Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by crewthief

Why GW2 will not have to compete with WoW ?
 

 Its simply the wrong question to provide answers to, because the payment model simply nullify it.

So instead of asking if GW2 competes with any other MMO (because it really doesn't,) then ask if any other MMO can avoid competing with GW2.

Thats the interesting question , and 1 i think most MMO's compagnies are fearing the answer to right now.

It's a shame most people ignore sensible and logical posts like this one ^^^

It's simple really. GW2 is about box sales, not subscribers. Based on the hype surrounding the game their box sales are going to be through the roof. Even if you buy it, hate and never play it again.. it doesn't matter, ANet got the box sale they wanted and thats how it's success will be measured. Even people that don't like the game that much will probably play it from time to time purely because they can without extra cost.

Population wise? As long as each expansion brings in plenty people it will continue being a success.. anything between release and next expansion population wise doesn't matter, as long as there were plenty of box sales to start with and their expansion sales are high.

WoW needs subs to remain viable due to its genre dominance, GW2 doesn't because it isn't trying to get subs in the first place.

Thank you! That is exactly what I was getting at! Reading comprehension ftw...

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

I agree - GW2 is targeting a different playerbase: mainly MMO players.

 

I heard that too, guess Im in the right place!

Its like Ive been saying all along, GW has always been about PvP, and WoW has never been about PvP, so we got 2 entirely different games.

How has WoW never been about PvP??   They have more PvP specific game play options than any other MMO on the market along with competitive PvP tournaments held annually by Blizzard.

 

People say some wacky stuff on these forums.

I wouldn't bother asking tbh. Adalwulff seems to have a problem with making claims and then not being prepared to back them up with proof when asked.

 

And then there are people like you, who ask people to prove what they say, but never offer proof themselves, always keeping people on the defensive, its a common tactic among people who have no clue.

Yep I'm the guy in the wrong here. :p

My god, are you really this stupid? Once again no proof of your claims, instead you use simple misdirection to try and turn the conversation around so that everyone else does the work of proving your claims for you.

Actually I take it back, this is pretty smart of you, assuming the idea is to be as lazy as possible. :p

 

Right, because everyone knows how awsome the PvP in WoW is ...hahahaha! Not a single PvPer, worth his salt, considers WoW to be a PvP game. Look at any polls on the subject and there are several.

The PvP in WoW was an after thought, they lost a huge sum of players when the world pvp didnt deliver, I know because I was there, were you? Thats when they started adding the BG's, but it was never considered to be good.

The bulk of the attention was givin to raiding, everyone knows this, for you to deny it only shows your either ignorant of the game, or just flaming.

I'm beginning to wonder if you understand the different between PvP mechanics and PvE mechanis.

Lets be clear here. You said "WoW has never been about PvP"

Once again, someone else called you out on this and you respond aggressively and sarcastically. As if your opinion is complete fact and that to even challenge it is plain rediculous.

I do find it funny how you also make claims in your post of things I have apparently said. For instance you claim I denied that WoW has the majority of its focus on raiding when I haven't even spoken about WoW in my posts until now.

I haven't even mentioned anything regarding the differences of PvP vs PvE. You're just creating a strawman to try and further your point.

Thanks for proving yourself to be an idiot though. Think I'm done, you're becoming increasingly boring to deal with.

Let me clear it up for you, WoW has never been about PvP.

EVE has high sec, which is safe for PvE players to enjoy the game, but EVE is not about high sec, its about the low sec and all the PvP that happens there, the game is built around that concept. The economy is built around it, the NPCs are built around it. EVE would not exist if it werent for low-sec space.

WoW has bg's, which is much safer than open world PvP, something you PvEers complained so much about, so they stuck us into BG's, but WoW is not about the BG's or PvP, its all about raiding, the game is built around raiding. All the mechanics for that game, evolved and revolve around raiding. The gear progression, the rewards systems, all came from the mechanics for raiding. WoW would not exist if it werent for raiding.

You guys are obviously new to MMO's, so I dont mind explaining it to you, but you really should read up on this stuff before posting, save everyone a lot of time.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

I agree - GW2 is targeting a different playerbase: mainly MMO players.

 

I heard that too, guess Im in the right place!

Its like Ive been saying all along, GW has always been about PvP, and WoW has never been about PvP, so we got 2 entirely different games.

How has WoW never been about PvP??   They have more PvP specific game play options than any other MMO on the market along with competitive PvP tournaments held annually by Blizzard.

 

People say some wacky stuff on these forums.

I wouldn't bother asking tbh. Adalwulff seems to have a problem with making claims and then not being prepared to back them up with proof when asked.

 

And then there are people like you, who ask people to prove what they say, but never offer proof themselves, always keeping people on the defensive, its a common tactic among people who have no clue.

