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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  »  Know what I miss in mmo's? Grouping.

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124 posts found
  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1151

 
OP  2/24/12 1:16:30 PM#1

Before you say "well mmo's these days have partying/grouping" I mean grouping where its required outside of dungeons to level up etc. The last game that I have played that was like this was ff11, I've played pretty much every mmo thats come out for the last 11 or 12 years. Most of them were bascally single player games with a glorifed chat room till the end. Recently ff11 lost this aspect to it when they made it piss easy to level, you still can group but now you can solo nearly as fast (least outside of abbysea). Personally I think the point to a mmo should be partying and interaction as its main focus, sadly most just have grouping at endgame or in dungeons, because its just not needed anywhere else.

Am I the only one who misses this aspect of mmo's? I've felt mmo's have bascally become glorifed single player games, with worthless "endgame" and no real goal to hit max level. What happened to the old mmo's? where it was about the journey and not the destination like it is now. I can't be the only one who misses those times... Also WoWtards and current gen mmorpg players please don't bother replying because you'll have no damned idea what I am talking about in the older mmo's, this is for the oldbies who have started playing mmo's way before wow.

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  Cod_Eye

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1010

2/24/12 1:52:25 PM#2

I agree with you to an extent, I played XI and was the best MMO experience I've had, If you didnt group up then you wasnt going to get far, the added advantage to this, it kept the asshats away, because if you didnt behave you was out of the group and you would find it diffcult to get another group if you continued being an asshat.  As a PvE game it was a great agame and a pity we never seen anymore games like it, and a bigger pity that SE didnt learn from it with its abyssmal FFXIV.  The disadvantage it lost a lot of players because they couldnt get to level cap in 1 week like most MMO's that are released these days.

  Khaeros

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 463

2/24/12 1:53:04 PM#3

Yeah, I do miss waiting for a defensive fighter and healer to join my CIS group so I can finish the last part, then finding one but realizing that they have no clue what CIS is, so having to bring them in and start from the beginning.  When they got to the point that I am on, we all realize that the healer is now level 26 so they have no motivation to continue the quest line (minimum level 28 to grab), and they quit.  I hit the channels for guild and a grouping userchat and we get another great volunteer, but it seems like they haven't heard of this anomaly called CIS and so we bring them in and..

 

Good times, those.  Good times.

 

 

Or how about in some of the older MUDs (is that old enough for you?) spamming up the global OOC chat waiting for a nice guy to volunteer being in top formation and taking all the hits?  I especially loved playing priests, clerics, or otherwise healers in MUDs - highly enjoyable gameplay, typing 'look <buddy>' for all 8 of my friends and waiting for one of those to say "This person is injured" and then typing 'cast 'heal' <buddy>' which I bound to an alias named heal <buddy>, then waiting for the next round of big damage before doing it again.  Then we had other sorts of fun with mobs that would use more than just autoattacks - aoe attacks and doublestriking made my job really fun (and my log look like this:)

 

look buddy2

heal buddy2

heal buddy2

look buddy2

look buddy3

heal buddy3

curepoison buddy3

heal buddy3

look buddy1

"X launches a flurry of attacks at Buddy2!"

"X hits Buddy2, causing a bone-crushing sound!"

"X hits Buddy2, causing a bone-crushing sound!"

"X hits Buddy2, causing a bone-crushing sound!"

"X hits Buddy2, causing a bone-crushing sound!"

heal buddy2

"Buddy2 has died!"

 

Of course, if I never played a healer, then we wouldn't ever be able to progress in anywhere besides the 'newbie area for non-newbies'.. I wonder why people didn't really play healers in that game! Hm!

 

 

No, you're not the only one who misses it.  And I play both current gen MMOs and MUDs at the same time, so do I count for your little disclaimer telling me not to post?

 

Well, too late, I guess.

 

 

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

2/24/12 2:01:20 PM#4

Pro tip Khaeros, STOP PLAYING THEMEPARKS!

 

What? !!!

Quests with no stages?

Anyone at any level can join in?

The loot is always valuable?

Not having outdated UIs?

 

Where could one find this magical world of unicorns?

In a sandbox of course!

 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13319

2/24/12 2:11:21 PM#5

The problem is when people who only have half an hour or an hour to play are forced to spend half of that time looking for a group before they can do anything.  If a game is only really playable by people who can set aside chunks of hours at a time every single time they play, then that's a very small potential customer base.  Far too many games assumed that players would magically find a group, without putting any real thought into how players would find a group--or in some cases, actively trying to make it harder for players to find a group.

Instead, what you need to do is to take a good grouping system like that of Spiral Knights, and then put it into a real MMORPG rather than a somewhat, kinda, not really an MMORPG like Spiral Knights.  And then you can require grouping without breaking the game.

