Originally posted by oubers

Originally posted by Serelisk

I've been realizing lately that, for some reason, ArenaNet is allergic to money...

• Here, we have a massive triple-A game with an extensive system of over 1500 scalable, chainable, branchable, cooperable, and repeatable dynamic events at launch, spanning 25 incredibly large zones that also hold 6 capital cities and 8 dungeons that each have a story version then 3 challenging explorable mode versions (that's roughly 32 unique dungeon experiences, 24 of them very difficult)...
• Astride that is a personal storyline with branching decisions and more voice acting than any other MMO not named Star Wars: The Old Republic...
• A massive form of 3 faction PvPvE complete with castle sieges, guild owned keeps, supply lines and mercenary camps...
• Completely equalized competetive PvP with hot joinable matches, custom made matches, automated tournaments and a ladder system...

I mean, seriously, it seems to me each one of the things listed here could be it's own game! But they're not. It's all one game, and it'll likely be sold for $60 for the standard edition.

 

Where I'm going with this is, there's no subscription fee. We know this. There's something that was in Guild Wars 1 that I was soo positive would be in GW2 though, and would've had no qualms about it. Skill and item unlock packs for PvP. They could've been gotten through the PvE or PvP through the investment of time, and it didn't take very long either, but nope! In Guild Wars 2, you get EVERYTHING you'll need for competetive PvP right off the back. Then there's server transfers. On most other subscription MMO's, you also have to pay some ridiculous charge to the tune of about $25 or so just to move servers and play with your friends. Not in Guild Wars 2 though, which is something I'm sure they could've gotten away with(you still need to pay to change your home server to play wuv wuh). They even changed their stance on transmutation stones! They're available through karma vendors instead of the cash shop.

 

They've also promised us there will be free content updates after the game is released, such as added dynamic events to older areas, guild halls & personal housing, and possibly some of those other things they've mentioned during game conventions that they were meaning to implement but aren't focused on pre-release, such as an observation mode for competetive PvP like the first game.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm hyping them up to be "good guy ArenaNet" or something, but seriously? And where is NCSoft in all of this? The initial content you're getting in this game looks to be so extremely satisfying for just $60. And everything I listed at the top will only ever have costed you $60... so I reitterate my quandry, is ArenaNet allergic to money?

 

 

 

 

As for the text marked in red......i even remember blizzard promised housing and stuff in vanilla wow.....it never came.

I'll be waiting untill they actually implement these features.

Look at diablo3 now......the game is being stript down to make it ready for launch......so let's wait for launch and not just create more hype about GW2 ok.

 

There's nothing wrong with a wait and see attitude.  Makes perfect sense.  But I've been watching ArenaNet since day one of GW1 and they tend to keep their promises.  That or they don't make them to start with.  Also, in the time that it took Blizzard to release a single expansion, ArenaNet delivered three.  I always thought it was because Blizzard was content to sit on their laurels and collect the monthly subscription revenue, confident that since their players were already on a hook, they could let them dangle for a while.  ArenaNet though, needed to keep the content coming to make sure that players stayed interested.  And they did.

I think for GW2, ANet will need to be even more aggressive with new content releases given the competition and the fact they need to prove to many that investing their time in the game will continue to be worthwhile.  Personally, I'm confident of that, but most have a reason not to be.  Other developers in this industry have often been completely full of sh*t so it's hard to trust any of them.  I think ArenaNet will be able to change that perception for a lot of people.

Time will tell though.

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by biggarfoot

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Serelisk

Originally posted by Diovidius

It may seem generous, and Anet does look like they actually care about their game and their fans, however the reason why they put in so much stuff for such a price is eventually because they expect that will earn them a lot of money.

The only way for them to make money off of their content at launch in a manner that's not completely assholish and a complete disregard to their previous mode of business would be to make large content packages or expansions and sell them.

It's up to you as a player to decide if their content is worth your money, but if you've already fallen in love with their game, you'll definitely be inclined to get more of it, I'm sure. They're making content that people would want to buy, and if people complain about that, then they're just being greedy or selfish or something. I have no other way of describing them.

For me it depends on how its priced.

 

10$ for what would have been a content patch in a P2P MMO? Sure, 5$ for a dungeon or two? NTY.

People paid $20+ for a mount so i'm sure they could sell small content for $5

I never paid a dime towards that kinda stuff. 

 

one of the reasons I dislike B2P model, sure its not as bad as F2P but the fact that its still there annoys me. Also since GW2 is an actually MMO its goign to require more money to add more content, and you can only get so much from box sales.

You actually expect the game to be given to you, for free? You actualy think the cash shop is going to compensate them for the MILLIONS they have spent?