Yep I'm the guy in the wrong here. :p

My god, are you really this stupid? Once again no proof of your claims, instead you use simple misdirection to try and turn the conversation around so that everyone else does the work of proving your claims for you.

Actually I take it back, this is pretty smart of you, assuming the idea is to be as lazy as possible. :p

 

Right, because everyone knows how awsome the PvP in WoW is ...hahahaha! Not a single PvPer, worth his salt, considers WoW to be a PvP game. Look at any polls on the subject and there are several.

The PvP in WoW was an after thought, they lost a huge sum of players when the world pvp didnt deliver, I know because I was there, were you? Thats when they started adding the BG's, but it was never considered to be good.

The bulk of the attention was givin to raiding, everyone knows this, for you to deny it only shows your either ignorant of the game, or just flaming.

I'm beginning to wonder if you understand the different between PvP mechanics and PvE mechanis.

Lets be clear here. You said "WoW has never been about PvP"

Once again, someone else called you out on this and you respond aggressively and sarcastically. As if your opinion is complete fact and that to even challenge it is plain rediculous.

I do find it funny how you also make claims in your post of things I have apparently said. For instance you claim I denied that WoW has the majority of its focus on raiding when I haven't even spoken about WoW in my posts until now.

I haven't even mentioned anything regarding the differences of PvP vs PvE. You're just creating a strawman to try and further your point.

Thanks for proving yourself to be an idiot though. Think I'm done, you're becoming increasingly boring to deal with.

Let me clear it up for you, WoW has never been about PvP.

EVE has high sec, which is safe for PvE players to enjoy the game, but EVE is not about high sec, its about the low sec and all the PvP that happens there, the game is built around that concept. The economy is built around it, the NPCs are built around it. EVE would not exist if it werent for low-sec space.

WoW has bg's, which is much safer than open world PvP, something you PvEers complained so much about, so they stuck us into BG's, but WoW is not about the BG's or PvP, its all about raiding, the game is built around raiding. All the mechanics for that game, evolved and revolve around raiding. The gear progression, the rewards systems, all came from the mechanics for raiding. WoW would not exist if it werent for raiding.

You guys are obviously new to MMO's, so I dont mind explaining it to you, but you really should read up on this stuff before posting, save everyone a lot of time.

Ok, so how long after launch did blizzard wait until they released open PvP servers?

Well GW2 has to compete with WoW, and with any other Online game it just does it quite well.

GW2 does not in any way break out of the  "WoW" model, the main buisness model of WoW is to make top of the line interactive content accessible to all players which multiple MMO's prior to that could not.

This was achived by making the game so accessible that weather you were a 7 yr old kid or a 65 yr old nana you could pickup the game and play it at an enjoyable level. Blizzard understood that constant gratification and ever going stream of new content is required to keep the game alive. WoW was released with more content than any game prior to it, and added more content during its life time than most if not all its competitiors combined.

During its evolution Blizzard was also working on improving the accessibility of end game content which in many MMO's before WoW and even WoW during its vanilla content and even its first expansion lacked. Just compare how many players experienced Nax during vanilla to the Firelands today, it is possible to do  "Hard Mode" raids today in WoW via the group finder tool and clear them out. During the WOTLK i've PUGed LK heroic plenty of times.

And altough i dont fully agree with this philosophy i do appriciate it now since with my busy life sechdule i cant raid for 8 hours straight and farm mats for FR potions and FR armor like i could in my late teens an early 20's.

In that respect from what i've seen GW2 does it and very well, they've removed clasical end game content and intergrated into your entire gaming experince.

Leveling and char development are not longer a staging ground that you need to complete in order to enjoy the game to its fullest and access additional content. Heck for the most part you can skip leveling in general and jump straight into action, and if you enjoy the leveling and the personal story of your char you are welcomed to do it on the side.

GW2 also enables you to interact and play with your friends no matter what gap there is between you, and yes alltough for purely PVE content it works only one way(high to low) it is still better than most solutions currently available in other games such as XP locking.

For me this is a greate feature, i no longer have to worry about out leveling my GF for example and suffer the wrath and i dont have to result to leveling other characters when i have free time to play but my friends are not online. Truly leveling with close friends and family is pretty damn hard these days unless you sepcifically plan for it, and even then unless its only 1 maybe 2 people you level with it wont hold much after couple of days of leveling.

I dont understand why people think GW2 is so diffrent, beyond the fact that they've taken the basic requirements of post teen modern life and built their game aorund that. I never understood the rage people have when a game allows them to exprience more in a shorter period of time, heck every thing today works that way. You have youtube on your cellphones, 100MB is the standard speed for most countries, and since HD VOD came out about 5-6 years ago i cant even remeber what a TV channel is any more, you turn on the TV a nice menu pops up you select a TVshow or a Movie and watch it. So why does it when MMO's do it its bad? I never could figure out if the majority of the posters on this site realy can afford to spend 50 hours a week on a game like i could 7+ years ago, or they realy just like feeling special and more "pro" than any one else by demanding content to be unreachable. Accessiblity does not equal easy mode, any game content weather its end game or not needs to be challenging.

