Originally posted by brutality123

Originally posted by Littlebomb

so people are going to keep playing a game that won't have these basic systems for another 3 months.

it does have basic systems. These are extras

 

in what way is a customizable UI basic... or dual spec  or cross realm lfg tool?  none of them are actually needed to complete the game.

 

yes, I can wait 3 months..  The lack of all 3 of them are not stopping me playing the entire game

Well as a current player I have to disagree with you on custom UI not being basic because, well, it SHOULD be basic MMO101. No the lack of basic UI customazion does not take away from the game but it sure as hell would make it better.

My anger is STILL directed at the whole "Hi-rez was a bug" lie. Until we get what is STILL shown in ads and reviews and was present in Beta I cannot and willnot defend EA on anything else that SHOULD have been in at launch. Blind haters and whateverthefuck these forums are full of not included! I will call them out to the best of my abilites, as long as nameless Mods don't take offence.

Originally posted by brutality123

Originally posted by noncley

Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

they are not basic features if that helps and in fact is the answer to your question.

People have been completing content since a week or so after the games launch. Indeed some have quit stating there was nothing left in the game for them to do. This does not sound like the game is crippled

lol.   Wrong.   Two of the three are common as dirt and are present even in low-budget F2P model developed MMOs.   

I haven't followed Ultima Online in years, but I have a friend who still played it on his office computer between visits until 2009...   He had a customizable UI...   Oh, since 2006?  2007?    Maybe earlier...   I know it was a long, long time ago.    My thing wasn't so much in caring about his UI, but rolling my eyes his still playing a 2D game when there were so many games so much better...    If he'd just put the money into a decent laptop he wouldn't be stuck playing UI...

As for dual-spec...    Most the MMOs I've played haven't used skill trees.    But those few I have that do...  Respec and dual-spec accomplish the same thing, respec taking just a few minutes longer in any well-set-up MMO like LOTRO.   And it gives one a nice break right before the boss-fight while the LM is re-specing for DPS after CC.     And every MMO I've played, exept for SWTOR, made it so that if didn't dual-spec, respec was easy and convienent, not hidden God knows where like with sWTOR.

Originally posted by Alders

Dual spec is a pretty big deal when everyone knows there's never enough tanks.  Having to spend upwards of 100k to respec just to run a dungeon is not something many people are willing to do.  It's oversights such as this on BW's part that leaves me baffled.

It wouldn't have been bad if they'd have done it like LOTRO or some other MMOs.

You pay a small amount of money to change a few attributes.   There are bards everywhere that allow you to do it...   It's easy as pie.   Never had a problem.   The Lore-masters would need to respec from CC to DPS for the boss fight...  No problem.   We'd all chip in a hundred silver pieces each week to cover their out-of-pockets (to be fair) and he'd exit the raid instance, walk over to the trainer (located in every non-starter town) and get it taken care of pronto.   The rest of us could take bio breaks, get a glass of water, whatever...   Five minutes later, we're review the boss-fight strategy and buffing...

But, no.   It's endless travel and constantly escalting fees.   Wasn't worth it...   Fortuantely, I spec'd tank from the beginning so it was not an issue for me.   But others...    You could hit a 100K...

Hidden god-knows where?

Tried opening your mouth & asking for directions ?

It's even in a fairly logical place & has a bloody great sign over it.

Class Trainer section of the fleet in the same bay as the guild registrar.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by brutality123

Originally posted by noncley

Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

they are not basic features if that helps and in fact is the answer to your question.

People have been completing content since a week or so after the games launch. Indeed some have quit stating there was nothing left in the game for them to do. This does not sound like the game is crippled

lol.   Wrong.   Two of the three are common as dirt and are present even in low-budget F2P model developed MMOs.   

I haven't followed Ultima Online in years, but I have a friend who still played it on his office computer between visits until 2009...   He had a customizable UI...   Oh, since 2006?  2007?    Maybe earlier...   I know it was a long, long time ago.    My thing wasn't so much in caring about his UI, but rolling my eyes his still playing a 2D game when there were so many games so much better...    If he'd just put the money into a decent laptop he wouldn't be stuck playing UI...

 

As for dual-spec...    Most the MMOs I've played haven't used skill trees.    But those few I have that do...  Respec and dual-spec accomplish the same thing, respec taking just a few minutes longer in any well-set-up MMO like LOTRO.   And it gives one a nice break right before the boss-fight while the LM is re-specing for DPS after CC.     And every MMO I've played, exept for SWTOR, made it so that if didn't dual-spec, respec was easy and convienent, not hidden God knows where like with sWTOR.