The mentality of gamers today just amazes me! Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme!!

First off, NCsoft is the publisher. Meaning they are fronting the money and agree with the b2p business model. Secodly, there is a lot of money to be made with 1) released full priced expansions which will come often, 2) Item and account purchases.

Just having a sub fee does not equal more profit to be made. Guild Wars 1, which would have failed as a p2p rpg (entirely instanced) was a huge success as a b2p with many xpacs type of product. That same line of success dictates they would need to continue the process to stay competetive and keep with the business model which they are known for.

I would not say Arenanet and NCsoft are being generous...I would rather say they are being SMART and consistent with the franchise.

What a blatant viral thread.

Unlike blizzard who charge you a sub and then fool people into spending 25 dollars on a stupid sparkley pony.

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open.

 

This.

Not that this is bad, or certainly not an equivalent to a sub based model.  Instead of them just getting $15 a month automagically, they will have to "reconvince" me that their game is worth dumping more money into, and that their expac is worth however much it costs.  This means there's more of an incentive to make each expac worth the money.

However, where this COULD lead, is to expacs that give people what they want in a very superficial sort of way.  Like McDonalds succeeds in making hi cal low nutrition food quickly and conveniently, Anet could make the Xpacs appeal to the more superficial wants of gamers:  More powerful gear, new level caps, etc..  Basically providing things in the xpacs that are essential to be competitive in the game.

Hard to say how the model will be used at this point, but I'm interested in the game.

Why would you need to buy new expansions in order to stay competitive? The most important skills are tied to your weapon and I doubt they will add new weapons with each expansion. They've experienced the game-breaking number of 1500 skills in GW1 and learned from their mistake(s). Obviously.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Unlike blizzard who charge you a sub and then fool people into spending 25 dollars on a stupid sparkley pony.

Sorry but what you just said sounds foolish. No one is forced or tricked into buying cosmetic items in any game. If someone wants to blow money on them, its their choice and they are responsible for that choice. You make it sound like Blizzard is trying to trick you to make your own choices as to what you want to buy. Furthermore, if that upsets you, i would recommend avoiding mass effect 3 at all cost (literally when I mean "costs")

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open.

 

This.

Not that this is bad, or certainly not an equivalent to a sub based model.  Instead of them just getting $15 a month automagically, they will have to "reconvince" me that their game is worth dumping more money into, and that their expac is worth however much it costs.  This means there's more of an incentive to make each expac worth the money.

However, where this COULD lead, is to expacs that give people what they want in a very superficial sort of way.  Like McDonalds succeeds in making hi cal low nutrition food quickly and conveniently, Anet could make the Xpacs appeal to the more superficial wants of gamers:  More powerful gear, new level caps, etc..  Basically providing things in the xpacs that are essential to be competitive in the game.

Hard to say how the model will be used at this point, but I'm interested in the game.

I dont see any reason why they wouldnt continue with the exact same model they used in the original - very large expansion packs every 6 months for the price of a new game.

The original GW1 expansions were standalone adventures (but connected if you owned more than one), not sure if that will continue, although it is possible. Players with any one of the expansions were competitive in PvP, as progression was horizontal rather than vertical.

ArenaNet is very wary of making any expansions or purchases compulsary to remain competitive because they know that just pisses their customers off, something other developers havent quite grasped yet (I am looking at you SoE).

I hope we can expect the same deals in Guild Wars 2 as the ones from Guild Wars, like 50% off different items during each sale.

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open.

 

Please dont make things that are not gonna happen sound like facts.

They tried to have 2 teams working on expansions and bring em out in 6 month intervals. It didnt work. 1 year from PROP to FAC and 1,5 years from that to NF. I also doubt they want to fragment the population on every server even further. If there s gonna be paid expansions they ll be big and world changing. Zhaitan is only one of the 5 dragons. Everything else (updates, new events, new small areas) ll be free. Yes they r that generous!

Then again they ve also expanded the cash shop to keep money flowing between expansions.

Originally posted by SonicTHI

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open.

 

Please dont make things that are not gonna happen sound like facts.

They tried to have 2 teams working on expansions and bring em out in 6 month intervals. It didnt work. 1 year from PROP to FAC and 1,5 years from that to NF. I also doubt they want to fragment the population on every server even further. If there s gonna be paid expansions they ll be big and world changing. Zhaitan is only one of the 5 dragons. Everything else (updates, new events, new small areas) ll be free. Yes they r that generous!

Then again they ve also expanded the cash shop to keep money flowing between expansions.

NightFall was released 6 months after Factions.