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

2/24/12 2:14:14 PM#6
Originally posted by Quizzical

The problem is when people who only have half an hour or an hour to play are forced to spend half of that time looking for a group before they can do anything.  If a game is only really playable by people who can set aside chunks of hours at a time every single time they play, then that's a very small potential customer base.  Far too many games assumed that players would magically find a group, without putting any real thought into how players would find a group--or in some cases, actively trying to make it harder for players to find a group.

Instead, what you need to do is to take a good grouping system like that of Spiral Knights, and then put it into a real MMORPG rather than a somewhat, kinda, not really an MMORPG like Spiral Knights.  And then you can require grouping without breaking the game.

The solution for those people? Play Diablo or WoW.

  Khaeros

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 463

2/24/12 2:19:05 PM#7
Originally posted by Cuathon

In a sandbox of course!

 

You mean there's one where the developers aren't crazy, unable to communicate, liars, or a combination of all three?

  Reizla

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 3032

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

2/24/12 2:19:12 PM#8

I agree with OP completely. Moet (newer) MMO's lack grouping big-time and by now I've given up on finding groups in the 'open world' by now *is sad*

Lineage II (before the Goddess of Destruction) used to have some interesting party area's (both full party and smaller party) both in the open field as well as in dungeons (also the non-instanced ones), but with the coming of GoD that's kinda gone as well, unless you're 85+ and go to Harnak or ar 90+ the Gardens of Genesis or do the (daily) dungeons. The rest is all solo now :(

On the other hand, Aion still has area's that's a forced party area, which you have to go through to progress. And here we have a design flaw at lower levels where you hardly can go through them because of the lack of players around your level (I hope this problem will be solved soon when Aion goes F2P)

But in general, there are little to no 'open world' parties required anymore these days in MMORPG's. At times I'm wondering where the Mass of MMORPG has gone...

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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

2/24/12 2:19:46 PM#9
Originally posted by Siveria

Before you say "well mmo's these days have partying/grouping" I mean grouping where its required outside of dungeons to level up etc. The last game that I have played that was like this was ff11, I've played pretty much every mmo thats come out for the last 11 or 12 years. Most of them were bascally single player games with a glorifed chat room till the end. Recently ff11 lost this aspect to it when they made it piss easy to level, you still can group but now you can solo nearly as fast (least outside of abbysea). Personally I think the point to a mmo should be partying and interaction as its main focus, sadly most just have grouping at endgame or in dungeons, because its just not needed anywhere else.

Am I the only one who misses this aspect of mmo's? I've felt mmo's have bascally become glorifed single player games, with worthless "endgame" and no real goal to hit max level. What happened to the old mmo's? where it was about the journey and not the destination like it is now. I can't be the only one who misses those times... Also WoWtards and current gen mmorpg players please don't bother replying because you'll have no damned idea what I am talking about in the older mmo's, this is for the oldbies who have started playing mmo's way before wow.

You feel wrong. I level up several toons using LFD. Now tell me how that is a SINGLE player game. Last time I count, there were FIVE OF US inside a dungeon.

And no, i don't miss it at all. If i want to group (and that is often), i can either group with guildies, or LFD .. no hassle, fast group. And if i want to solo, there is always the world out there.

It is a mistake to assume there is a single POINT of the MMO that players need to adhere to. It is all about choices and different play style. People are different, and they do whatever they want in the game. You need to accept this basic human nature.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

2/24/12 2:21:23 PM#10
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Quizzical

The problem is when people who only have half an hour or an hour to play are forced to spend half of that time looking for a group before they can do anything.  If a game is only really playable by people who can set aside chunks of hours at a time every single time they play, then that's a very small potential customer base.  Far too many games assumed that players would magically find a group, without putting any real thought into how players would find a group--or in some cases, actively trying to make it harder for players to find a group.

Instead, what you need to do is to take a good grouping system like that of Spiral Knights, and then put it into a real MMORPG rather than a somewhat, kinda, not really an MMORPG like Spiral Knights.  And then you can require grouping without breaking the game.

The solution for those people? Play Diablo or WoW.

Why do you think Diablo and WOW are so popular? Of course they do.

Now if developers think that is a big piece of the market, the design choices are obvious. Do not require players to adhere to your schedule, be flexible for them.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1574

2/24/12 2:21:30 PM#11

GW2 seens like it could strike a happy medium between the two. When someone else is in the area doing the same thing you are, you form an adhoc group. Sure, you're not grouped, but the dynamic event will scale because the both of you are there. It's not forced grouping, but it doesn't detract from grouping either.

My wife and I have been leveling together in WoW on the alliance side (we're both horde normally). The thing I have found is that not only does grouping slow down your leveling rate, but there are also quests where one of us will interact with a NPC and the other can't do a thing with him for the duration. So we're having to repeat certain steps of quests. That's really annoying.

