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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » [Poll] How do you view Bioware after SW:TOR?

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241 posts found
  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

2/27/12 9:40:30 PM#121
Originally posted by dubyahite
I honestly don't see what the big deal with the ME3 DLC. it's always some side story that is barely relevant to the main game.

The ME 2 DLC was very forgettable. People say they aren't getting the whole game, your missing out on a single side quest that barely even matters.


They could have released the same DLC in a few weeks and Boone would even care about it. I wouldn't even buy it based on experience with previous ME DLC.

I tell you what the deal is.

a) Some content is ONLY inside the Digital Deluxe edition, among it a Protean companion, and given how central the Proteans are to the entire ME story, I say that is frigging important and not arbitrary!

b) Putting a DLC even at launch means the normal box has cut content they sell extra ON TOP of the already hefty box price of $60 for a NORMAL PC version. Which is already insane expensive!

c) The DLC content gets larger and larger, and especially Bioware & EA are always selling smaller content for more money. Some of the DA DLC content was $7 or something for a mere 1 hour playtime! Given a normal expansion pack of $30 gives me 10-20 hours, that is extortion! This trend to take out content and add it as DLC to make even more money is just plain WRONG!

d) EA continues it's policy to make re-selling your game impossible by "Origin" and content bound to one player. I VIVIDLY oppose that. If I pay 60 bucks, EA got my share for the development of the game. It then should be MY PROPERTY, and that includes my right to sell that game. Period. I mean, what comes next? Forbidding to resell used books or cars? That minimizes the profit of car companies and book authors, but no one would use that argument to make reselling impossible.

 

This is a bad development of things I can not support. So for me it's a clear boycott.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

2/27/12 9:44:28 PM#122
Originally posted by Elikal
...

But in a company of that size, isn't there ONE person who can stand up and say: "hey guys, it isn't working like this!"? THAT's what really baffles me. Or are they only surrounded by uncritical yay-sayers now? I don't really understand why they have zero understanding to really correct themselves in any way.

No need to blame the developers and artists I think. Too many of them are just people like you and me doing their job.

In my opinion, the founders and leaders of Bioware wanted to transform Bioware into a mass-market brand long before they got acquired by EA. And, from a business point of view, that might even have been a good decision. 

As a sidenote, do I remember right that the founders of Bioware didn't even sell Bioware to EA but instead sold Bioware to Elevation Partners (a private equity fund) many years ago and Elevation Partners sold their stake to EA?

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

2/27/12 9:52:20 PM#123
Originally posted by Larsa
Originally posted by Elikal
...

But in a company of that size, isn't there ONE person who can stand up and say: "hey guys, it isn't working like this!"? THAT's what really baffles me. Or are they only surrounded by uncritical yay-sayers now? I don't really understand why they have zero understanding to really correct themselves in any way.

No need to blame the developers and artists I think. Too many of them are just people like you and me doing their job.

In my opinion, the founders and leaders of Bioware wanted to transform Bioware into a mass-market brand long before they got acquired by EA. And, from a business point of view, that might even have been a good decision. 

As a sidenote, do I remember right that the founders of Bioware didn't even sell Bioware to EA but instead sold Bioware to Elevation Partners (a private equity fund) many years ago and Elevation Partners sold their stake to EA?

I think they are victims of their own succes.

When they made Baldurs Gate and KOTOR, they were one company among many. Then gradually their self image shifted into being "THE company". It is as with George Lucas and Star Wars. Back when Lucas made the first trilogy, he still had people who corrected and critizised him, and he was willing to listen. But at the time of the Prequels, Lucas had become such a legend, no one dared to question him anymore. I mean, he was THE Geroge Lucas! But even he has things he is good at and things he just isn't. Same is with those Bioware dudes. They have strengths, but also weaknesses. And they lost the will or chance to have people who iron out their weakness. And as Lucas totally capitalized on his strength, visual and world design, at the neglectance of the rest, so did Bioware entirely focus on their strength, storytelling, at the expense of almost everything else.