40 Man raids were no hard because they were complex and required top skills and jedi like reflexes, they weren't hard at all, they were inaccessible to many people becasue not every one can gather 40 people every night, or wants to be in a group of 35+ strangers. And atleast the initial requirements and costs of the constant wipes on unbeatable boses(Rag pre-nerf for example) ment that people needed to spend 2-3 hours farming for mats and coin on every hour of raiding they did. Been there done that, played on the #1 ranking US server at the time(Medivh) and i dont want to do it again, sure it was fun but for many of us who finish work at 5-6, come home, go to a gym or the pool for an hour or 2, needs to make dinner, take care of kids, wife or gf, house and stuff its just not realistic.

And yes i've met many people during my EQ and WoW days who were in their 30's or even 40's and still playing the game for 6 hours a day, many of them with their spouses and kids. But a game is a hobby at best and a leasure for most  and not a life style. Most people either can afford or dont want their game to become or dictate their life style, and since MMO's are no longer the dwelling realm of basement goblins and lonely teens no game company can afford to make them as they did in what many people who are plauged with nostalgia call the golden age of MMO's.

So yeah GW2 does compete with WoW, and it does it a hell of allot better than most if not all games released since and including WoW.

As for competing with WoW in the wallet front, GW2 is P2P, no monthly sub but i expect multiple content updates for 10-20US, a vanity store, and atleast a yearly full price expac to keep the mony flowing. So at the end i dont expect it to be any cheaper than a full sub MMO and even those find ways to grab some additional dough from your wallet every now and then just because ou can.

Originally posted by jimmytrouser

What does it matter?

I admire you for making a coherent post but why do people need to mention Wow whenever a new game is released?

Look at when SWTOR was being released, "Will this game kill Wow" posts everywhere.

"Is this game the next Wow killer?" Posted at every opportunity whenever a new game is being released.

 

Why do these types of posts keep resurfacing as if Wow invented the genre?  I know you are entitled to your opinion just as I am, but if you have ever played Wow you would change your mind and stop comparing every MMORPG that is released to it.

 

The game is broken, PVP is a joke; the gear grind is a joke; raid gear ruins everything as only a small percentage actually raid; crafting is a joke; questing is a joke.  Seriously play the game and after a while, a very short while, the game will become boring.

People are kept in the game with a shiny carrot on a stick that promises the world but gives nothing; because the player never reaches the end.  Heirlooms destroy any enjoyment a new player will have when either PVPin or running instances if they do not possess such OverPowered equipment.

 

In my opinion! GW2 will not have to compete with Wow because Wow is a very old decrepit dinosaur and GW2 is the fresh new face that will bring much needed revitalization to the genre because Wow made the genre stale.(Yes lots of subs for Wow over the years, but numbers do not make the game good; high numbers make the game successful and popular, this does not equate to a good game.)

 

But hey just my rant at least you put a plausible argument up.

See you in GW2!

Thanks again.

 

Strangely enough, in spite of your rant, this post was actually directed at all of the people that keep comparing GW2 to WoW when discussing targetted playerbase. I've played MMOs for 10 years, and i've refused to play WoW becuase of its mechanics. There's a very good chance you and I are on the exact same page.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Mythios11

Sure, WoW didn't have instanced BG's when it was released but what games did back in 2004?   Blizz added BG's and PvP specific rewards shortly after launch (I believe in patch 1.5) which means they've had quite a bit of PvP specific content for close to 7 years now.

Good day sir!

 

Back then we had world PvP, like Planetside, EVE and UO, not some limited version of it like BG's. Blizzard promised open world PvP before the game released, because thats what the other games were doing.

Blizzard added BG's after player demand, and it was always a back seat to raids, the game devs have never denied that.

Thanks for helping me prove my point, good day to you as well.   :)

WoW most certainly had open world PvP even on PvE servers not to mention the fact that about half of the servers were full PvP or RP-PvP at launch.   If people didn't want to participate in PvP, that's a player issue, not a game issue.

It's clear that your opinion of PvP only pertains to the ability to gank people who may or may not want to participate in such activities.  

You're quick to dismiss instanced battlegrounds as true PvP but in fact it's the most challenging form of PvP since everyone involved is focused on PvP and the related objectives. 

And once again, good day to you sir.

Originally posted by crewthief

This is my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree...but it is an opinion grounded in logic.

First off, the payment model. GW2 is buy-to-play, in other words...you purchase the box, and you can play it immediately and not worry about a monthly sub.