Muphry's Law.

Hmmm...

Well, I think that if GW2 had no competitors, they could easily make more money with a sub fee than without one.  Just look at the revenue of NCSoft's sub games like Aion or Lineage 2 vs. GW1.  That said though, I wouldn't confuse GW2's pricing model with altruism.  It's definitely a business strategy...and believe me, I'm sure they spent a lot of time analyzing alternatives before they decided on their pricing model.

IMO, when a company makes a product that many consider to be on par with, if not better than the industry leader, and then offer this product at a lower price point, they do this for only one reason.  Aggression.  I think that ANet is trying to aggressively position GW2 against WoW and break its stranglehold on the market.  They are doing this by trying to make a superior product and then offer it for less money.

ANet has even said at a few points that they want to make the "best MMORPG out there" and well, this can interpreted to mean that they want GW2 to be better than WoW, since WoW is by a far margin the most successful MMORPG.  And when you think about it, even though the game is B2P, they will STILL make mad money if they succeed at attracting the multi-million player levels that WoW has.

So basically, I think the pricing model is an aggressive attempt to dethrone WoW.  I'm not saying GW2 is the WoW killer, but I'm saying that's probably ANet's goal.

Made a mistake. Forgot how short the time was between FAC and NF. They did say they abandoned this model though and focused more on MT.

Originally posted by SonicTHI

Made a mistake. Forgot how short the time was between FAC and NF. They did say they abandoned this model though and focused more on MT.

They did. They said the 6-month model just wasn't working for them, and they'd end up having to cut out or reduce content ideas just to hit the 6-month dev mark.

Guild Wars: Eyes of the North and Guild Wars 2 were both originally part of the expansion to be released after Nightfall, called Utopia. They ended up dropping the 6-month model during development of it, then separated Utopia up and re-worked it into Eyes of The North, while also starting work on Guild Wars 2.

So no, there isn't going to be some 2-3 month expansion packs, 6 months is more than likely not going to occur either.

60 dollars for a quality video game? Yea, that sounds about right. You're just used to developer stealing your money.

Ah men to the OP.  I was seriously done with MMO's, then over the last few months I've been glancing at Guildwars 2 and reading about it, then last monday when I heard about WvWvW and took into consideration everything else I've read, I think I'll be putting some time in.  

I mean dear god, there are so many skills per character its unreal.  I was just looking at the engineer class since it seems by far the most diverse and I couldn't believe how many options they give you 30-40 skills...  I mean I craped my pants and sent a check in that day.....

I would be surprised if there weren't "mission packs" or one-off dungeons, or a whole host of cash shop items we're not prepared for, before this goes live.

I agree with @Creslin about the aggressive pricing, but something still doesn't add up. How do you recoup your costs on the initial development, plus pay the salaries of 50 developers, and keep the lights on with only ONE x-pack per year?

I guess we'll find out. But if the cash-shop is a little more robust than anticipated, or we see downloadable content available for a fee, I fear the deluge of tears that will hit the forums.

Originally posted by Cursedsei

 

They did. They said the 6-month model just wasn't working for them, and they'd end up having to cut out or reduce content ideas just to hit the 6-month dev mark.

Guild Wars: Eyes of the North and Guild Wars 2 were both originally part of the expansion to be released after Nightfall, called Utopia. They ended up dropping the 6-month model during development of it, then separated Utopia up and re-worked it into Eyes of The North, while also starting work on Guild Wars 2.

 

So no, there isn't going to be some 2-3 month expansion packs, 6 months is more than likely not going to occur either.

 I doubt we'll see full blown expansions every six months, but I'm sure they'll be releasing content regardless, I wouldn't mind seeing content packs/dungeons etc.. in the cash-shop, I'd rather buy that, much more so than cosmetics.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Unlike blizzard who charge you a sub and then fool people into spending 25 dollars on a stupid sparkley pony.

Sorry but what you just said sounds foolish. No one is forced or tricked into buying cosmetic items in any game. If someone wants to blow money on them, its their choice and they are responsible for that choice. You make it sound like Blizzard is trying to trick you to make your own choices as to what you want to buy. Furthermore, if that upsets you, i would recommend avoiding mass effect 3 at all cost (literally when I mean "costs")

It's not foolish! because the mentallity of the wow player is to  collect everything so they can feel more leet than all you other noobs, blizzard know if they release a unique item in the store that the fans will go mad to get their hands on it..a mount is somehow worth more than subscription cost to a game and you cant even keep that mount unless you keep subscribing to the game..its a scam nothing more.

Mass effect 2 was uninspiring so why woud i buy mass effect 3?