 

"good decision!" for whom? You see, I am no EA stockholder. I am a gamer. As a gamer my interest is good games, not giving EA stockholders maximum profit.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

2/27/12 10:05:44 PM#124
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by dubyahite
I honestly don't see what the big deal with the ME3 DLC. it's always some side story that is barely relevant to the main game.

The ME 2 DLC was very forgettable. People say they aren't getting the whole game, your missing out on a single side quest that barely even matters.


They could have released the same DLC in a few weeks and Boone would even care about it. I wouldn't even buy it based on experience with previous ME DLC.

I tell you what the deal is.

a) Some content is ONLY inside the Digital Deluxe edition, among it a Protean companion, and given how central the Proteans are to the entire ME story, I say that is frigging important and not arbitrary!

b) Putting a DLC even at launch means the normal box has cut content they sell extra ON TOP of the already hefty box price of $60 for a NORMAL PC version. Which is already insane expensive!

c) The DLC content gets larger and larger, and especially Bioware & EA are always selling smaller content for more money. Some of the DA DLC content was $7 or something for a mere 1 hour playtime! Given a normal expansion pack of $30 gives me 10-20 hours, that is extortion! This trend to take out content and add it as DLC to make even more money is just plain WRONG!

d) EA continues it's policy to make re-selling your game impossible by "Origin" and content bound to one player. I VIVIDLY oppose that. If I pay 60 bucks, EA got my share for the development of the game. It then should be MY PROPERTY, and that includes my right to sell that game. Period. I mean, what comes next? Forbidding to resell used books or cars? That minimizes the profit of car companies and book authors, but no one would use that argument to make reselling impossible.

 

This is a bad development of things I can not support. So for me it's a clear boycott.

 

I can see your side of the story as well. To me, the bigger issue is the quality of their DLC. Like I said it is usually very poor quality (and quantity) of content. It's a no brainer to me that I'm not going to buy it. At the same time the franchise is one of my favorites, and I know I want to play it

I'm confident I will more than get the $60 value out of the game. There aren't many games out there I would consider as smart of a puruase as this one.

I guess I just don't get the outrage. When I heard about the DLC, my thought was "well, I wasn't buying it anyways, so whatever". I don't feel like I would have missed out on anything had I not gotten the ME2 DLC or the DA 1 DLC. The stand alone game is gla complete experience by itself.

As far as not being able to sell your games goes, which is hardly just limited to EA in the PC market, I've been buying games of steam for years and I prefer it to buying the damn box copy. There is a tradeoff here. You can't sell your game, but at least you have access to the game if your discs get lost or damaged.

In fact, I can't think of a time when you could ever sell used PC games effectively. This is more thecause of drm than digital distribution. Most forms of DRM these days don't let the game run on multiple systems (steam, online activation, ubisoft drm, etc). This is true even if you buy a box copy. Go ahead and try buying a box copy of Skyrim and selling it used. You can't. It requires steam and a connection to activate. Once you activate it's associated with that steam account permanently. You cannot sell it used. Has nothing to do with Bioware or EA AT ALL.

I would never buy a used PC game. Too easy to get ripped off. The idea is foreign to me. If you want to sell all your games after you play them, I would suggest console gaming. This isn't something you can pin on EA, it's just the nature of the beast.

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  Tuchaka

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/10
Posts: 467

2/27/12 10:08:52 PM#125

a little worse but not much, and i been playing since dec. 13th

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2365

2/27/12 10:13:56 PM#126

I still think they're good... they made a game with their trademark element of story. How good the story is is subjective. Don't see the problem of them being somehow worse for SWTOR.

  greenstoned

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 20

2/27/12 10:41:14 PM#127

i knew sw:tor was gunna be a piece of trash so that didnt change much

as so many ppl stated tho, day 1 DLC for ME3 is just ridiculously greedy

 

i guess ill just have to show them by downloading a hacked copy

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

2/27/12 11:19:10 PM#128

I view them in a less favorable light.  But I've always been a big Bioware fan.  I still am.  Dragon Age 2 was the game I let them have a mulligan on.  They deserve criticism for this product, but I'll check out ME3 and see if they can turn it around.