I was assuming basic meant basic rather than common   my bad

Originally posted by Skaara55

Originally posted by dubyahite
Company has to launch the game at some point. You can't develop every feature out of every mmo ever and make your launch date.


That being said, these features are expected in a modern game an they don't have a whole lot of time to get them implemented before people start freaking out.

Thes games are very complex systems. People often say things like "it would only take five minutes of coding!" or "the devs are just lazy" or "it's just a couple of if statements!" these people could not be farther from the truth. They have no idea what the internal development process is like and how complex these systems really are.


Even the simplest of features or fixes can have far reaching consequences when it is rushed or poorly implemented. It can cause bugs in completely unrelated systems or break the game in many ways. You need look no further than the Soa bug fixes Bioware has been doing. They are rushe and poorly tested and they always cause more bugs.


TL;DR: it's not as simple as you think.

Classic apologist here folks, just move along.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by dubyahite
Company has to launch the game at some point. You can't develop every feature out of every mmo ever and make your launch date.


That being said, these features are expected in a modern game an they don't have a whole lot of time to get them implemented before people start freaking out.

Thes games are very complex systems. People often say things like "it would only take five minutes of coding!" or "the devs are just lazy" or "it's just a couple of if statements!" these people could not be farther from the truth. They have no idea what the internal development process is like and how complex these systems really are.


Even the simplest of features or fixes can have far reaching consequences when it is rushed or poorly implemented. It can cause bugs in completely unrelated systems or break the game in many ways. You need look no further than the Soa bug fixes Bioware has been doing. They are rushe and poorly tested and they always cause more bugs.


TL;DR: it's not as simple as you think.

Truth. This is it.

yea this is true,UI for example,who the heck even needs one? theres no point to test this kind of stuff with people who are testin game in alpha / beta,theres no point to ask what do they like about it,bleh thats so last season..

and thats why swtor is so cool  game from the future,they tested everything and theres no bugs at all because of this.

too late for me.... :(

Originally posted by dubyahite
@forumpvp

Except you misse the part of my post where I mentioned their rushed and poorly implemented Soa bug fixes that keep breaking the fight even more.

Those "fixes" aren't receiving any testing on the PTS and they are releasing them every week. Every week Soa gets more and more buggy.


Your trollish response betrays the fact that you didn't even read my post before responding.


Nice try, but you missed the point.

what try??i didnt read anyone elses posts either?just stated some facts to someones post,i dont even know was it yours.

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by Skaara55

Originally posted by dubyahite
Company has to launch the game at some point. You can't develop every feature out of every mmo ever and make your launch date.


That being said, these features are expected in a modern game an they don't have a whole lot of time to get them implemented before people start freaking out.

Thes games are very complex systems. People often say things like "it would only take five minutes of coding!" or "the devs are just lazy" or "it's just a couple of if statements!" these people could not be farther from the truth. They have no idea what the internal development process is like and how complex these systems really are.


Even the simplest of features or fixes can have far reaching consequences when it is rushed or poorly implemented. It can cause bugs in completely unrelated systems or break the game in many ways. You need look no further than the Soa bug fixes Bioware has been doing. They are rushe and poorly tested and they always cause more bugs.


TL;DR: it's not as simple as you think.

Classic apologist here folks, just move along.

 

Ok, then tell me how I'm wrong instea of throwing insults. You have nothing to add to the conversation and I doubt you even have a basic understanding of what goes into making these games. Explain the development process to me if I'm such an apologist. The truth is that I do have an understanding of what a huge development project like an mmo requires. Come back here when you have some real information to contribute to this conversation an let me know how I'm wrong. I'm dying to hear it. Should give me a good laugh.

Specilizations for dueling? DO TELL!

The game has numerous issues we all know that, some go as far back as alpha, like the UI, the LFG tool has two seperate camps, to me it is not game breaking IF there is a healthy population. The UI on the otherhand is something that is a basic feature and honestly it sucks. 

As another has posted SoA keeps getting worse each patch, the QC is horrible, just look at all the Ilum fixes, it got worse and worse each patch until now, but no one is on Ilum anymore lol they all left. We could talk about broken quests, or Space on rails, Reverse Engineering that is not working as intended, the uselessness of any crafting etc etc, but we all know about them.

Dual Spes is a whole other issue compounded by the fact of the way they made the ACs, but to not have the option at a reasonable cost to respec in the game is way beyond me. See these little things drive customers away no matter how good you think the storyline and questing are, little things make a quality game and they are severly lacking in this game.

I beta tested this game and soo many features that were in and worked are out, and features that did not work are in go figure, why oh why I bought the CE is beyond me now, I really thought that BW would pull a rabbit out of the hat with the final build and get the high rez graphics in, the armor matching, a better UI, PvP fixes that we all knew about but it didn't, such a waste.

