Originally posted by LadyNoh

See my point of view has recently become the fact that even 60$ is expensive for a game. i'm not paying that, that is far to expensive. if i do decide to play it, that will be when the price drops. But wait now steam is making games drop their prices slower. Skyrims price has still yet to drop after 3 months of release. the gaming industry is getting greedy, i keep hearing about how Xbox wants to start putting CD keys on their next consoles games to force all games to be new purchase. if they go that far, im done with gaming. and i probubly wont be alone.

Originally posted by baritone3k

Is a complete Bioware game worth more than $60 (the normal price for a AAA title)?

Bioware is pussy-footing around just saying, "Listen, Mass Effect 3 is better than the other games you have paid $60 for in the past. You bought SWTOR for $60 (some of you the statue edition for $150) and paid another $15 for 30 more days. Many of you paid $60 (or $50 for PC until recently) for FIFA, Madden... let's leave EA titles. You also paid $60 for Darksiders, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Soul Calibur V.... We have created a fantastic game that leaves them in the dust and allows you a better experience. In order to fully experience our game with the lore party member, you cannot have that for $60. You need to pay at minimum $70. If you want a book too, pay $80."

Hence the rampant piracy on such games...

On other side the actual good games ( Witcher 2 for example , or Torchlight ) from companies that actually care by consumer,

Are solf for 42$ or 20$ respectively. Without any DRM and still manage to sell millions - even without the ridicilous press campains that cost almost as the whole game.

Dont even get me started on Humble Bundle games, where you get up to 10 awesome games - for anything you want to pay for them. Last time they made over 20 million dollars.

We're soon probably going to see the day bastards like these will try to sell games for $80 USD for a regular edition that has cut out content.

Nickle and Diming the consumer.  And you guys support this sh*t?  Making excuses for them trying to fleece gamers?  Please...

Well I am ok with their reasoning as long as it goes both ways. In other words, they should charge $30 from here on for TOR since it's so much worse than the competition.

Since games (especially digital versions) virtually has no inherent cost it doesn't matter what they sell them for (within reason) as long as there is a big enough consumer base.

So any "this game is worth at least 70 dollars" is really BS If you sell 1 million at 70 dollars or 10 million at 40 dollars guess what gives more profit.

This is not about game box priced at 50 , 60 or even 70 $.

It is about game company TAKING OUT relevant game portion and selling it as DLC.

Thus box is INCMOMPLETE.

DLC / expansions are supposed to ADD new things and EXPAND a game , not merely be a missing piece from original game.

Besides ME3 is rubbish and is not worth 30$ , not even speaking 70 $ lol

They should have just put the price at 70 $ to at least keep something of their integrity. I remember during the Playstation Era when some games were charged for a higher price than the norm, and that worked fine; very few complained.  I would have been willing to pay the extra 10 dollars, even 15 dollars if Bioware had the dignity to actually set the price directly rather than going through the shady underhanded "DLC day one" route. 

An appalling retail strategy from a company hemorrhaging fans quicker than TOR is losing subs. They don't seem to care that these kind of shenanigans leave a very bad taste in a lot of already disgusting mouths.

if enough suckers buy the day 1 DLC we're going to see a new pattern emerge ...

How much can you gut off of a game before people complain DLC are required to enjoy it?

Originally posted by Brenelael

they can charge whatever they want for their game. I on the other hand can opt to spend my money elsewhere 

This pretty much sums it up. Anyone who is not happy can spend their money elsewhere.

You know what's funny?  If BW would have just charged $70 for ME3, I would have cared a lot less.  At least then they are being honest, and not trying to deceive people into spending more while keeping the $60 price tag.  The deception is what pisses me off.  Don't try to con me.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of people out there that really want to play ME3, but don't want to support EA/BW.  There is an easy way to do this without breaking any laws:

Buy Mass Effect 3 secondhand.

Just wait a week or two after release and Gamestop or a secondhand online retailer are sure to have a few used copies.  Buy them.  EA/BW gets NOTHING from the sale of a secondhand game, and it's completely legal.

LOL day 1 dlc! Gotta love EA/Bioware...

Originally posted by Creslin321

You know what's funny?  If BW would have just charged $70 for ME3, I would have cared a lot less.  At least then they are being honest, and not trying to deceive people into spending more while keeping the $60 price tag.  The deception is what pisses me off.  Don't try to con me.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of people out there that really want to play ME3, but don't want to support EA/BW.  There is an easy way to do this without breaking any laws:

Buy Mass Effect 3 secondhand.

