Without a holy trinity, everyone is basically self healing dps. What sort of group dynamics does that make for? While I am interested in this game, if that's what it is(and I am hoping that it isn't) it will be the most boring mmo ever. 

You still have Control, Support, and Damage.  It will not be a zerg fest.  Its just that everyone can be anything.  So you wont need to wait for a healer / tank because anyone can be a healer or dps or a tank.

Originally posted by KingGator

Without a holy trinity, everyone is basically self healing dps. What sort of group dynamics does that make for? While I am interested in this game, if that's what it is(and I am hoping that it isn't) it will be the most boring mmo ever. 

 oh so its more boring than spending hours LFG ? what can actual be more boring than the holy trinity? think about it..

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by KingGator

Without a holy trinity, everyone is basically self healing dps. What sort of group dynamics does that make for? While I am interested in this game, if that's what it is(and I am hoping that it isn't) it will be the most boring mmo ever. 

 oh so its more boring than spending hours LFG ? what can actual be more boring than the holy trinity? think about it..

The holy trinity is a valid system; however, it has been done so many times in MMORPGs that it is refreshing trying alternative systems. 

I think people assume that because of the hybrid classes, that anyone can tank, which is not true.  Thieves, for example, have shown in Youtube videos that they aren't nearly as likely to be able to stand up front as well as say, a Guardian or Elementalist in Earth attunement.  And that same Ele in fire attunement becomes squishy.  

What is the group dynamic?

Be skilled or die.  There's still the potential for a group to fail, but it won't be because of one person not having the right gear or spec.  It will actually be a group dynamic for once instead of tank/heal dynamic - not dynamic - (ie: a tank and healer can solo anything given enough time and HP, DPS never truly mattered in past MMOs, hence gimmicks like Enrage timers).  You have to adapt quickly and dodge, dodge, dodge.  If no one dodges, it's each individual person's fault, not one person's fault as it usually is.

Most people don't seem to get it just yet.

Healers aren't gone. It's just that you can finally do stuff without them. You can still be a healer primarily and then people wont have to worry about healing themselves. So basically instead of just being a healer class, you can be anything and then be a healer/provide support. So it likely wont just be people self healing all the time, there will be regular healers all over the place. In any MMO I play, i always use characters tht have self heals and they aren't always enough, so healers are still very useful and needed in some cases.

Self heals aren't new and have never made healers useless

There are no primary healer classes.

 Iwill never, ever, ever, play a game witha trinity system for as long as I live. Well, maybe for nostalgia reasons, ten years from now, I may try it to remind me why I hated it so much. Other than that, it was the main reason I even looked at GW2.

Originally posted by jinxxed0

Most people don't seem to get it just yet.

Healers aren't gone. It's just that you can finally do stuff without them. You can still be a healer primarily and then people wont have to worry about healing themselves. So basically instead of just being a healer class, you can be anything and then be a healer/provide support. So it likely wont just be people self healing all the time, there will be regular healers all over the place. In any MMO I play, i always use characters tht have self heals and they aren't always enough, so healers are still very useful and needed in some cases.

 

Self heals aren't new and have never made healers useless

Which classes do you know for sure can work efficiently as "regular healer" in GW2? 

Originally posted by jinxxed0

Most people don't seem to get it just yet.

Healers aren't gone. It's just that you can finally do stuff without them. You can still be a healer primarily and then people wont have to worry about healing themselves. So basically instead of just being a healer class, you can be anything and then be a healer/provide support. So it likely wont just be people self healing all the time, there will be regular healers all over the place. In any MMO I play, i always use characters tht have self heals and they aren't always enough, so healers are still very useful and needed in some cases.

 

Self heals aren't new and have never made healers useless

Actually, Anet explicitly stated that support heals will never be good enough to take the burden of self-preservation from individual player - they just make it a bit easier. Self heals have never made healers useless, but no allied targetting and low healing numbers surely made dedicated healing impossible.

