Originally posted by TheSedated

Originally posted by Consequence

I dont get people making the argument "you cant compare it to AOC because AOC is free now."

 

So what? It wasnt free before and it DID have cash ship then too. Instead of a normal store, they would give you in game items for say subscribing to the game for a year. And the items were things that were very  hard to aquire through normal game means. That is effectively a cash shop. You pay  money and get stuff in game = cash shop. I remember working hard to get a mount. It took some time to get and a lot of work. Shortly after the cash shop subscription mount was offered for ~100 bucks, which also gave a year sub.

Oh yeah. Nice idea from Funcom to rip off people. Selling things in a cash shop for $100 and also putting a free year of subscription on top. That's totally different from any other company out there that offered free things in addition to a one year subscription which you got for... around $100?

I really do get the feeling that Funcom didn't release a game in a bad state, no they sent their agents around the world to rape and murder the families of everyone who thought to buy a game called Age of Conan. At least that's the impression you get when reading many of these comments.

Very few MMO launches have been as mired in controversey as AoC's. Few MMO companies have lied to their players has much as Funcom did, about what was in their game.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

You can buy all PVP Armor and weapons. You can buy tokens to upgrade the neck item witch is quite powerful. you can also now buy pre packaged buffs ready to go. And in AO, buffs are powerful. Also, many of these items in the CS are not bound to you. You can turn around and trade them ingame. Which is hurting an already failing ingame economy. In fact, they have recently removed several of the known methods of farming money in game. They have cited several different reasons for removing sources of income for players, however, they have not stopped people from trading items they bought with real money.

Wrong.

The "PVP Armor" that you are refering to must be LE Armor that you buy with Victory Points? Correct? Please show me one current end-game PVP build of ANY profession that wears more than 2 - 3 pieces of LE Armor in their setup.

You know what, log in right now and duel me in Bor. You wear all LE gear and I'll wear my setup. Deal?

Even IF you find a setup with the 3 most expensive pieces (unlikely combination for any setup), you mean to tell me that you can't get the Victory Points from Level 1 - 220/30/70 to buy those pieces? Really? Not even by accident? You even get more the higher level you get.

PVP Armor is Combined AI Armor, which is NOT sold in the CS. There are social sets you can buy, but have not stats at all, they just equip in the social tab.

Tokens for the neck board. You mean to tell me that you can't get 2500 tokens leveling from 1 - 220/30/70? Really? Not even by accident? Again, the higher level you are, the more you get.

The ONLY way that you would not have any of this stuff is if you were powerleveled from level 1 - 175/0/49. What we call "Heck Noobs". Then you want to come to endgame and play with the TL6-7 practically naked and gimed because you skipped 175 levels of gameplay. Those are the people that buy Tokens and VP from the cash shop.

Shocking, powerlevelers have to buy from CSs. I hear they even buy money from gold farmers too!

Calm down and move on.

Originally posted by Garvon3

But the real question, does TSW have any instancing, or is it just another wannabe pseudo singleplayer MMO?

 

The are using a new single server technology that will split areas dynamically into shards. So yes it will be instanced in the zones, however they stated there will be no instancing in the social hubs (the number of visible players might be dynamically reduced on the client side to keep performance stable) and the player limit will be significantly higher than in Age of Conan.

Pseudo-Singleplayer is not caused by instancing, it is created by content not giving any incentive to group and interact. So even WoW with a non-instanced non-load between zones world can be leveled from 1-85 without ever interacting with any other player. Lets see how it works out.

Originally posted by Consequence

Im sorry, but I see no reason to think the game being made by the same people as AOC wouldnt use the same ideas again.

 

That is not true, the development team is completely different. The only thing they have in common is the Dreamworld engine both games are using. So saying it is made by the same people is incorrect. Yes, Funcom as a company will publish both games, and they made the wrong choices on how (and especially when) bring Conan to market, but the automatic conclusion that TSW will be unfinished and a rip-off at lauch is jsut not fair. However, yes it is absolutely possible that it will be the case, but I will give them the benefit of a doubt and at least invest in the boxsale, if it is broken then, still can rejoin a couple of month down the road if the gameplay is convincing...