The expansions every 3 months is where they will get their money back. 

Its not a sub but if you want to play new content with your friends and see and loot new things you will end up buying it for £25 - £30 for each expansion.  So you think your not paying a sub but when you divide the expansion costs across 3 months you still are IF you want to continue playing beyond the game release.

I'm in no way knocking it, in fact I don't really care as long as the game is good. But, if your expecting updates/expansions a la WoW you will need to buy the expansions every 3 months, whch will work out the same as a sub.

(Item shop is another source or revenue, albeit, hopefully simply a cosmetic one).

Looking forward to trying it.

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Mythios11

Sure, WoW didn't have instanced BG's when it was released but what games did back in 2004?   Blizz added BG's and PvP specific rewards shortly after launch (I believe in patch 1.5) which means they've had quite a bit of PvP specific content for close to 7 years now.

Good day sir!

 

Back then we had world PvP, like Planetside, EVE and UO, not some limited version of it like BG's. Blizzard promised open world PvP before the game released, because thats what the other games were doing.

Blizzard added BG's after player demand, and it was always a back seat to raids, the game devs have never denied that.

Thanks for helping me prove my point, good day to you as well.   :)

WoW most certainly had open world PvP even on PvE servers not to mention the fact that about half of the servers were full PvP or RP-PvP at launch.   If people didn't want to participate in PvP, that's a player issue, not a game issue.

It's clear that your opinion of PvP only pertains to the ability to gank people who may or may not want to participate in such activities.  

You're quick to dismiss instanced battlegrounds as true PvP but in fact it's the most challenging form of PvP since everyone involved is focused on PvP and the related objectives. 

And once again, good day to you sir.

RP-PVP were released a couple of months after the US launch..

Originally posted by Magnetia

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

I agree - GW2 is targeting a different playerbase: mainly MMO players.

 

I heard that too, guess Im in the right place!

Its like Ive been saying all along, GW has always been about PvP, and WoW has never been about PvP, so we got 2 entirely different games.

How has WoW never been about PvP??   They have more PvP specific game play options than any other MMO on the market along with competitive PvP tournaments held annually by Blizzard.

 

People say some wacky stuff on these forums.

I wouldn't bother asking tbh. Adalwulff seems to have a problem with making claims and then not being prepared to back them up with proof when asked.

 

And then there are people like you, who ask people to prove what they say, but never offer proof themselves, always keeping people on the defensive, its a common tactic among people who have no clue.

Yep I'm the guy in the wrong here. :p

My god, are you really this stupid? Once again no proof of your claims, instead you use simple misdirection to try and turn the conversation around so that everyone else does the work of proving your claims for you.

Actually I take it back, this is pretty smart of you, assuming the idea is to be as lazy as possible. :p

 

Right, because everyone knows how awsome the PvP in WoW is ...hahahaha! Not a single PvPer, worth his salt, considers WoW to be a PvP game. Look at any polls on the subject and there are several.

The PvP in WoW was an after thought, they lost a huge sum of players when the world pvp didnt deliver, I know because I was there, were you? Thats when they started adding the BG's, but it was never considered to be good.

The bulk of the attention was givin to raiding, everyone knows this, for you to deny it only shows your either ignorant of the game, or just flaming.

I'm beginning to wonder if you understand the different between PvP mechanics and PvE mechanis.

Lets be clear here. You said "WoW has never been about PvP"

Once again, someone else called you out on this and you respond aggressively and sarcastically. As if your opinion is complete fact and that to even challenge it is plain rediculous.

I do find it funny how you also make claims in your post of things I have apparently said. For instance you claim I denied that WoW has the majority of its focus on raiding when I haven't even spoken about WoW in my posts until now.

I haven't even mentioned anything regarding the differences of PvP vs PvE. You're just creating a strawman to try and further your point.

Thanks for proving yourself to be an idiot though. Think I'm done, you're becoming increasingly boring to deal with.

Let me clear it up for you, WoW has never been about PvP.

EVE has high sec, which is safe for PvE players to enjoy the game, but EVE is not about high sec, its about the low sec and all the PvP that happens there, the game is built around that concept. The economy is built around it, the NPCs are built around it. EVE would not exist if it werent for low-sec space.

WoW has bg's, which is much safer than open world PvP, something you PvEers complained so much about, so they stuck us into BG's, but WoW is not about the BG's or PvP, its all about raiding, the game is built around raiding. All the mechanics for that game, evolved and revolve around raiding. The gear progression, the rewards systems, all came from the mechanics for raiding. WoW would not exist if it werent for raiding.

You guys are obviously new to MMO's, so I dont mind explaining it to you, but you really should read up on this stuff before posting, save everyone a lot of time.

Ok, so how long after launch did blizzard wait until they released open PvP servers?