So just dodge the freaking attacks, come on man think, the game is not based on tank and spank. There will also be beneficial spells to allies and skill combinations, seriously has everyone here only ever played WoW? Can you not comprehend that the game does not have a holy trinity because it allows you to MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. The game is based on a NEW and INNOVATIVE system that give someone the ability to dodge the attacks by not standing still (i'm not talking about the skill per se but simply the trait of avoiding attacks in real time). This has NEVER been done before, except in almost every single player game ever! How is it that hard to understand?

Originally posted by paterah

So just dodge the freaking attacks, come on man think, the game is not based on tank and spank. There will also be beneficial spells to allies and skill combinations, seriously has everyone here only ever played WoW? Can you not comprehend that the game does not have a holy trinity because it allows you to MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.

Chill out man, this is literally on the beginnin mainly for those just finding out what GW 2 is all about or looking up on it.

Originally posted by paterah

So just dodge the freaking attacks, come on man think, the game is not based on tank and spank. There will also be beneficial spells to allies and skill combinations, seriously has everyone here only ever played WoW? Can you not comprehend that the game does not have a holy trinity because it allows you to MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.

Doesn't the game have a form of auto target (a soft form?)? This is the part that has me most confused at this point about GW2, I just question how viable dodging will actually be. Especially in a PVP scenario. I have really fast hand eye cordination, so it's really not a concern whether I can use it to an advantage, it's just that I'm not sure as a game mechanic how it will fit into a tab system.

I thought I read that dodge has a cool-down, that may have been something else I'm thinking of though (so don't quote me on that). IF it does have a cool-down it's not going to be all that useful, unless it's timed against a damaging blow (power strike).

I think that's an oversimplification of the group dynamics. Every class isn't a self-healing dps nor is there a dedicated trinity in support, control and dps.

Look at about 1:40 and at 22:35 in this video(I's recommend looking at the whole series):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWe2PPOjwo

This guardian at around the 1:45 mark didn't rez his ally, instead he kept whacking at the boss while soaking up and healing damage. No support what so ever to his allies. His control was just a by-product of spamming skills. His solo play was terrible and as a result he was a burden rather than an asset to his group. That made it boring.

Now take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0-S9SQCW4

At about 3:30, do you see how the warrior is using their dodge and skills effectively and not soaking up damage while whacking away at the troll? That's good solo play. When the guardian came in at the 3:50 mark, he descided to soak up and heal the trolls damage while dpsing which led to him being downed at the very end of the fight where as the warrior kept dodging and using their skills well. Idly if the troll was a fast melee character the warrior could have trade-off and took some hits while the guardian's cooldowns get replenished. Nonetheless, it's much more interesting grouping.

Then again, the holy trinity may just match your tastes in group play which is fine and a lot of solid games already have it.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by paterah

So just dodge the freaking attacks, come on man think, the game is not based on tank and spank. There will also be beneficial spells to allies and skill combinations, seriously has everyone here only ever played WoW? Can you not comprehend that the game does not have a holy trinity because it allows you to MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.

Doesn't the game have a form of auto target (a soft form?)? This is the part that has me most confused at this point about GW2, I just question how viable dodging will actually be. Especially in a PVP scenario. I have really fast hand eye cordination, so it's really not a concern whether I can use it to an advantage, it's just that I'm not sure as a game mechanic how it will fit into a tab system.

I thought I read that dodge has a cool-down, that may have been something else I'm thinking of though (so don't quote me on that). IF it does have a cool-down it's not going to be all that useful, unless it's timed against a damaging blow (power strike).

I'm not sure about pvp. In pve you can dodge attacks and even projectiles without the need to use the dodge ability.

Originally posted by friednietz

I think that's an oversimplification of the group dynamics. Every class isn't a self-healing dps nor is there a dedicated trinity in support, control and dps.

Look at about 1:40 and at 22:35 in this video(I's recommend looking at the whole series):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWe2PPOjwo

This guardian at around the 1:45 mark didn't rez his ally, instead he kept whacking at the boss while soaking up and healing damage. No support what so ever to his allies. His control was just a by-product of spamming skills. His solo play was terrible and as a result he was a burden rather than an asset to his group. That made it boring.