If ME3 turns out to be a steaming pile of crap (I really don't think it will be), then yeah, I think we can say credibly that the Bioware that made true classics is gone.

  Leodious

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/06
Posts: 782

The best way to travel is by means of imagination.

2/27/12 11:23:41 PM#129


Originally posted by Elikal


Originally posted by dubyahite
I honestly don't see what the big deal with the ME3 DLC. it's always some side story that is barely relevant to the main game.

The ME 2 DLC was very forgettable. People say they aren't getting the whole game, your missing out on a single side quest that barely even matters.


They could have released the same DLC in a few weeks and Boone would even care about it. I wouldn't even buy it based on experience with previous ME DLC.

I tell you what the deal is.
a) Some content is ONLY inside the Digital Deluxe edition, among it a Protean companion, and given how central the Proteans are to the entire ME story, I say that is frigging important and not arbitrary!
b) Putting a DLC even at launch means the normal box has cut content they sell extra ON TOP of the already hefty box price of $60 for a NORMAL PC version. Which is already insane expensive!
c) The DLC content gets larger and larger, and especially Bioware & EA are always selling smaller content for more money. Some of the DA DLC content was $7 or something for a mere 1 hour playtime! Given a normal expansion pack of $30 gives me 10-20 hours, that is extortion! This trend to take out content and add it as DLC to make even more money is just plain WRONG!
d) EA continues it's policy to make re-selling your game impossible by "Origin" and content bound to one player. I VIVIDLY oppose that. If I pay 60 bucks, EA got my share for the development of the game. It then should be MY PROPERTY, and that includes my right to sell that game. Period. I mean, what comes next? Forbidding to resell used books or cars? That minimizes the profit of car companies and book authors, but no one would use that argument to make reselling impossible.
 
This is a bad development of things I can not support. So for me it's a clear boycott.

Apart from vividly not really being the word you want in that context, I agree completely with everything you said. There was a time when I could buy something, a book or a game, and it was mine. I owned it. I could sell it to someone else. I could lend the book or CDs to a friend, and if I liked it, they might get the same book or game to keep for themselves. Hell, even Starcraft had a spawn copy mode that let people play it a bit to get a taste, so they could know what the game was like before they bought it. Imagine a company doing that now!

Now, I don't own games or ebooks so much as rent them from companies. Even Steam, which I use and like because of the convenience and sales and lack of a better option for many games, especially indie ones, is really just a way to prevent me from truly owning the games I buy. What I am paying for these days is the right to play what someone else owns. Even the EULA or TOS say this, if not in so many words.

It's wrong, but I don't see a way to get them to stop. They know we will keep buying these things, because we want to consume the entertainment. So why let us really own the merchandise when it doesn't stop us buying stuff?

"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."

— John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman

  ArgoZex77

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/07
Posts: 40

2/27/12 11:25:15 PM#130

Bioware RAPED the Star Wars franchise into oblivion. Their game is a complete failure.

  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

2/27/12 11:32:13 PM#131
@argozex77

No, George Lucas did that long before this game came out.

Bioware did a better job with the SW universe (story wise) than Lucas did with the prequels, hands down.

If you don't believe that, then have fun at the Phantom Menace in 3D!

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  VirgoThree

Tipster

Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 1222

FFXIV:ARR, Malboro Server, Scarlet Raven

2/27/12 11:36:07 PM#132

My opinion didn't change at all. I still like them, they aren't my favorite developer but they are one of the few I will always check out. Heck been playing a mixture of ToR and ME2 at the moment. I'm preparing for the ME3 which will probably be just as epic as ME2 :D

Was looking at my origin account, and I think the 5 out of 8 games I own are bioware lol.

  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5827

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

2/27/12 11:45:47 PM#133

i dont have a favorite game company so i never had BW on a throne. After SWtor i still have the same view of BW  i had before,  just another gaming company. Not a bad one but certainly not the best one. All the people who voted "yes, for the worst" were way overhyped before the game released and now they want BW's head lol

Thats why i dont have preferences over any gaming company. You never know when you will get disappointed.