Not sure, but there is RARELY any world pvp going on, there was one spot, stranglethorn area I think. But world pvp just never took off, because the devs gave all the time to raid content.

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Mythios11

Sure, WoW didn't have instanced BG's when it was released but what games did back in 2004?   Blizz added BG's and PvP specific rewards shortly after launch (I believe in patch 1.5) which means they've had quite a bit of PvP specific content for close to 7 years now.

Good day sir!

 

Back then we had world PvP, like Planetside, EVE and UO, not some limited version of it like BG's. Blizzard promised open world PvP before the game released, because thats what the other games were doing.

Blizzard added BG's after player demand, and it was always a back seat to raids, the game devs have never denied that.

Thanks for helping me prove my point, good day to you as well.   :)

WoW most certainly had open world PvP even on PvE servers not to mention the fact that about half of the servers were full PvP or RP-PvP at launch.   If people didn't want to participate in PvP, that's a player issue, not a game issue.

It's clear that your opinion of PvP only pertains to the ability to gank people who may or may not want to participate in such activities.  

You're quick to dismiss instanced battlegrounds as true PvP but in fact it's the most challenging form of PvP since everyone involved is focused on PvP and the related objectives. 

And once again, good day to you sir.

Typical, now your calling me a griefer/ganker because I want world pvp. The guys your describing want FFA pvp, with full loot, you should read up on the difference. I've never like it, and Ive said that here many times, if you would bother to actually read my posts.

There was NO world pvp going on, because Blizzard never gave the players incentives to do it, and most players are lazy and would rather go to a BG, where its easy to find targets. The mechanics for world pvp were never develped beyond the ability to simply do it, but even then it was limited, even on pvp servers.

Instead the devs focused on raiding, which is why I say WoW is not about pvp, if it were, people would be participating in world pvp, but they dont, even 7 years later they still dont.

I would again say good day to you, but I dont think you really mean it.

Originally posted by Diminio

Originally posted by crewthief

This is my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree...but it is an opinion grounded in logic.

First off, the payment model. GW2 is buy-to-play, in other words...you purchase the box, and you can play it immediately and not worry about a monthly sub.

 

The expansions every 3 months is where they will get their money back. 

Its not a sub but if you want to play new content with your friends and see and loot new things you will end up buying it for £25 - £30 for each expansion.  So you think your not paying a sub but when you divide the expansion costs across 3 months you still are IF you want to continue playing beyond the game release.

I'm in no way knocking it, in fact I don't really care as long as the game is good. But, if your expecting updates/expansions a la WoW you will need to buy the expansions every 3 months, whch will work out the same as a sub.

(Item shop is another source or revenue, albeit, hopefully simply a cosmetic one).

Looking forward to trying it.

 

 

I don't know where you're getting "an expansion every 3 months" from. That would be one hell of a dev cycle, and practically impossible to maintain. One expansion per year is more feasible, and even then that can be a frantic pace. If anything, ANet will rely upon their cash shop potentially between expansion cycles, and even then you won't spend as much in a single year as you do on a sub for another game.

Back on topic:

I can see how GW2 and WoW won't be in direct competition for subs, well because GW2 won't have subs. With the ability for someone to level via PvP in GW2, and be instantly max level upon entering a PvP area, you have the potential for a more "weekend warrior" type of play style. I know my wife and I will keep our WoW subs active as long as our guild is still raiding, and we will play GW2 on non-raid nights.

The two games have different focus on end-game content, with WoW being more raid focused than anything else. Where GW2 will impact WoW the most (and other mmos for that matter) is the PvP crowd. From all information available, GW2 looks to have one of the best PvP systems since DAoC, with a wide variety of types of PvP and being able to enjoy it from the get go.

The other area GW2 will impact other mmos is with the casual crowd. There is no endless gear grind, which is a huge benefit to the casual gamer. Additionally, a casual player in GW2 won't always have to play catch up with their friends, because of the sidekick system in place. GW2 makes it much easier to play with your friends regardless of level.

Those who will choose to play GW2 and maintain a sub to another game will most likely do so for a specific reason (such as my example). So yes, in theory GW2 won't have to compete with other mmos in terms of sub costs, but like others have said, they will have to compete for your time.

Originally posted by Magnetia

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

I agree - GW2 is targeting a different playerbase: mainly MMO players.

 

I heard that too, guess Im in the right place!

Its like Ive been saying all along, GW has always been about PvP, and WoW has never been about PvP, so we got 2 entirely different games.

How has WoW never been about PvP??   They have more PvP specific game play options than any other MMO on the market along with competitive PvP tournaments held annually by Blizzard.

 

People say some wacky stuff on these forums.

I wouldn't bother asking tbh. Adalwulff seems to have a problem with making claims and then not being prepared to back them up with proof when asked.