Just wait a week or two after release and Gamestop or a secondhand online retailer are sure to have a few used copies.  Buy them.  EA/BW gets NOTHING from the sale of a secondhand game, and it's completely legal.

Not saying this is the only reason, but I belive that the second hand market is one of the reasons we get all this day 1 dlc. Companies are losing a lot on SH sales and resort to stuff like this to make some money off of week 1-2 SH sales. Not trying to excuse them or blame people that buy SH. Just an observation.

The only reason they crippled their game was so they could get you to spend another $10 to unlock the 'DLC" that SHIPS WITH THE GAME!!!  All you do is download a 126K patch to enable the content already in your game, but pay-walled off.

Why?   Simple, EA/BioWare has lost $2.77 BILLION in last four years.    Over half the net-worth of the company is gone since the merger.   They need money.  How better to do it and sell crippleware at $60 AND charge another $10 so you can get the full-game?

And they (EA/BioWare) don't even have to defend it.   Fanboy appolgists will crawl out of the cracks and defend it to the death because they're fanatics.  And it's what fanatics do...     They don't listen to reason.   They don't demonstrate a lick of common sense.   They can't make a rational appraisal of the situation. 

They just defend their emotional investment in their abuser in a typical Stockhold Syndrome way...   

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by Creslin321

You know what's funny?  If BW would have just charged $70 for ME3, I would have cared a lot less.  At least then they are being honest, and not trying to deceive people into spending more while keeping the $60 price tag.  The deception is what pisses me off.  Don't try to con me.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of people out there that really want to play ME3, but don't want to support EA/BW.  There is an easy way to do this without breaking any laws:

Buy Mass Effect 3 secondhand.

Just wait a week or two after release and Gamestop or a secondhand online retailer are sure to have a few used copies.  Buy them.  EA/BW gets NOTHING from the sale of a secondhand game, and it's completely legal.

Not saying this is the only reason, but I belive that the second hand market is one of the reasons we get all this day 1 dlc. Companies are losing a lot on SH sales and resort to stuff like this to make some money off of week 1-2 SH sales. Not trying to excuse them or blame people that buy SH. Just an observation.

 What you say about the SH market is partially true.  For example, a common practice is to have DLC that is free to anyone who registers a code that comes with a new game.  This is done to combat the SH market.

But I have no problems with it, because if you pay $60 for the game, you still get the whole thing.  You just don't get everything if you buy the game SH.  If devs wants to protect themselves from the SH market that's cool.  After all, the SH market are really just middlemen making extra $ anyway.  And actually, I'm usually FOR this type of activity because I would rather support the game devs than gamestop.

But when the game dev/publisher tries to blatantly con me into spending $10 extra and rip me off?  Yeah, I will use the SH market against them.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by Creslin321

You know what's funny?  If BW would have just charged $70 for ME3, I would have cared a lot less.  At least then they are being honest, and not trying to deceive people into spending more while keeping the $60 price tag.  The deception is what pisses me off.  Don't try to con me.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of people out there that really want to play ME3, but don't want to support EA/BW.  There is an easy way to do this without breaking any laws:

Buy Mass Effect 3 secondhand.

Just wait a week or two after release and Gamestop or a secondhand online retailer are sure to have a few used copies.  Buy them.  EA/BW gets NOTHING from the sale of a secondhand game, and it's completely legal.

Not saying this is the only reason, but I belive that the second hand market is one of the reasons we get all this day 1 dlc. Companies are losing a lot on SH sales and resort to stuff like this to make some money off of week 1-2 SH sales. Not trying to excuse them or blame people that buy SH. Just an observation.

 What you say about the SH market is partially true.  For example, a common practice is to have DLC that is free to anyone who registers a code that comes with a new game.  This is done to combat the SH market.

But I have no problems with it, because if you pay $60 for the game, you still get the whole thing.  You just don't get everything if you buy the game SH.  If devs wants to protect themselves from the SH market that's cool.  After all, the SH market are really just middlemen making extra $ anyway.  And actually, I'm usually FOR this type of activity because I would rather support the game devs than gamestop.

But when the game dev/publisher tries to blatantly con me into spending $10 extra and rip me off?  Yeah, I will use the SH market against them.

Yes, I agree, that would have been the best way to handle it. Deliver it with the game and lock it out, while selling it for 10$ for a SH purchase.

I'm not a fan of the MA series and I no longer consider myself a fan of Bioware.  The last game I enjoyed from them was Dragon's Age.  Everything since then has been on a downward spiral.  There could be myriad reasons for this, but my impression is that Bioware has simply become far too full of themselves.  Combine that with the sinister whisperings of the Father of Treason (EA) and I've pretty much written off this company.  This new nonsense they are pulling with MA3 only confirms my decision.