  User Deleted
2/28/12 12:04:14 AM#134

Ok, hvent played a BW game before *gasp*  dont have time for much more than mmorpgs and well its their first.  So here is my unbiased view on them after playing their game for a bit.

Things i know are not their fault include the standard issue wow-park format...they didnt make it that way and im sure they were locked into doing it from the owner of the IP's lust for dollars over anything unique or quality.

They did solid cutscenes...voice over...facial expression..hand gestures...camera angle...character movement...was very impressive.  No more automatron mouth movement off key and stationary character with a repeating cycle of movement not based on whats being said.  They really know their shit when it comes to making a quiality movie cutscene...even if it is a mundane and short one...very good stuff and sets a new standard that wont be matched anytime soon...

The worlds are well done but you can see and hear their mmorpg developing noobyness.  Exhaustion zones are no bueno for mmorpg, especially when its an easily accessable area.. i dont like to die because i went to see whats over there near the edge of the map...and it wasnt anything but empty desert or snow fields.

Also their world was far too restrictive.  Unless programmed path, any sort of non flat area was a no go.  Slight rolling hill? need to find the programmed part that allows you to run over it or it acts like a 10 foot vertical incline that you cant scale (even if it is if theres a programmed path youll go up it)

THe above mentioned open world issues might fly in a FPS or a single player game, but in a mmorpg you need to explore and i dont like being restricted by small rolling hills or imaginary "your dead now" zones (only game ive seen do this right was fallen earth and high radiation zones...made sense why im dying at least)

Client customization was another mmorpg developer noob mistake.  We all like custimization of the UI and the graphics/sound ect because all out systems are diffrent and we want to maximize quality and preformance.  Can be fealt during lv50 RvR battles...i cant turn off others animations...too much ruckus with the scenery (bombs jets flying over lazers flying over me) the scenery is taking too much GPU/CPU and doesnt effect the outcome of the fight.  People wonder why a decent systemis getting single diget FPS (people with the best system money can by are getting low 20's though). Sound constantly cuts out as if the client is trying to produce every sound on the screen...it shouldnt if that number exceed what soundcards can produce ect.

 

Theres a lot of issues with the game mechanically ect that i cant blame on them.  For their first entry into the genere they released a decent game.  They didnt go off the beaten wow-park path, and not sure they would have been allowed to by the owners of the ip.

 

They need to tweak the client, allow us to maximize our systems capabilities, current settings are what you expect on a counsol game... Need tweak the game engin and terrain to expect that if they can see it people will try to go there, and will not enjoy pointless limitations, this goes for a slight hills and inclines being unscalable. 

My gripes are minor since the game is playable.  I will look forward to a new developer in the mmorpg genere.  Even if its not the gratest game ever...im glad lucas forked them over  a ton of money to make the game rather than blizzard/EA/sony ect.

My hopes is that once they get the lucas monkey off their back they will be able to make a mmorpg thats non a wow-park and something diffrent...since the current developer ppowerhouses wont touch anything other than that.

 

 

Damn i wrote too much...TLDR: see the guys post above me...

  DthRevan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/07
Posts: 55

2/28/12 12:25:30 AM#135
Originally posted by Kenaoshi

BIOWARE...

 

Sorry guys, had to :P

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dthrevan Xfire Miniprofile
  Khole

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 138

2/28/12 12:28:40 AM#136
Originally posted by Crunchy221

Ok, hvent played a BW game before *gasp*  dont have time for much more than mmorpgs and well its their first.  So here is my unbiased view on them after playing their game for a bit.

Things i know are not their fault include the standard issue wow-park format...they didnt make it that way and im sure they were locked into doing it from the owner of the IP's lust for dollars over anything unique or quality.

They did solid cutscenes...voice over...facial expression..hand gestures...camera angle...character movement...was very impressive.  No more automatron mouth movement off key and stationary character with a repeating cycle of movement not based on whats being said.  They really know their shit when it comes to making a quiality movie cutscene...even if it is a mundane and short one...very good stuff and sets a new standard that wont be matched anytime soon...