To say WoW has never been about PvP is probably an indicator of how attentive said player was in game. Each expansion introduced a new large PvP zone connected with end game raiding - Wintergrasp and Barradin...the new one are the ones I played. I hated the arenas but damn I loved those open zone battles.

lets not forget the whole basis of the game... two warring factions.... >.<

to the OP nice read, basically I agree, but just be being around GW2 will help Blizzard kill its own game. They will try to copy, fail, they will give Ghostcrawler more stuff to take over and ruin and it will push more ppl away from the game. Anet has a completely different mentality as a company and that alone will take people away from the greedy douches at Blizzard.

I do wonder about one thing however.. since part of how Blizzard pushes players away is its GM system and how they never fix anything(allow people to be harassed, break rules, ect w/o any consequence). Since GW1 there is really no need to contact Anet we haven't seen how they will handle situations like that.. although it could just be that I haven't seen it.

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Diminio

Originally posted by crewthief

This is my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree...but it is an opinion grounded in logic.

First off, the payment model. GW2 is buy-to-play, in other words...you purchase the box, and you can play it immediately and not worry about a monthly sub.

 

The expansions every 3 months is where they will get their money back. 

Its not a sub but if you want to play new content with your friends and see and loot new things you will end up buying it for £25 - £30 for each expansion.  So you think your not paying a sub but when you divide the expansion costs across 3 months you still are IF you want to continue playing beyond the game release.

I'm in no way knocking it, in fact I don't really care as long as the game is good. But, if your expecting updates/expansions a la WoW you will need to buy the expansions every 3 months, whch will work out the same as a sub.

(Item shop is another source or revenue, albeit, hopefully simply a cosmetic one).

Looking forward to trying it.

 

 

I don't know where you're getting "an expansion every 3 months" from. That would be one hell of a dev cycle, and practically impossible to maintain. One expansion per year is more feasible, and even then that can be a frantic pace. If anything, ANet will rely upon their cash shop potentially between expansion cycles, and even then you won't spend as much in a single year as you do on a sub for another game.

Back on topic:

I can see how GW2 and WoW won't be in direct competition for subs, well because GW2 won't have subs. With the ability for someone to level via PvP in GW2, and be instantly max level upon entering a PvP area, you have the potential for a more "weekend warrior" type of play style. I know my wife and I will keep our WoW subs active as long as our guild is still raiding, and we will play GW2 on non-raid nights.

The two games have different focus on end-game content, with WoW being more raid focused than anything else. Where GW2 will impact WoW the most (and other mmos for that matter) is the PvP crowd. From all information available, GW2 looks to have one of the best PvP systems since DAoC, with a wide variety of types of PvP and being able to enjoy it from the get go.

The other area GW2 will impact other mmos is with the casual crowd. There is no endless gear grind, which is a huge benefit to the casual gamer. Additionally, a casual player in GW2 won't always have to play catch up with their friends, because of the sidekick system in place. GW2 makes it much easier to play with your friends regardless of level.

Those who will choose to play GW2 and maintain a sub to another game will most likely do so for a specific reason (such as my example). So yes, in theory GW2 won't have to compete with other mmos in terms of sub costs, but like others have said, they will have to compete for your time.

Right, you seem to get what I was driving at. I agree with the competition for time, for those looking for something different though, GW2 might not have much competition.

Originally posted by ariboersma

Originally posted by Magnetia

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

I agree - GW2 is targeting a different playerbase: mainly MMO players.

 

I heard that too, guess Im in the right place!

Its like Ive been saying all along, GW has always been about PvP, and WoW has never been about PvP, so we got 2 entirely different games.

How has WoW never been about PvP??   They have more PvP specific game play options than any other MMO on the market along with competitive PvP tournaments held annually by Blizzard.

 

People say some wacky stuff on these forums.

I wouldn't bother asking tbh. Adalwulff seems to have a problem with making claims and then not being prepared to back them up with proof when asked.

To say WoW has never been about PvP is probably an indicator of how attentive said player was in game. Each expansion introduced a new large PvP zone connected with end game raiding - Wintergrasp and Barradin...the new one are the ones I played. I hated the arenas but damn I loved those open zone battles.

lets not forget the whole basis of the game... two warring factions.... >.<

 

to the OP nice read, basically I agree, but just be being around GW2 will help Blizzard kill its own game. They will try to copy, fail, they will give Ghostcrawler more stuff to take over and ruin and it will push more ppl away from the game. Anet has a completely different mentality as a company and that alone will take people away from the greedy douches at Blizzard.

I do wonder about one thing however.. since part of how Blizzard pushes players away is its GM system and how they never fix anything(allow people to be harassed, break rules, ect w/o any consequence). Since GW1 there is really no need to contact Anet we haven't seen how they will handle situations like that.. although it could just be that I haven't seen it.