I can only tell if this game is worth the money if you trailed it or play for about a month, I've played some of Funcoms games, AoC is a bit too difficult and i can't seem to get out of tortage in any of the basic classes and how there is a lack of a good guide to help me level up my character as well. I've also tried Anarchy Online and again usually don't get so far as after i got out of the tutorial zone and do quests, it tend to get boring and i'm starting to get my ass kicked when i continue on, i've stopped playing that game quickly as i don't like the whole structure of the game. Bloodlines Champions but i stop playing that game as I no longer like the MOBA games anymore (all the games, including LoL) and lack of a progression to motivate me to go on, and the lack of quality team players (like all MOBA's, they are shit teammates in most of my rounds).

After SWTOR hype, every gamer should be cynical and wait for comprehensive YouTube reviews.

Until then, I'm assuming it's a Scooby Doo themed WoW.

I'm definitely looking forward to this game. I want an MMO that challenges my intelligence again, instead of offering gameplay that degenarates me into a drooling lobotomist.

Please Funcom, don't fuck this up!

Lol I already see the superiority complex of TSW community b/c it's a "thinking mans game" =P

I'm hooked just based on the setting and the fact that Funcom made Anarchy Online (insanely original world/items/certain gameplay systems). The fact that it is level-less as well is remarkable.

I'm willing to forget their use of the trinity system just so I can play a new AAA mmo not based on medieval fantasy regurgitation (SWTOR doesn't really count as an MMO).

 I plan on waiting for 3 to 6 months before trying out TSW, Funcom made me leery of trying any game of theres at launch due to AoC.  Though AoC is a wonderfully painted world to me it never became a good mmo-rpg. It always felt half baked, and event today feels that way or I should say as of last fall. Which was the last time I went back to check it out. I will be watching all info related to TSW for the first six months though in order to see how the game develops, what issues they have or don't have etc.

Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win".

   I'll agree with this actually. I never have a problem with a cash shop that is selling fluff items. I like when a game developer has income coming in, makes them more financally solvent. Which is a good thing, because then they can keep staff and afford other operating  costs in order to continue to make the game I like playing. I do take issue with cash shops that sell items that effect game mechanics play, specially gains that can effect pvp.

Originally posted by Indol

I'm hooked just based on the setting and the fact that Funcom made Anarchy Online (insanely original world/items/certain gameplay systems). The fact that it is level-less as well is remarkable.

I'm willing to forget their use of the trinity system just so I can play a new AAA mmo not based on medieval fantasy regurgitation (SWTOR doesn't really count as an MMO).

actually its abit more complicated than basic trinity. its going to feel more like DND since you need a controller, a striker, a support, a tank, and a healer.

this all stems from only having 7 abilites while still having a decent focus on things like CC.

Originally posted by Zikari

Originally posted by Garvon3

But the real question, does TSW have any instancing, or is it just another wannabe pseudo singleplayer MMO?

 

The are using a new single server technology that will split areas dynamically into shards. So yes it will be instanced in the zones, however they stated there will be no instancing in the social hubs (the number of visible players might be dynamically reduced on the client side to keep performance stable) and the player limit will be significantly higher than in Age of Conan.

Pseudo-Singleplayer is not caused by instancing, it is created by content not giving any incentive to group and interact. So even WoW with a non-instanced non-load between zones world can be leveled from 1-85 without ever interacting with any other player. Lets see how it works out.

Instancing greatly contributes to that. I don't play MMOs to "dynamically see only 30 or so people". I play for massive. I'll be passing on this one too then I suppose. I'm tired of MMOs justifying a monthly fee despite never actually being able to play with massive amounts of people.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

Originally posted by Indol

I'm hooked just based on the setting and the fact that Funcom made Anarchy Online (insanely original world/items/certain gameplay systems). The fact that it is level-less as well is remarkable.

I'm willing to forget their use of the trinity system just so I can play a new AAA mmo not based on medieval fantasy regurgitation (SWTOR doesn't really count as an MMO).

actually its abit more complicated than basic trinity. its going to feel more like DND since you need a controller, a striker, a support, a tank, and a healer.

