Will save my judgement for when GW2 is out for some time.

Besides I don't think NCSoft / Arena.net want to earn LESS , imo expansions / cash shop might be more aggressive than in GW1.

People tend to not realize how much money f2p games can make from small transaccounts. Similiar to paying for phone apps people get a few new apps for a dollar a piece every week. The small costs adds up over time and you end up paying alot for it.

Due to it being free after buy the game the mmo will have a larger playerbase than most other p2p game. So even if only 1/4 of the players are buy cosmetic gear they are still making a decent profit. After cosmetic gear Arenanet will still put out a expac every 6 months or so. Overall Arenanet will make more money with a f2p model than with a p2p one and keep more people happy since they know what they are paying for. 

Originally posted by Serelisk

They're focusing on putting things in the cash shop that people want to buy. They've said time and time again they'd never put something in the cash shop that players were forced to buy to enjoy the game. So if there's nothing you want to buy, move along. Hopefuly, they get enough money from the people who do buy things that they can continue adding content. And the B2P model has proven itself with the first game that box sales can go a long way.

 

Edit: Also, they'll more than likely be making large expansions packed with content. You'll likely want to buy these because they'll be worth the price for an addition to an already incredible game.

People "want" to buy a lot of things and to me that does not sound good at all. 

Also GW1 was no where near the size of 2, and with that I assume the cost is much much higher.

Originally posted by Serelisk

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open.

 

 

 

 

You'll never fall out of competetiveness. Maybe you'll be missing out on some sweet armor designs, but the PvE and PvP in this game are not carrots on a stick. Max statistical value gear is easily obtainable in PvE at max level of 80, which they have no reason to raise with each expansion. And in PvP, you get everything you need the moment you enter the PvP lobby, even right after tutorial. :O

So what your saying is there is no progression lol I really don;t get wtf u pvp for in guild wars 2 if not for gear what can u offer me that would make me wanna do pvp if it's not gear? I think alot of people are going to really displeased wiht the pvp side of things it' s being limited way to much so they can be lazy and not have to balance much. Also no raids so whats the point of gearing up in a  regular dungeon sorry but wihtout somesort of progression nobody is going to hang around long after max lvl. RThe reason they get away wiht no trinity is becasue there is no progression at max lvl or the content is super easy.

Anet isn't generous it is clever. F2P/B2P models are more profitable in long run compared to P2P. Not to mention risk free.

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open. 

Sorry, but source?

Going from the GW1 model there will be an expansion about every year or so, and it won't come anywhere near the cost of a $15 a month subscription (12 x $15 = $180 vs. $60), or be required to stay competative (you just won't have access to new classes).

That said I wouldn't mind a more frequent release of new content, though I don't see how you could charge for it unless it was instanced off, which would suck (or not work at all in the case of events).

Either way, as the OP said, you still get a hell of a lot for the box price alone. Also I don't see that it's in their interest to nickle and dime players, as that will only drive them away and give critics fuel for the fire, which in the long run is only going to lead to less sales.

Originally posted by Superduper69

Anet isn't generous it is clever. F2P/B2P models are more profitable in long run compared to P2P. Not to mention risk free.

Depends on cost, say GW2 cost 100million, and they sell 1 million copes at 60USD, .5 Million copies at 40USD and another 1 Million at 20USD.

They just broke even, then there is more content that needs to be developed and what not.

B2P Has is perks but I am skeptical as to wheather or not it will be as profitable as a p2p game in the long run. 

A P2P game with 300K subs makes 27 million every 6 months.

So its kind of a catch 22 for GW2 IMO.

Originally posted by Serelisk

I've been realizing lately that, for some reason, ArenaNet is allergic to money...

• Here, we have a massive triple-A game with an extensive system of over 1500 scalable, chainable, branchable, cooperable, and repeatable dynamic events at launch, spanning 25 incredibly large zones that also hold 6 capital cities and 8 dungeons that each have a story version then 3 challenging explorable mode versions (that's roughly 32 unique dungeon experiences, 24 of them very difficult)...
• Astride that is a personal storyline with branching decisions and more voice acting than any other MMO not named Star Wars: The Old Republic...
• A massive form of 3 faction PvPvE complete with castle sieges, guild owned keeps, supply lines and mercenary camps...
• Completely equalized competetive PvP with hot joinable matches, custom made matches, automated tournaments and a ladder system...

I mean, seriously, it seems to me each one of the things listed here could be it's own game! But they're not. It's all one game, and it'll likely be sold for $60 for the standard edition.