Yeah, not sure about that as I never played GW1. Thank you for reading the post and responding accordingly, alot of people seem to just enter the thread and respond without understanding the topic, lol.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Mythios11

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Mythios11

Sure, WoW didn't have instanced BG's when it was released but what games did back in 2004?   Blizz added BG's and PvP specific rewards shortly after launch (I believe in patch 1.5) which means they've had quite a bit of PvP specific content for close to 7 years now.

Good day sir!

 

Back then we had world PvP, like Planetside, EVE and UO, not some limited version of it like BG's. Blizzard promised open world PvP before the game released, because thats what the other games were doing.

Blizzard added BG's after player demand, and it was always a back seat to raids, the game devs have never denied that.

Thanks for helping me prove my point, good day to you as well.   :)

WoW most certainly had open world PvP even on PvE servers not to mention the fact that about half of the servers were full PvP or RP-PvP at launch.   If people didn't want to participate in PvP, that's a player issue, not a game issue.

It's clear that your opinion of PvP only pertains to the ability to gank people who may or may not want to participate in such activities.  

You're quick to dismiss instanced battlegrounds as true PvP but in fact it's the most challenging form of PvP since everyone involved is focused on PvP and the related objectives. 

And once again, good day to you sir.

 

Typical, now your calling me a griefer/ganker because I want world pvp. The guys your describing want FFA pvp, with full loot, you should read up on the difference. I've never like it, and Ive said that here many times, if you would bother to actually read my posts.

There was NO world pvp going on, because Blizzard never gave the players incentives to do it, and most players are lazy and would rather go to a BG, where its easy to find targets. The mechanics for world pvp were never develped beyond the ability to simply do it, but even then it was limited, even on pvp servers.

Instead the devs focused on raiding, which is why I say WoW is not about pvp, if it were, people would be participating in world pvp, but they dont, even 7 years later they still dont.

I would again say good day to you, but I dont think you really mean it.

I wil end by saying that your orginal statement that "Wow has never been about PvP" is inaccurate.  As we delve a little deeper into the discussion, you have very valid points regarding the current state of open world PvP in WoW.   No one is saying Blizz did a bang up job on open world PvP but where they do offer a lot of enjoyable PvP content (in my opinion) is in the instanced BG's and even incentive based PvP centric zones like Wintergrasp and Tol Barad.

I do agree that it would be nice to have more open world PvP but WoW has become a lobby game so that's not happening.

And just because we have spirited debate does not mean that I do not wish you a good day sir :)

Good day sir

Originally posted by crewthief

 

Did you actually read the post? Of course it will compete with other MMOs. The point was, because it isn't a WoW clone it  is targetting a different playerbase of gamers. Of course there will be overlap, but the hardcore GW2 playerbase wants something very different from the hardcore WoW playerbase. Please read before you post.

Do you not see the major flaw in your argument? This is like saying Skyrim isn't aimed at people who may also like Mass Effect. Do you really  think there is just going to be "some" overlap? There's going to be a lot of overlap, that's the point of an MMO, they want to attract many different types of players, not just one set, they're also not just hoping for some overlap, they want to take as many players (read interest as many), as they can.

They want WOW players, TOR players, GW1 players, non MMO players and they want them all equally.

On top of that the people playing WOW and others, might want something different just as much as anyone else.

OP is spot on.  My wife and I are exited for this spring for the reasons stated, as we can only afford 1 sub atm we are going to be able to continue our WOW sub, play Guild Wars2 and revisit AIon with there incoming FTP model.

Best spring ever for MMO fans?

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Diminio

Originally posted by crewthief

This is my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree...but it is an opinion grounded in logic.

First off, the payment model. GW2 is buy-to-play, in other words...you purchase the box, and you can play it immediately and not worry about a monthly sub.

 

The expansions every 3 months is where they will get their money back. 

Its not a sub but if you want to play new content with your friends and see and loot new things you will end up buying it for £25 - £30 for each expansion.  So you think your not paying a sub but when you divide the expansion costs across 3 months you still are IF you want to continue playing beyond the game release.

I'm in no way knocking it, in fact I don't really care as long as the game is good. But, if your expecting updates/expansions a la WoW you will need to buy the expansions every 3 months, whch will work out the same as a sub.

(Item shop is another source or revenue, albeit, hopefully simply a cosmetic one).

Looking forward to trying it.

 

 

I don't know where you're getting "an expansion every 3 months" from. That would be one hell of a dev cycle, and practically impossible to maintain. One expansion per year is more feasible, and even then that can be a frantic pace. If anything, ANet will rely upon their cash shop potentially between expansion cycles, and even then you won't spend as much in a single year as you do on a sub for another game.

