Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:

 

1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.

 

I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.

 

If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.

 1) is easy if you only have 200 active players concurrently (DF or MO) or you are playing spreadsheets in space (Eve). 

2) Undecided about that it depends how its implemented. Far more opportunity for it to be a mess than something positive. In any case it is certainly not a mandatory requirement "to keep players coming back for years". I mean look at WoW <shudder>.

3) PvP is of central imortance, two completely different flavours of it. 

Anyway you present 3 valid points in a somewhat troll like fashion. I am certainly not gonna disagree there is a load of hype around GWII but I don't see how that is related to your three points. Its a non squitur.

A well crafted game can be fun regardless of features or whether it is a 'themepark' or a 'sandbox'. It look like a hard one to pigeonhole, it is what it is.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:

 

1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.

 

I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.

 

If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.

1) - they were mentioning something like transfering characters to other "realms" only with a click of a mouse (something like choosing districts in gw1) but I'm not sure they actually made it happen. Tho I don't think it'll be a problem since legends will be seen on pvp ladder and everyone will compeete to be the best guild/player/team. GW1 has this system and works pretty well.

2) No, then the game wouldn't be a theme-park would be? But you'll have your own guild hall in which you can add what you like (from what's offered ofc) and if they decide to add guild hall battles then you'll use that hall to fight against other guilds which challange yours.

3) It shouldn't because not everyone likes PvP as much as they do PvE or the other way around. Making 1 aspect of the game more important then the other it forces people in doing something they do not like and eventually it draws them away from the game. PVP is important as the PVE (and they said it many many times). I think the game which has both PVP and PVE in the white spot and they both are amazingly well done is a successful game because it gives you a chance to choose what you want to do with your character or even jump to that other aspect of the game when you simply don't feel like doing PVE/PVP in that moment.

If you ask me, the game is done the way other games should've been done as well. Nothing big so far (that I've noticed) is missing.

Originally posted by Charas
Yeah this is a themepark but at least they're trying new things instead of just copying WoW like Rift and SWToR did. Also it won't have a subscription so even if/when it looses its sparkle we'll still be able to play it casually for the things we still enjoy.

Love this ^^.

Seems to forget WoW copied EQ and those before it.  Everyone's been criticizing SW:ToR for lack of originality by copying WoW....funny, copying a copy!

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:

 

1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.

 

I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.

 

If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.

I think you know nothing of which you speak and you should go back to watching Archage's hype ticker.

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I don't think OP is advocating another sandbox..Atleast thats what i didn't get from his post. He is just asking for more player interactive features like structure building in game.

Which is inherently incompatible with themepark games. Housing and guild halls that are instanced are fine, but you can't go building houses in a themepark MMO.

Is there some rule about this that i don't know.

Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it's impossible

edit: How amazing would it actually be if you can build your own fort in WvW from the ground it.  /mindisblownaway

Originally posted by ComfyChair

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1) sandbox - not applicable - sandboxes can only do it because they're usually fairly niche games anyway.

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2) sandbox - not applicable

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3) WvW and structed PvP isn't enough at launch? The former is amazing, massive scale PvP which is basically 'sandbox' PvP anyway, and the second is going to be brilliant as an e-sport.

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GW2 is a next gen themepark.

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the game is not really applicable to sandbox fans, sorry :(

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Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:

 

1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.

Nah. All that's required is that there's enough community-building opportunities in the game to allow each server to develop its own. In previous MMOs, players became "famous legends", as well as "infamous villains" among the players on a per server basis. Better yet, each server developed its own sort of "server personality" that it became identified with.

The problem is that not many MMO devs these days bother to really put much into community building. The "big thing" lately is about shuffling people through random cross-server dungeon PUGs with other players they'll likely never see again. Many MMOS over the past few years have increasingly pushed anonymity and solo friendliness, rather than trying to nurture community.