 

this all stems from only having 7 abilites while still having a decent focus on things like CC.

I know you understand the game, but you shouldn't say 7 abilities, most people don't know you are talking about the active abilities...

there are 14 abilities

Originally posted by rpgalon

Originally posted by LadyNoh

Originally posted by Indol

I'm hooked just based on the setting and the fact that Funcom made Anarchy Online (insanely original world/items/certain gameplay systems). The fact that it is level-less as well is remarkable.

I'm willing to forget their use of the trinity system just so I can play a new AAA mmo not based on medieval fantasy regurgitation (SWTOR doesn't really count as an MMO).

actually its abit more complicated than basic trinity. its going to feel more like DND since you need a controller, a striker, a support, a tank, and a healer.

 

this all stems from only having 7 abilites while still having a decent focus on things like CC.

I know you understand the game, but you shouldn't say 7 abilities, most people don't know you are talking about the active abilities...

there are 14 abilities

true enough, from now on ill try to call them Attacks or something.

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

You can buy all PVP Armor and weapons. You can buy tokens to upgrade the neck item witch is quite powerful. you can also now buy pre packaged buffs ready to go. And in AO, buffs are powerful. Also, many of these items in the CS are not bound to you. You can turn around and trade them ingame. Which is hurting an already failing ingame economy. In fact, they have recently removed several of the known methods of farming money in game. They have cited several different reasons for removing sources of income for players, however, they have not stopped people from trading items they bought with real money.

Wrong.

The "PVP Armor" that you are refering to must be LE Armor that you buy with Victory Points? Correct? Please show me one current end-game PVP build of ANY profession that wears more than 2 - 3 pieces of LE Armor in their setup.

You know what, log in right now and duel me in Bor. You wear all LE gear and I'll wear my setup. Deal?

Even IF you find a setup with the 3 most expensive pieces (unlikely combination for any setup), you mean to tell me that you can't get the Victory Points from Level 1 - 220/30/70 to buy those pieces? Really? Not even by accident? You even get more the higher level you get.

PVP Armor is Combined AI Armor, which is NOT sold in the CS. There are social sets you can buy, but have not stats at all, they just equip in the social tab.

Tokens for the neck board. You mean to tell me that you can't get 2500 tokens leveling from 1 - 220/30/70? Really? Not even by accident? Again, the higher level you are, the more you get.

The ONLY way that you would not have any of this stuff is if you were powerleveled from level 1 - 175/0/49. What we call "Heck Noobs". Then you want to come to endgame and play with the TL6-7 practically naked and gimed because you skipped 175 levels of gameplay. Those are the people that buy Tokens and VP from the cash shop.

Shocking, powerlevelers have to buy from CSs. I hear they even buy money from gold farmers too!

Calm down and move on.

I never said the stuff you can buy in teh CS makes you the strongest player in the game. But it does make you strong. Also, It's not just powerlevers who need the CS. It's anyone who didn't have billions prior to recent changes. There have been too many nerfs to things in game that let players farm credits. When I still had my account active, I seem to recall GMS being flooded with what used to be rare symbs. Probably because more and more players are forced to use what methods still remain to farm. Players that have been around for a long time have made their money and have their gear. But what about those who play who aren't from the earlier days. They can't get billions. It's very difficult now for a new 220 to make money because of the changes in game. People used to use S10. S10 has become a ghost town of a zone. I remember farming Token Guns. Had tons of them on a mule. One of the last things I did was try to sell some. But they are now worthless b/c of the CS.

As far as your point goes about the gear and power levels. It's semantics. I know that if I had an unlimited real money buget to spend in game, I can buy off CS and resell to make huge ingame profits. So, using the cash shop, I can get the combined, I can get the NODROPs from the Loot Rights sellers. It doesn't take long. Few days...a week maybe. And due to the CS, I'd wager that I could have a toon worthy of any PVP fight in very short order.

P.S. I have a question for current AO players. How much has FC turned around and re invested back into AO from the profits they have made from AO's cash shop? To my knowlege, it's been nothing what so ever. No content, not upgrades (that were supposed to be delivered how many years ago?) Nothing at all.