Back on topic:

I can see how GW2 and WoW won't be in direct competition for subs, well because GW2 won't have subs. With the ability for someone to level via PvP in GW2, and be instantly max level upon entering a PvP area, you have the potential for a more "weekend warrior" type of play style. I know my wife and I will keep our WoW subs active as long as our guild is still raiding, and we will play GW2 on non-raid nights.

The two games have different focus on end-game content, with WoW being more raid focused than anything else. Where GW2 will impact WoW the most (and other mmos for that matter) is the PvP crowd. From all information available, GW2 looks to have one of the best PvP systems since DAoC, with a wide variety of types of PvP and being able to enjoy it from the get go.

The other area GW2 will impact other mmos is with the casual crowd. There is no endless gear grind, which is a huge benefit to the casual gamer. Additionally, a casual player in GW2 won't always have to play catch up with their friends, because of the sidekick system in place. GW2 makes it much easier to play with your friends regardless of level.

Those who will choose to play GW2 and maintain a sub to another game will most likely do so for a specific reason (such as my example). So yes, in theory GW2 won't have to compete with other mmos in terms of sub costs, but like others have said, they will have to compete for your time.

GW1 had 4(some say 3 since EoN was bearly an xpack)  xpacks during its first 2 years, sadly Anet dropped content support for GW2 2 years after its release for the most part with some adjustments after they released their xpacks.

The only black spot in my opinion on Anets record(besides the fact i didnt enjoyed GW1 that much) was that they stoped releasing content 2 years after release, and havent released any real content updates for 5 years now alltough the game is still supported(alltought technically its under extended support by NC now and no longer directly via Anet).

If they want to keep this game alive, and this game wasnt cheap might no be ToR expensive but im pretty sure i was in the 80-100M region especially since they had to move to much more server oriented setup rather than pure p2p and even offline gaming exprience as GW1 was with its instanced content.

GW2 has a new/updated engine, pretty much new art assests, lots of voice overs and a presistant world which requires server side hosting unlike GW1 which pretty much required only a AAA gateway and a chat host. Its been developed for atleast 5 years since it was announced in early(march feb i belive) 2007 which means the project was piloted and signed off say atleat 6 months prior to that, and keeping a dev team for that long with out any income(as they havent relased any content updates and dont get any income from subs) takes its toll.

GW1 was a nice cash in since it was a fairly simple game, didnt had that much content in it(first campaing took about 20 hours to complete), and as stated didnt require a large scale backend infrastructure. Further more i also belive that Anet is tied much deeper into NCsoft these days since they had to recive much more funding to develop GW2 than they need to do GW1, and GW1 wasnt a best selling hit either, even very optimisic estimates estimate less than 1M copies sold in EU and US for the entire trilogy, with about 400K for the ogirinal full priced game. Yes its much harder to estimate GW1 sales since they went digital allmost instantly but its there is no way they made enough money to fund GW2 not even close.

NCsoft seen that GW1 and Anet had potential and desided to front a real MMO instead of attempting to build upon what GW1, that would also explain the lack of content support for GW1 pass 2007 since these days its much easier to attrack people to a new release than to an existing one.

GW2 will have to cover all these dev and publishing costs, so yeah expect smaller DLC every 3-6 months for 10-20US and full expacs(atleast GW1 level ones) at 9-12 months + a vanity shop. Without thise there is no way that GW2 would ever come close to paying back its dev costs and the cost of upkeeping Anet as a 1st party studio.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by crewthief

 

Did you actually read the post? Of course it will compete with other MMOs. The point was, because it isn't a WoW clone it  is targetting a different playerbase of gamers. Of course there will be overlap, but the hardcore GW2 playerbase wants something very different from the hardcore WoW playerbase. Please read before you post.

Do you not see the major flaw in your argument? This is like saying Skyrim isn't aimed at people who may also like Mass Effect. Do you really  think there is just going to be "some" overlap? There's going to be a lot of overlap, that's the point of an MMO, they want to attract many different types of players, not just one set, they're also not just hoping for some overlap, they want to take as many players (read interest as many), as they can.

They want WOW players, TOR players, GW1 players, non MMO players and they want them all equally.

On top of that the people playing WOW and others, might want something different just as much as anyone else.

Obviously they want as many playing as possible. Did you read the original post??? This wasn't my point at all. My point was, since GW2 is not a clone of WoW it won't have to do what WoW does better than WoW. A game like SWTOR, which is obviously a WoW clone, has to employ the WoW model better than Blizzard does. Since it does not, it will lose those players that want that model back to WoW...since WoW does it better than SWTOR. GW2 doesn't have to worry about this, because it isn't trying to be WoW, it's trying to be different. This cannot possibly be that difficult to understand, maybe i'm just not explaining it well enough. There seems to be alot of confusion in this thread.