The worlds are well done but you can see and hear their mmorpg developing noobyness.  Exhaustion zones are no bueno for mmorpg, especially when its an easily accessable area.. i dont like to die because i went to see whats over there near the edge of the map...and it wasnt anything but empty desert or snow fields.

Also their world was far too restrictive.  Unless programmed path, any sort of non flat area was a no go.  Slight rolling hill? need to find the programmed part that allows you to run over it or it acts like a 10 foot vertical incline that you cant scale (even if it is if theres a programmed path youll go up it)

THe above mentioned open world issues might fly in a FPS or a single player game, but in a mmorpg you need to explore and i dont like being restricted by small rolling hills or imaginary "your dead now" zones (only game ive seen do this right was fallen earth and high radiation zones...made sense why im dying at least)

Client customization was another mmorpg developer noob mistake.  We all like custimization of the UI and the graphics/sound ect because all out systems are diffrent and we want to maximize quality and preformance.  Can be fealt during lv50 RvR battles...i cant turn off others animations...too much ruckus with the scenery (bombs jets flying over lazers flying over me) the scenery is taking too much GPU/CPU and doesnt effect the outcome of the fight.  People wonder why a decent systemis getting single diget FPS (people with the best system money can by are getting low 20's though). Sound constantly cuts out as if the client is trying to produce every sound on the screen...it shouldnt if that number exceed what soundcards can produce ect.

 

Theres a lot of issues with the game mechanically ect that i cant blame on them.  For their first entry into the genere they released a decent game.  They didnt go off the beaten wow-park path, and not sure they would have been allowed to by the owners of the ip.

 

They need to tweak the client, allow us to maximize our systems capabilities, current settings are what you expect on a counsol game... Need tweak the game engin and terrain to expect that if they can see it people will try to go there, and will not enjoy pointless limitations, this goes for a slight hills and inclines being unscalable. 

My gripes are minor since the game is playable.  I will look forward to a new developer in the mmorpg genere.  Even if its not the gratest game ever...im glad lucas forked them over  a ton of money to make the game rather than blizzard/EA/sony ect.

My hopes is that once they get the lucas monkey off their back they will be able to make a mmorpg thats non a wow-park and something diffrent...since the current developer ppowerhouses wont touch anything other than that.

 

 

Damn i wrote too much...TLDR: see the guys post above me...

EA did make this game. Thats the problem with it. I"m not sure if anymore Bioware games will ever be made.

  bleyzwun

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/05
Posts: 1104

2/28/12 12:31:56 AM#137

I don't really have much experience with Bioware in the first place.  I will say that they needed more experienced MMO developers on their team, though.  They really put all their eggs in one basket.  I also find it silly that they went with the same engine as WAR.  Really?  Why would you do that?

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2803

2/28/12 12:34:34 AM#138

It definitely went down.  They clearly didn't do their homework on MMOs and past release mistakes.

  DthRevan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/07
Posts: 55

2/28/12 12:43:33 AM#139
Originally posted by bleyzwun

I don't really have much experience with Bioware in the first place.  I will say that they needed more experienced MMO developers on their team, though.  They really put all their eggs in one basket.  I also find it silly that they went with the same engine as WAR.  Really?  Why would you do that?

Ummm do some research SWTOR did not use the same game engine as WAR.

dthrevan Xfire Miniprofile
  bleyzwun

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/05
Posts: 1104

2/28/12 1:16:45 AM#140
Originally posted by DthRevan
Originally posted by bleyzwun

I don't really have much experience with Bioware in the first place.  I will say that they needed more experienced MMO developers on their team, though.  They really put all their eggs in one basket.  I also find it silly that they went with the same engine as WAR.  Really?  Why would you do that?

Ummm do some research SWTOR did not use the same game engine as WAR.

Well... could have fooled me.  I have the same issues as WAR.  Crazy lag in Open World PvP.  I get stuck on objects in the environment ALL the time.  Ability lag causing my character to spaz out.  

And before someone says I need a better PC.  It might not be the best but I have a 3.30 GHz i5, 12GB RAM, and a GTX560.  Pretty sure it should be able to handle the game.  

 

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