 

Where I'm going with this is, there's no subscription fee. We know this. There's something that was in Guild Wars 1 that I was soo positive would be in GW2 though, and would've had no qualms about it. Skill and item unlock packs for PvP. They could've been gotten through the PvE or PvP through the investment of time, and it didn't take very long either, but nope! In Guild Wars 2, you get EVERYTHING you'll need for competetive PvP right off the back. Then there's server transfers. On most other subscription MMO's, you also have to pay some ridiculous charge to the tune of about $25 or so just to move servers and play with your friends. Not in Guild Wars 2 though, which is something I'm sure they could've gotten away with(you still need to pay to change your home server to play wuv wuh). They even changed their stance on transmutation stones! They're available through karma vendors instead of the cash shop.

 

They've also promised us there will be free content updates after the game is released, such as added dynamic events to older areas, guild halls & personal housing, and possibly some of those other things they've mentioned during game conventions that they were meaning to implement but aren't focused on pre-release, such as an observation mode for competetive PvP like the first game.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm hyping them up to be "good guy ArenaNet" or something, but seriously? And where is NCSoft in all of this? The initial content you're getting in this game looks to be so extremely satisfying for just $60. And everything I listed at the top will only ever have costed you $60... so I reitterate my quandry, is ArenaNet allergic to money?

 

 

 

 

As for the text marked in red......i even remember blizzard promised housing and stuff in vanilla wow.....it never came.

I'll be waiting untill they actually implement these features.

Look at diablo3 now......the game is being stript down to make it ready for launch......so let's wait for launch and not just create more hype about GW2 ok.

Originally posted by zephermarkus

So what your saying is there is no progression lol I really don;t get wtf u pvp for in guild wars 2 if not for gear what can u offer me that would make me wanna do pvp if it's not gear? I think alot of people are going to really displeased wiht the pvp side of things it' s being limited way to much so they can be lazy and not have to balance much. Also no raids so whats the point of gearing up in a  regular dungeon sorry but wihtout somesort of progression nobody is going to hang around long after max lvl. RThe reason they get away wiht no trinity is becasue there is no progression at max lvl or the content is super easy.

Cause true RPG progression = getting better gear

Originally posted by zephermarkus

Originally posted by Serelisk

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open.

 

 

 

 

You'll never fall out of competetiveness. Maybe you'll be missing out on some sweet armor designs, but the PvE and PvP in this game are not carrots on a stick. Max statistical value gear is easily obtainable in PvE at max level of 80, which they have no reason to raise with each expansion. And in PvP, you get everything you need the moment you enter the PvP lobby, even right after tutorial. :O

So what your saying is there is no progression lol I really don;t get wtf u pvp for in guild wars 2 if not for gear what can u offer me that would make me wanna do pvp if it's not gear? I think alot of people are going to really displeased wiht the pvp side of things it' s being limited way to much so they can be lazy and not have to balance much. Also no raids so whats the point of gearing up in a  regular dungeon sorry but wihtout somesort of progression nobody is going to hang around long after max lvl. RThe reason they get away wiht no trinity is becasue there is no progression at max lvl or the content is super easy.

A clear troll post. Even if you arent looking at GW2 this is a troll post. You have no clue how hard or easy the content will be. Why will people continue to play? For fun I would guess. Not everyone needs a shiney new piece of armor every time they look at a mob or kill a person like you clearly do. Infact I bet there are more people out there who just play games if they are having fun than because they "got a cool piece of gear". People actually PvP for the competition as well. Its people like you that WOW clearly ruined with the "carrot on a stick" crap. And dont tell me you never played WOW. You would be lieing and thats not nice.

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Superduper69

Anet isn't generous it is clever. F2P/B2P models are more profitable in long run compared to P2P. Not to mention risk free.

Depends on cost, say GW2 cost 100million, and they sell 1 million copes at 60USD, .5 Million copies at 40USD and another 1 Million at 20USD.

 

They just broke even, then there is more content that needs to be developed and what not.

 

B2P Has is perks but I am skeptical as to wheather or not it will be as profitable as a p2p game in the long run. 

 

A P2P game with 300K subs makes 27 million every 6 months.

 

So its kind of a catch 22 for GW2 IMO.

I hardly doubt that a popular game like  GW2 would just break even. I believe GW2 is going to sell like hot cakes on release. But one thing to remember is that MMOS are long terms business and make profits over time. It is not like buying Battlefield or Call Of Duty for once and then get done with it.

GW has sold 7 million copies i doubt GW2 would do worse than that.