The games with the strongest server and game-wide communities have been those where players had to depend on each other, social interaction was beneficial, your attitude and behavior colored your reputation, and your reputation meant something. That just isn't the case with most newer MMOs. Many players, mostly those newer to the genre with a more console / solo background, just are quite vocally not interested in that.

In more recent MMOs over the pat several years, no one knows each other outside their own personal circles, because no one has to know each other. There's no need to, outside of end-game raiding. The idea of community has been reduced from being a server-wide thing down to a case of, "you want community, join a guild". Guilds are great, but they are not the same as a server-wide community. They are each a part of a server-wide community. MMO devs have forgotten that and, so, many players post-2004 have never experienced what an actual server community is like.

Server Community can exist in a MMORPG whether you have 1 server or 100. It's down to the developers to design the game to nurture and develop it. MMO developers have not been doing that over the past several years, and so you now have MMOs where there are thousands of people running around as solo agents, knowing only the people in their guild, or close personal circle.

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

Nice, but not necessary. Some of the most popular and longest running MMOs out there do not have the ability to buid structures. History simply does not bear out that being able to build structures leads to a larger and longer lasting player base.

3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.

 If it's well balanced, and PvP is truly at the core of the gameplay, then I agree with this. I think Lineage 2 has it right - or at least did. I'm not too keen on some changes they've made to it with Goddess of Destruction. If you want to have a MMO about PvP, then it has to be part of everything in the game in some way, even if it doesn't involve players fighting each other directly. When PvP systems are "tacked on" to an otherwise entirely PvE game, it's just weak.

I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.

Most of the hype I'm seeing with GW2 is, as usual, coming from its biggest fans who believe with every thread of their being that it's going to be the best thing ever. In their enthusiasm, they're hyping the game to the sky. Best thing one can do with hype is simply not buy into it. Ignore the hyperbole and focus on the facts.

Players can only be let down by hype if  they buy into it in the first place.

If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.

This last line is completely pointless. No one needs to "convince you otherwise". You have an opinion, like everyone else. Forums are about discussions, not challenges of who's right and who's wrong; although it often turns into that as many people seem to regard their own opinions as sacred cows that represent everybody.

Originally posted by Djildjamesh

Originally posted by ComfyChair

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I don't think OP is advocating another sandbox..Atleast thats what i didn't get from his post. He is just asking for more player interactive features like structure building in game.

Which is inherently incompatible with themepark games. Housing and guild halls that are instanced are fine, but you can't go building houses in a themepark MMO.

Is there some rule about this that i don't know.

Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it's impossible

 

edit: How amazing would it actually be if you can build your own fort in WvW from the ground it.  /mindisblownaway

People would pwn you before you fould finish it.

Originally posted by Valentina

No MMO that has PvP as the central focus is a huge commercial success, sorry. And anyone who thinks ArenaNet can do what Blizzard, or other far more experienced, larger, and wealthier studios couldn't do is kind of fooling themselves. What GW2 needs is to continue it's emphesis on story, and develop that more and more over time. It's current incarnation doesn't come close to matching SWTOR, but it's still far better than other MMO's before SWTOR, and itself. Both games are great for the genre, and both games will probably maintain high levels of success over the next few years.

I think you probably haven't fully got what GWII is about. Sure it has a story element but its gameplay really is a paradigm shift. SWTOTR went in the story direction. GWII have gone in the co operative gaming direction. It's almost the polar opposite everything is designed around fostering co-operative gameplay. Story is fairly important but is no substitute for weak gameplay.

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

2) No, then the game wouldn't be a theme-park would be? But you'll have your own guild hall in which you can add what you like (from what's offered ofc) and if they decide to add guild hall battles then you'll use that hall to fight against other guilds which challange yours.

Why would it instantly stop being a theme park? Why do you (and others) keep talking about the ability to build housing/structures like its the sole factor that determines whether or not a game is a 'theme park' or a 'sandbox'. Both genres are perfectly capable of supporting such a feature, and (if done well) it would be a great addition to most/all mmo's.