Server merges are next, and after that who knows the future of this game, but with 2-3 really nice MMOs getting ready for release it does not look good. The fun factor post 50 is what is really going to kill this game because it offers nothing new nor does it better then anyother MMO out currently.

Ya no kidding , only reason people complain about such petty things is cause they are not having fun, cause there is much bigger flaws in the game.

So of these features people expect is way too, people still want to compare a new game to one thats been out for years and expect them to be on par for features and content.... but cant have it all.

Like seriously if you are quitting a game cause it does not have the UI you desire, there is bigger problems going on in your head.

Originally posted by Entropy14

Ya no kidding , only reason people complain about such petty things is cause they are not having fun, cause there is much bigger flaws in the game.

 

 

So of these features people expect is way too, people still want to compare a new game to one thats been out for years and expect them to be on par for features and content.... but cant have it all.

 

Like seriously if you are quitting a game cause it does not have the UI you desire, there is bigger problems going on in your head.

 

 

 

Originally posted by noncley

Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

    Maybe it is just my experience, but the LFG tool, at least when implemented cross server, does ruin community in an MMO.  Way to many people more than willing to screw everyone else over if the possible repercussions are low (ie - no one will team with them anymore).  Kept to a single server though it does work pretty well.  But not any better than calling out in chat.

    Duel Specs are nice.  Lazy and completely unnecessary, but they are nice.  Personally though, I like my choices having consequences.  If you want to change things on the fly, go play a SPG where you can "save" every time an important decision comes up and you can't make yourself live with your choice.

    Customizable UI?  Another nice one.  Not really necessary in most games and this one is pretty good.  Still, I would like to eventually be able to adjust the size of my UI and maybe even move stuff around a little.  Right now though, I am having so much fun in the game that I really don't miss it.

    Personally, it seems like you are just looking for things to not like (and therefore complain about), not actually have a legitimate problem.  Especially since NONE of the features are actually standards in the MMO gaming industry.  As a matter of fact, most games don't even come out with this stuff until well after a year from release.  So with BioWare getting this stuff in before the 6 month mark, I am impressed. 

Originally posted by Skaara55

Originally posted by Entropy14

Ya no kidding , only reason people complain about such petty things is cause they are not having fun, cause there is much bigger flaws in the game. 

So of these features people expect is way too, people still want to compare a new game to one thats been out for years and expect them to be on par for features and content.... but cant have it all. 

Like seriously if you are quitting a game cause it does not have the UI you desire, there is bigger problems going on in your head. 

 I would agree with this. I think the game is honestly that bad that people just have huge amounts of issues with it but when commenting on issues they tend to focus on what is bothering them the most at that time. For me I think it is because they designed a game for soccer moms instead of gamers. I would itemize the problems this game has but it's not even worth it. I'll check back in a year when they finish making the game, maybe.

    Sweet!  I hope you are right Skaara55, because the soccer moms are a lot more mature AND fun to play with.  Not to mention reliable and more likely to actually think about other people when teaming.  List me for one person praying you are right!

Originally posted by GMan3

   the soccer moms are a lot more mature AND fun to play with

They still don't swoon when I roll up to them in my pimped-out civic, though

Originally posted by noncley

Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

Well some features arent in propably because EA pushed the release for Xmas11 and I bet the dev team had to put every resource out there in making the game playable for launch, so they propably had most of the team working on anything else than features like this.

However, I agree these basic features should have been at the launch. These are features that does not harm the game in any way and Bioware should have known better. Non-xrealm group finder and dual specs can only do good for the game, someone might whine that it's not social to use group finder, well it's hell of a lot better than not being able to put a group together AT ALL with the current system where you dont even have galaxy wide LFG channel, and dual specs have no downside at all, none, it just provides more people being able to fill more roles for groups which means again higher odds of being able to put a group together. I know I would heal from time to time if only I could swap my spec without having to visit skill mentor.

Bioware sure did fail just like any other mmorpg release considering first impressions, they target an audience that is used to these core features without delivering those features in their own game. Soon they have these features in place, and some folks might come back after this stuff is being implemented, but many have gave their final judgement already. It's (not) funny how history repeats it self time after time, it's like these companies are blind and deaf or just stupid enough not to understand this.

I'm still playing the game, and enjoying a lot of it, but I dont do group stuff basically at all unless some friends of mine are online because the grouping mechanics (total lack of them) are so anti-social.

Originally posted by Khaeros

Originally posted by GMan3

   the soccer moms are a lot more mature AND fun to play with

 

They still don't swoon when I roll up to them in my pimped-out civic, though