNoh

if i see something that i want in the cash shop i buy it for me, not because i have a inferiority complex.

But what is your motive for wanting it?  If you actually trace through your emotions, where does that desire actually come from?

Why is that a concern to anyone but him?

Originally posted by bossalinie

Why is that a concern to anyone but him?

Ok ... that wasn't really the right question for me to ask - it's not really about the motives of the purchaser but the overall effect on the community as a whole.  It's just that the poster was so quick to point out they didn't have an inferiority complex that it came across as an obvious attempt to portray themselves as superior.

if the game is good, and the cash shop is purely cosmetic, I couldnt care less.

I will enjoy the game and ignore the cash shop altogether.

vanity stuff ranks around the rock bottom in my list of priorities when playing a game. no wait, actually they dont even rank up, usually I wont spend a single second of my game time hunting for an item that just looks good, when I could be hunting for an item that looks a wee bit worse but is actually an upgrade.

those who think differently, I respect it, but I just dont understand them.

I dont feel impressed AT ALL by what someone is wearing, unless its an item that has some real ingame value, e.x better stats...

I simply cannot picture my MMOs as catwalks

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by bossalinie

Why is that a concern to anyone but him?

Ok ... that wasn't really the right question for me to ask - it's not really about the motives of the purchaser but the overall effect on the community as a whole.  It's just that the poster was so quick to point out they didn't have an inferiority complex that it came across as an obvious attempt to portray themselves as superior.

I think it was moreso that the inferiority complex card is the default stereotype that people use to jab at individuals for usng cash shops. It was innevitiable that it was going to brought up...who said it first doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by maplestone

If I grind for a month with the goal of getting a vanity pet and then arrive for my five minutes of showing off in front of a bank only to find some great behemoth of a vanity mount dominiating the scene, then that does damage.  It quietly deflates me, makes me question why I'm bothering to play.  It's unlikely that a player would quit a game over such a thing, but it's an extra straw that is going to eventually contribute to a breaking point somewhere down the line.

I guess I never saw it this way because I don't care what others have or worry if they care what I have. If I farm 10 hours for an item and he purchases it for $10, then the only difference is the journey to the two individuals took to get it. I know what I did, he knows what he did, but wondering what each other chose to do is fruitless. People do what satisfies themselves in these games, and to catch feelings over property is borderline lunatic. 

But I think I'm in the extreme minority here.

That's perfectly fine.

Also there is perfectly fine that some people want to play a game where buying something in cash shop is impossible.

Both 'views' are fine ,even if they are mutually exclusive :)

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by MaikkyWin

For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .

I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)

This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.

So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?

Depends.

Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?

 

I do.

Why should a player who enjoys aesthetics more have to pay extra as opposed to a player who only cares about stats?

Not very fair.