Grouping should NEVER be detrimental in a mmo, from a mechanics stand point, it should always add something to the experience. That's what's been lost when most mmos became solo friendly themeparks.

I really hope the GW2 system actually works the way they intend it to, and if so, that other developers will catch on.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

2/24/12 2:23:48 PM#12

I'm with ya, OP.  I miss grouping and just enjoying the social dynamic of that AND the combat dynamic.  Somehow it all just used to be more...I don't know...fun.

However, let me add this....

Finding a group and doing anything in modern day MMOs is just NOT FUN. If you're playing a game that does it through chat channels, you get ignored.  If you're playing a game that has queues for groups, then the group usually has no reason to talk to each other, they just want to rush through and complete their objective.  There's really not much in the way of exploration anymore either.  I remember running around with groups of people just exploring and finding stuff and running into mobs to kill and finding scenic places in games, etc.

 

People have become much less social in games. Seems they're doing their socializing on Facebook or something and no longer care for the social aspects of games.  It's sad really.  Maybe those of us who miss this need to form a guild for TSW and/or GW2 or whatever and then hang together like we WANT to do?

 

I'm playing SWTOR right now and there are heroics and flashpoints that I've had in my log since I started playing.  I might be able to find a group to do them, but with this game....I just don't really care about them, so the non-grouping is my own fault in SWTOR.  I don't ask, so I don't group.  I really bought SWTOR thinking it was going to be a single player RPG really, more or less, so....I haven't been disappointed, because that's how I've played it really.  I've grouped 3 times now, I think...in a month of playing off and on.  /shrug  It doesn't FEEL like a grouping game to me....THAT part is Bioware, not me.  But regardless....I do miss grouping and socializing and fighting together.

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  Requiem6

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/09
Posts: 243

2/24/12 2:24:12 PM#13

I think if you search there's still some of game like this.

The problem is, they have low playerbase.

 

Because the majority of gamer aren't interested in this.

If the majority aren't interested, the majority of game won't be like this since game want to be sucessful and make money. (Can't blame them either).

 

In MMO there's a big "Community problem" alot of the time. By that I mean either poeple just beeing more immature, or can't take jokes, put trolls and normal people in the bucket. So many different people. It's not always easy to find people that fit together.

Plus, after that you have the "wait time". Finding people to level up, because YOU HAVE to group is boring. GW2 and TSW this years kinda try to remedy this with dynamic events and more open world. So you can do exp-event and stuff with others more easy. But in the end, you will still be able to Solo everything pretty easily and won't need to group.

 

In the end I would the main problem might be you. The problem might actually be the players of today. I mean so many time you can just talk in general chat in any games saying : Hey I'm looking for someone to level-up, exp, grind, quest (whatever you want to do). I'm 100% sure you'll be able find someone. Not every time, depand of the game you play and their playerbase. But now instead of everything beeing serve to you on a plate (forcing to group up, so soloplayer still want to party) you need to, yourself, find a group. 

  Hauken

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/06
Posts: 650

2/24/12 2:32:50 PM#14

I just rediscovered an awsome true multiplayer game, with grouping and awsome PvP. Its called Risk. No problem finding good PvP and backstabbing allies.

IMO its better than all MMO these days. Really sad...

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  Reizla

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 3032

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

2/24/12 2:34:48 PM#15
Originally posted by just1opinion

Finding a group and doing anything in modern day MMOs is just NOT FUN. If you're playing a game that does it through chat channels, you get ignored.  If you're playing a game that has queues for groups, then the group usually has no reason to talk to each other, they just want to rush through and complete their objective.  There's really not much in the way of exploration anymore either.  I remember running around with groups of people just exploring and finding stuff and running into mobs to kill and finding scenic places in games, etc.

Don't remind me... I'm playing WoW again the last 4 weeks (yes, no kidding), leveling my warlock up from 30 or so till 74 now (slacker!) doing lots of random dungeons. In all those dungeons I've done, only 2 I've had a fun party with where there was quite some chat and no flaming at the healer/tank. But in general, you're really reflecting the actual thing that's happening with random parties these days. Honestly, can't wait to hit 85 and start raiding with the guild (couple of RL friends in it)

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  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

2/24/12 2:40:34 PM#16

Blame quest grinding and instancing.

 

The last time I grouped just for the hell of it was Vanguard. That game got grouping right. I found random people inside dungeons (non instanced) and just joined up with them to push deeper into the scarier parts. An experience can form dynamically just like that. A dungeon doesn't have to be a linear scripted gauntlet barely big enough for 5 people. You can make it a deep massive complex with all sorts of secrets like old MMOs did. Got a group of 5? Explore the upper levels. Solo? Stick near the entrance. Maybe you're exploring and you join in with a larger group, now you can push into the inner sanctum and get at the really challenging stuff... 