I don`t know how you got those numbers, but I can only say, a purely cosmetic cash shop woul still give them a nice profit.. The better looking that stuff is the more profit obviously. And I have to say, my Girlfriend bought herself that Dwayna costume, it looks really amazing. So with a cosmetic cash shop i think they will be fine, especially if they bring out some content updates that are paid for. It would be nice if they are of similar magnitude as nightfall and factions and EOTN were in GW1. In that case no one would complain about spending the money.

Other games take a monthly fee, have an expensice cash shop... thinking of purely cosmetic pets cosing at least 10-15 bucks and still charge for expansions. So I really hope that arena net has a great success with this game, so that other companies will more or less be forced to rethink their business models.

Originally posted by oubers

As for the text marked in red......i even remember blizzard promised housing and stuff in vanilla wow.....it never came.

I'll be waiting untill they actually implement these features.

Look at diablo3 now......the game is being stript down to make it ready for launch......so let's wait for launch and not just create more hype about GW2 ok.

 

Yeah, I hesitated to bring it up, but it's the notion that the promise is there. That they had the initial intention to give players a boat load of content for free. There's no evidence that they'll try to encroach on our wallets in some criminal way. But they have quite a few reasons to seeing as, like mentioned earlier, this game has no subscription fee, but looks a lot more expensive than Guild Wars 1 and all it's parts combined.

I don't mean to create more hype, but it's the fact that they're selling those 4 things listed that make up the vast majority of the game, and at launch for only $60(assumed price).

If you're comparing Arenanet to Blizzard then you know absolutely nothing about Arenanet.

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by zephermarkus

Originally posted by Serelisk

Originally posted by Diminio

Expansions will be out every 3-4 months to offset the subscription lost.

It will work out the same as a subscription way if you want to keep up with the game and stay competative. 

So rather than take your money by subs they will get if from expansions.

Looking forward to it though, eyes wide open.

 

 

 

 

You'll never fall out of competetiveness. Maybe you'll be missing out on some sweet armor designs, but the PvE and PvP in this game are not carrots on a stick. Max statistical value gear is easily obtainable in PvE at max level of 80, which they have no reason to raise with each expansion. And in PvP, you get everything you need the moment you enter the PvP lobby, even right after tutorial. :O

So what your saying is there is no progression lol I really don;t get wtf u pvp for in guild wars 2 if not for gear what can u offer me that would make me wanna do pvp if it's not gear? I think alot of people are going to really displeased wiht the pvp side of things it' s being limited way to much so they can be lazy and not have to balance much. Also no raids so whats the point of gearing up in a  regular dungeon sorry but wihtout somesort of progression nobody is going to hang around long after max lvl. RThe reason they get away wiht no trinity is becasue there is no progression at max lvl or the content is super easy.

A clear troll post. Even if you arent looking at GW2 this is a troll post. You have no clue how hard or easy the content will be. Why will people continue to play? For fun I would guess. Not everyone needs a shiney new piece of armor every time they look at a mob or kill a person like you clearly do. Infact I bet there are more people out there who just play games if they are having fun than because they "got a cool piece of gear". People actually PvP for the competition as well. Its people like you that WOW clearly ruined with the "carrot on a stick" crap. And dont tell me you never played WOW. You would be lieing and thats not nice.

Been a while since I posted so why not,

In his defense the content in GW2 cannot be difficult due to how the games dynamic events are set up, which from what I have seen they are more akin to pugs then anything, also unlike WoW or RIFT fights can't be all too complex due to the aggro mechanics (Who evers standing closer).

As for the carrot on the stick, I actually agree. Whats wrong with horizontal progression? it keeps people playing longer and was because of the lack of it is why I gave up GW1. If you're playing the (end) game from start then you've already done most of what you'd do anyways.

Am I the only one that sees the flaw in GW2's design? If this game where p2p would any of you be supporting this?

Originally posted by sgel

If you're comparing Arenanet to Blizzard then you know absolutely nothing about Arenanet.

Not being able to keep promises isn't soemthing exclusive to Blizzard. Thats is what he was saying..promises are meant to be broken. And yes a lot of us don't know anything about Anet because they have one CRPG on their resume called GW... but we will know more about Anet once game releases. Some of you guys talk here as if you know Anet personally.

Originally posted by Superduper69

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Superduper69

Anet isn't generous it is clever. F2P/B2P models are more profitable in long run compared to P2P. Not to mention risk free.

Depends on cost, say GW2 cost 100million, and they sell 1 million copes at 60USD, .5 Million copies at 40USD and another 1 Million at 20USD.

 

They just broke even, then there is more content that needs to be developed and what not.

 

B2P Has is perks but I am skeptical as to wheather or not it will be as profitable as a p2p game in the long run. 