I'm in the wonderous camp for everything with the exception of the cash shop, no reason for it absolutely disgusting. I will keep following because I love every other aspect (and the arg's) and hope that the shop only contains admin stuff like server exchange etc, but I doubt it.

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

You can buy all PVP Armor and weapons. You can buy tokens to upgrade the neck item witch is quite powerful. you can also now buy pre packaged buffs ready to go. And in AO, buffs are powerful. Also, many of these items in the CS are not bound to you. You can turn around and trade them ingame. Which is hurting an already failing ingame economy. In fact, they have recently removed several of the known methods of farming money in game. They have cited several different reasons for removing sources of income for players, however, they have not stopped people from trading items they bought with real money.

Wrong.

The "PVP Armor" that you are refering to must be LE Armor that you buy with Victory Points? Correct? Please show me one current end-game PVP build of ANY profession that wears more than 2 - 3 pieces of LE Armor in their setup.

You know what, log in right now and duel me in Bor. You wear all LE gear and I'll wear my setup. Deal?

Even IF you find a setup with the 3 most expensive pieces (unlikely combination for any setup), you mean to tell me that you can't get the Victory Points from Level 1 - 220/30/70 to buy those pieces? Really? Not even by accident? You even get more the higher level you get.

PVP Armor is Combined AI Armor, which is NOT sold in the CS. There are social sets you can buy, but have not stats at all, they just equip in the social tab.

Tokens for the neck board. You mean to tell me that you can't get 2500 tokens leveling from 1 - 220/30/70? Really? Not even by accident? Again, the higher level you are, the more you get.

The ONLY way that you would not have any of this stuff is if you were powerleveled from level 1 - 175/0/49. What we call "Heck Noobs". Then you want to come to endgame and play with the TL6-7 practically naked and gimed because you skipped 175 levels of gameplay. Those are the people that buy Tokens and VP from the cash shop.

Shocking, powerlevelers have to buy from CSs. I hear they even buy money from gold farmers too!

Calm down and move on.

I never said the stuff you can buy in teh CS makes you the strongest player in the game. But it does make you strong. Also, It's not just powerlevers who need the CS. It's anyone who didn't have billions prior to recent changes. There have been too many nerfs to things in game that let players farm credits. When I still had my account active, I seem to recall GMS being flooded with what used to be rare symbs. Probably because more and more players are forced to use what methods still remain to farm. Players that have been around for a long time have made their money and have their gear. But what about those who play who aren't from the earlier days. They can't get billions. It's very difficult now for a new 220 to make money because of the changes in game. People used to use S10. S10 has become a ghost town of a zone. I remember farming Token Guns. Had tons of them on a mule. One of the last things I did was try to sell some. But they are now worthless b/c of the CS.

As far as your point goes about the gear and power levels. It's semantics. I know that if I had an unlimited real money buget to spend in game, I can buy off CS and resell to make huge ingame profits. So, using the cash shop, I can get the combined, I can get the NODROPs from the Loot Rights sellers. It doesn't take long. Few days...a week maybe. And due to the CS, I'd wager that I could have a toon worthy of any PVP fight in very short order.

 

P.S. I have a question for current AO players. How much has FC turned around and re invested back into AO from the profits they have made from AO's cash shop? To my knowlege, it's been nothing what so ever. No content, not upgrades (that were supposed to be delivered how many years ago?) Nothing at all.

That I'd be fascinated to learn myself.  I was a big fan of funcom, until after the Anarchy Online launch.  I gave them another chance with the launch of Age of Conan... We all know how that went.  I really hope they have learned their lesson, and that The Secret World launch works out better than either of their other games launch did. Did they ever actually get a new engine for AO? They had been talking about it for years, when I finally left. 

As for cash shops, what you are describing reminds me of the cash shop for a game called Cabal online.  I have a level 125 warrior in that game, and you can literally buy your way up. Armor and weapons can cost hundreds of millions (or in some cases a billion plus) of in game currency in the AH.  There are things you can purchase from the cash shop, that can be sold to either NPC's or other players that bring in INSANE amounts of currency. 

The hyperinflation that results from that is as predictable, as it is profitable for the company.  Lets hope that doesn't happen with TSW.