 

Man, Vanguard, DAoC... just finding other random people and talking while hunting monsters and exploring. No quest grinding, no grouping for just 1 step in a quest chain and then warping to an instance. A real MMO experience. Contrary to popular belief, it was enitrely possible to level alone. It  just wasn't as rewarding, and it shouldn't be. Grouping is harder than soloing, doing something harder should give you a better reward.

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1690

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2/24/12 2:40:43 PM#17

I love grouping but can do without waiting upwards of 8 hours for an invite to one like i did many times in FFXI.  My own fault for leveling a Dark Knight first i suppose.  The process to hit max level took me 8 months, which was still pretty quick back then.

 

Of course i next decided to level a bard and hit max level in 3 weeks.  Gotta love spam invites as you're logging on because bard was mandatory for everything.

 

Grouping yay.  Waiting, no thanks.

 

  Kyleran

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Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19008

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2/24/12 2:47:42 PM#18
Originally posted by just1opinion

I'm with ya, OP.  I miss grouping and just enjoying the social dynamic of that AND the combat dynamic.  Somehow it all just used to be more...I don't know...fun.

However, let me add this....

Finding a group and doing anything in modern day MMOs is just NOT FUN. If you're playing a game that does it through chat channels, you get ignored.  If you're playing a game that has queues for groups, then the group usually has no reason to talk to each other, they just want to rush through and complete their objective.  There's really not much in the way of exploration anymore either.  I remember running around with groups of people just exploring and finding stuff and running into mobs to kill and finding scenic places in games, etc.

 

People have become much less social in games. Seems they're doing their socializing on Facebook or something and no longer care for the social aspects of games.  It's sad really.  Maybe those of us who miss this need to form a guild for TSW and/or GW2 or whatever and then hang together like we WANT to do?

 

I'm playing SWTOR right now and there are heroics and flashpoints that I've had in my log since I started playing.  I might be able to find a group to do them, but with this game....I just don't really care about them, so the non-grouping is my own fault in SWTOR.  I don't ask, so I don't group.  I really bought SWTOR thinking it was going to be a single player RPG really, more or less, so....I haven't been disappointed, because that's how I've played it really.  I've grouped 3 times now, I think...in a month of playing off and on.  /shrug  It doesn't FEEL like a grouping game to me....THAT part is Bioware, not me.  But regardless....I do miss grouping and socializing and fighting together.

You are echoing the thoughts in my head, I've been playing SWTOR the same as you, and while I could group, I even see opportunities to group flash by, but I'm just not incentived enough to bother.

I too miss the days when it was really sort of forced upon you, with a combination of mechanics that both punished you for failing to group and rewarded you for taking the time to put one together.

Throw in some decent downtime mechanics to give folks a chance to talk rather than fight, fight, fight while grouping and it was a much more enjoyable experience than I find today.

Also people were more patient, you rarely saw posts such as I've seen in this thread about people not knowing how to do a certain fight, back in early DAOC we routinely took new folks under our wing and showed them the ropes, but in all fairness, combat in that title was unlike today's "dancing with the stars" scripted routines where everyone has to play their part right on queue.

 

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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

2/24/12 3:12:06 PM#19
Originally posted by Requiem6

 

Because the majority of gamer aren't interested in this.

If the majority aren't interested, the majority of game won't be like this since game want to be sucessful and make money. (Can't blame them either).

Plus, after that you have the "wait time". Finding people to level up, because YOU HAVE to group is boring. GW2 and TSW this years kinda try to remedy this with dynamic events and more open world. So you can do exp-event and stuff with others more easy. But in the end, you will still be able to Solo everything pretty easily and won't need to group.

 

Basically this.

I am not interested in WAITING for a game. I am interested in PLAYING a game.

I am not interested in chatting during dead time of a game. If i want to chat, i go to a chat room.

My in-game communicaton mostly sticks to the task at hand (i.e. killing the boss). I will occasionally chat with guildies but a MMO is not a glorified chat-room.

  Slukjan

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/11
Posts: 238

2/24/12 3:17:30 PM#20
I miss the good ole days of EQ. When grouping was both more fun and more rewarding than soloing. I wish there was a modern game that had the same dynamic. Questing solo all the time is boring and makes it feel like a single player rpg. Maybe there should be a game that has mostly group quests and only a few solo quests. And have mobs that are hard to kill solo. It just gets old being so powerful that you can slap down 6 or 7 mobs with having to rest or be afraid of dying. When soloing in WoW I never had to rest...I could just chain kill mobs and never be afraid of dying. Some of the most fun I had playing EQ was being part of a group and finding a nice camp where the pulls were constantly coming in with short breaks for mana in between. People would talk and joke. The exp would be far better then soloing. It was just so much more fun. Today's games don't require a group until end game. And then it's just the same dungeons over and over with very little dialogue going on. Just clear the content asap. Some game developer will eventually catch on to this a build a game more focused on group play...as it should be.
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