 

A P2P game with 300K subs makes 27 million every 6 months.

 

So its kind of a catch 22 for GW2 IMO.

I hardly doubt that a popular game like  GW2 would just break even. I believe GW2 is going to sell like hot cakes on release. But one thing to remember is that MMOS are long terms business and make profits over time. It is not like buying Battlefield or Call Of Duty for once and then get done with it.

GW has sold 7 million copies i doubt GW2 would do worse than that.

GW1 sold 7 million over the corse of what has it been 7 years? and they counted every game in the series counting EOTN IIRC.

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Superduper69

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Superduper69

Anet isn't generous it is clever. F2P/B2P models are more profitable in long run compared to P2P. Not to mention risk free.

Depends on cost, say GW2 cost 100million, and they sell 1 million copes at 60USD, .5 Million copies at 40USD and another 1 Million at 20USD.

 

They just broke even, then there is more content that needs to be developed and what not.

 

B2P Has is perks but I am skeptical as to wheather or not it will be as profitable as a p2p game in the long run. 

 

A P2P game with 300K subs makes 27 million every 6 months.

 

So its kind of a catch 22 for GW2 IMO.

I hardly doubt that a popular game like  GW2 would just break even. I believe GW2 is going to sell like hot cakes on release. But one thing to remember is that MMOS are long terms business and make profits over time. It is not like buying Battlefield or Call Of Duty for once and then get done with it.

GW has sold 7 million copies i doubt GW2 would do worse than that.

GW1 sold 7 million over the corse of what has it been 7 years? and they counted every game in the series counting EOTN IIRC.

Yes over the period of seven years and it was GW. So you can imagine the sales of GW2 and its expansions. Also cash shop will be lot more bigger with lot more choices than GW this time.

Originally posted by Serelisk

I've been realizing lately that, for some reason, ArenaNet is allergic to money...

• Here, we have a massive triple-A game with an extensive system of over 1500 scalable, chainable, branchable, cooperable, and repeatable dynamic events at launch, spanning 25 incredibly large zones that also hold 6 capital cities and 8 dungeons that each have a story version then 3 challenging explorable mode versions (that's roughly 32 unique dungeon experiences, 24 of them very difficult)...
• Astride that is a personal storyline with branching decisions and more voice acting than any other MMO not named Star Wars: The Old Republic...
• A massive form of 3 faction PvPvE complete with castle sieges, guild owned keeps, supply lines and mercenary camps...
• Completely equalized competetive PvP with hot joinable matches, custom made matches, automated tournaments and a ladder system...

I mean, seriously, it seems to me each one of the things listed here could be it's own game! But they're not. It's all one game, and it'll likely be sold for $60 for the standard edition.

 

Where I'm going with this is, there's no subscription fee. We know this. There's something that was in Guild Wars 1 that I was soo positive would be in GW2 though, and would've had no qualms about it. Skill and item unlock packs for PvP. They could've been gotten through the PvE or PvP through the investment of time, and it didn't take very long either, but nope! In Guild Wars 2, you get EVERYTHING you'll need for competetive PvP right off the back. Then there's server transfers. On most other subscription MMO's, you also have to pay some ridiculous charge to the tune of about $25 or so just to move servers and play with your friends. Not in Guild Wars 2 though, which is something I'm sure they could've gotten away with(you still need to pay to change your home server to play wuv wuh). They even changed their stance on transmutation stones! They're available through karma vendors instead of the cash shop.

 

They've also promised us there will be free content updates after the game is released, such as added dynamic events to older areas, guild halls & personal housing, and possibly some of those other things they've mentioned during game conventions that they were meaning to implement but aren't focused on pre-release, such as an observation mode for competetive PvP like the first game.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm hyping them up to be "good guy ArenaNet" or something, but seriously? And where is NCSoft in all of this? The initial content you're getting in this game looks to be so extremely satisfying for just $60. And everything I listed at the top will only ever have costed you $60... so I reitterate my quandry, is ArenaNet allergic to money?

 

 

 

 

To be honest I think they owe me money as of now, as I gave them good money for that travesty called GW1, which was in my opinion the worst MMO ever created.  Every minute I played GW1 it was a painful unenjoyable experience, as I stared at the most horrible UI ever created, at a MMO with only instances and no real persistance, static MOBs, invisible walls everywhere, no ability to jump, etc.

If they do provide extra value this time, then I'd say we are even...

Now I will say GW2 features seem pretty cool, and I do have some hope for it, but I don't have nearly as much confidence in ANet that they can deliver.  They have yet to deliver an enjoyable game for me at least...