 

Now take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0-S9SQCW4

At about 3:30, do you see how the warrior is using their dodge and skills effectively and not soaking up damage while whacking away at the troll? That's good solo play. When the guardian came in at the 3:50 mark, he descided to soak up and heal the trolls damage while dpsing which led to him being downed at the very end of the fight where as the warrior kept dodging and using their skills well. Idly if the troll was a fast melee character the warrior could have trade-off and took some hits while the guardian's cooldowns get replenished. Nonetheless, it's much more interesting grouping.

 

Then again, the holy trinity may just match your tastes in group play which is fine and a lot of solid games already have it.

 

well how about not slacking of guardian player so much if you look it carefully and what he typoes on chat hes group already agroed the boss before he was even there, thats pro gaming from shite dps in any game and yet ok they wiped well what a suprise when tank wasnt around . then second try running back and again the dps is whacking the boss before the tank gets there. so my point is, its braindamaging trying to actually group play these games nor raid when people with your group or raid are twats like that.

Originally posted by paterah

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by paterah

So just dodge the freaking attacks, come on man think, the game is not based on tank and spank. There will also be beneficial spells to allies and skill combinations, seriously has everyone here only ever played WoW? Can you not comprehend that the game does not have a holy trinity because it allows you to MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.

Doesn't the game have a form of auto target (a soft form?)? This is the part that has me most confused at this point about GW2, I just question how viable dodging will actually be. Especially in a PVP scenario. I have really fast hand eye cordination, so it's really not a concern whether I can use it to an advantage, it's just that I'm not sure as a game mechanic how it will fit into a tab system.

I thought I read that dodge has a cool-down, that may have been something else I'm thinking of though (so don't quote me on that). IF it does have a cool-down it's not going to be all that useful, unless it's timed against a damaging blow (power strike).

I'm not sure about pvp. In pve you can dodge attacks and even projectiles without the need to use the dodge ability.

Yeah I can see that working in PVE, similar to a TES game in a sense, as you can step out of the way of a fireball as an example (I guess that's what you mean here). I'm more or less wondering how ranged skills work in a PVP situation, are spells aimed or do they auto follow their target?

My issue is if you wanted to do something like heal... to bad. I'm totally fine with the option of tanking not being absolutely needed, so long as its still possibly if you want (having someone holding as a distraction or purposely intercepting attacks). Healing though, I find it to be fun to do at times. A healing/supporting role to me really makes a game interesting and brings in new challenge. Sure, it doesn't need to be as focus heavy on healing as other games, but  it should exist in some form.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by paterah

So just dodge the freaking attacks, come on man think, the game is not based on tank and spank. There will also be beneficial spells to allies and skill combinations, seriously has everyone here only ever played WoW? Can you not comprehend that the game does not have a holy trinity because it allows you to MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.

Doesn't the game have a form of auto target (a soft form?)? This is the part that has me most confused at this point about GW2, I just question how viable dodging will actually be. Especially in a PVP scenario. I have really fast hand eye cordination, so it's really not a concern whether I can use it to an advantage, it's just that I'm not sure as a game mechanic how it will fit into a tab system.

I thought I read that dodge has a cool-down, that may have been something else I'm thinking of though (so don't quote me on that). IF it does have a cool-down it's not going to be all that useful, unless it's timed against a damaging blow (power strike).

Last i read you are invulnerable during the dodge animaiton. and there's a energy bar that dodge uses not sure if theres a cool down on the skill itself or just using the energy system

Originally posted by Purutzil

My issue is if you wanted to do something like heal... to bad. I'm totally fine with the option of tanking not being absolutely needed, so long as its still possibly if you want (having someone holding as a distraction or purposely intercepting attacks). Healing though, I find it to be fun to do at times. A healing/supporting role to me really makes a game interesting and brings in new challenge. Sure, it doesn't need to be as focus heavy on healing as other games, but  it should exist in some form.

it has to be , freedom to do whatevet you want is not entertaining in way if you group some dungeon for example, rules needs to be there. otherwise its just mindless chaos.