I wasn't intending on buying (or playing) this game to start with so they can pull any crap they want.  I only hope that supporters of the series grow a pair and put their foot down for a change.  If they let them get away with this kind of crap, it's a guarantee that you'll be seeing more and more of it, not just from Bioware, but industry-wide.  That's the reason that I'm paying attention to it at all.  I'm sure a lot of people are watching to see how far BW can push this type of monetization.  If it flies, others will follow.  That could eventually fuck with my game experience.

Hope you all tell BW to take a flying leap.  Maybe a wake up call to this company will get their feet back on the ground and they'll realize that success is sweeter when you please your fans rather than bleed them.

And a tip of the top hat to TotalBiscuit for putting his long-term best interests ahead of his short-term satisfaction.  I'm sure it must be difficult for long time fans of the series to give this game a pass, but the possible rewards for doing so might be pretty important.

Originally posted by ImixZinz

I don't see how Bioware could make the case that their game is worth more.

 

ME2 .. I'd say the majority of fans would claim it to be worse than ME1.

DA2, hands down worse than DA1 and a blatantly lazy attempt to make a quick buck.

SWTOR... Its in the process of crashing and burning, as soon as competition releases in summer and fall it'll be "Dead" ala WAR

Warhammer Wrath of Heroes ... beating a dead horse.

 

Wheres the evidence that Bioware can produce a quality game anymore? Especially to label it as deserving a higher price tag, i dont see it. Hell, I don't even see how they can charge $60 for PC games, they dont have to cover any liscensing costs and the majority of it being Digital Download they dont even have a distributor cost. EA is just being rediculous and greedy.

There isn't.   I tried to play DA:O again as my old gaming computer caught fire when the powersupply shorted.     So I had no save and wanted to downloand my uploaded DA:O character from the BioWare site...    I found out it had no stats or anything so...   Off I went to rebuild him...      I couldn't make out of the first area...    The thought of all that pointless running around areas artificially contrived to be linear and unpassable with the same-ol, same-ol set point battles...  

I uninstalled.   Couldn't replay it.   It was so tedious the first time...    And all the tedium came rushing back at me like an avalanche coming down the mountain.   And yet it's the best game they've done in a decade.

The last game of thiers I truly enjoyed was NWN:HotU.     Even KOTOR was tedious.   Every planet was like running a marathon as went back-and-forth and back-and-forth and back-and-forth as you took care of each piecemeil quest...

And now, they're not even the best at 'stories.'   Even Bethesda is writing better stories and they're not exactly the king of story-writing in CRPGs.     Vampire  the Maquarade: Bloodlines was better than anything since HOTU.   Both of the new Fallouts.   Oblvion.   Skyrim.   Witcher.   Witcher 2.   Gothic 3.  

There's a couple on the PS3, can't remember the name right now, that are supposed to be mind blowing.     My friend Ed bugs me every few weeks to see if I've gotten a PS3 so he can let me borrow them...   So I can play a 'real' story-driven, intelligently written CRPG again...  

Originally posted by Unlight

I'm not a fan of the MA series and I no longer consider myself a fan of Bioware.  The last game I enjoyed from them was Dragon's Age.  Everything since then has been on a downward spiral.  There could be myriad reasons for this, but my impression is that Bioware has simply become far too full of themselves.  Combine that with the sinister whisperings of the Father of Treason (EA) and I've pretty much written off this company.  This new nonsense they are pulling with MA3 only confirms my decision.

I wasn't intending on buying (or playing) this game to start with so they can pull any crap they want.  I only hope that supporters of the series grow a pair and put their foot down for a change.  If they let them get away with this kind of crap, it's a guarantee that you'll be seeing more and more of it, not just from Bioware, but industry-wide.  That's the reason that I'm paying attention to it at all.  I'm sure a lot of people are watching to see how far BW can push this type of monetization.  If it flies, others will follow.  That could eventually fuck with my game experience.

Hope you all tell BW to take a flying leap.  Maybe a wake up call to this company will get their feet back on the ground and they'll realize that success is sweeter when you please your fans rather than bleed them.

And a tip of the top hat to TotalBiscuit for putting his long-term best interests ahead of his short-term satisfaction.  I'm sure it must be difficult for long time fans of the series to give this game a pass, but the possible rewards for doing so might be pretty important.

The last great game they made was Neverwinter Nights. The things you could do beond the original game itself was awesome.