Originally posted by davestr1zl

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

2) No, then the game wouldn't be a theme-park would be? But you'll have your own guild hall in which you can add what you like (from what's offered ofc) and if they decide to add guild hall battles then you'll use that hall to fight against other guilds which challange yours.

Why would it instantly stop being a theme park? Why do you (and others) keep talking about the ability to build housing/structures like its the sole factor that determines whether or not a game is a 'theme park' or a 'sandbox'. Both genres are perfectly capable of supporting such a feature, and (if done well) it would be a great addition to most/all mmo's.

Agreed, substantially more building freedom would be a welcome addition assuming they can pull it off without any major issues. 

Originally posted by Valentina

No MMO that has PvP as the central focus is a huge commercial success, sorry. And anyone who thinks ArenaNet can do what Blizzard, or other far more experienced, larger, and wealthier studios couldn't do is kind of fooling themselves.

Oh my! Arenanet's founders WERE Blizzard before Blizzard was even Blizzard... did you know Pat Wyatt worked on The Lost Vikings (one of my favorite SNES titles) when Blizzard was still Silicon & Synapse? I'm guessing not, judging by the way you stuffed your foot in your mouth right there.

You can't buy this kind of pedigree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArenaNet

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:

 

1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.

 

I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.

 

If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.

What games have those three things that "keep(s) players coming back for years" besides EVE and (unrleased) Archeage? I like the post, I'm just wondering :D

I can easily list games that have none of those things that also keep players coming back for years: WoW, Guild Wars 1, Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Maplestory . . . there are more, but I'll stop.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I believe that GW2 is lacking the three features that keep players coming back for years, namely:

 

1) Everyone should be on the same server, so players have the chance to become real famous legends amongst other players.

2) Everyone should be able to build structures in-game. This makes the place feel like a home, and gives you something tangible to build, defend, and attack.

3) PvP should be of central importance - As clever human beings, we eventually learn all about a game's AI, but there is nothing quite like a human opponent - we can be brilliant, stupid, and unpredictable.

 

I believe that the (marketing) hype is too strong. GW2 will turn out to be another SWTOR - initially impressive, but lacking once the theme-park rides have been done.

 

If you don't agree with me, I would love to hear your arguments and be convinced otherwise.

Let's see... in GW2, "1" and "3" are contradictory, since the major WvW PvP system is three servers battling against each other. Now, the only game I personally know of with everyone on the same server is Eve Online, and that's so heavily zoned (every system is it's own instance basically) that implementing something like that in GW2 would suck.

#2... horribly false. Imagine the landscape if a million players on a single server decided to build their own house... yuck.

Originally posted by Volkon

#2... horribly false. Imagine the landscape if a million players on a single server decided to build their own house... yuck.

LOL, you're right, that is a horrible image, and we don't even have to talk about numbers as high as a million, imagine running into a town of 100K houses, and trying to navigate them all (or even burn them all down).

I do like games that have pre-built keeps or castles which players can capture and control, such as Lineage 2 or DAOC.

I disagree with OP because I don't find SWTOR along with Rift,WoW,GW1,Aion,,AoC,FF14 Initially impressive.

I more find them initially bland,cartoonish,boring,to purple,more of the same,terrible. In no particular order...

OP, i'd suggest doing a bit of research on WvW in GW2...from what we know, it will have an integral part to play in the world as a whole. Also, in the Guild Features article written on this site, it alluded to guilds having the ability to construct Guild Halls.

Originally posted by Fangrim

I disagree with OP because I don't find SWTOR along with Rift,WoW,GW1,Aion,,AoC,FF14 Initially impressive.

I more find them initially bland,cartoonish,boring,to purple,more of the same,terrible. In no particular order...

Ah and  you don't find gw2 cartoonish?? You are serious?? You know what is amazing graphic? Battlefield 3 and some of the fps games. You will se how bad is graphic from gw2 when you put that on your big monitor

Originally posted by Somsbal

There's no convincing you. You want a sandbox.

Try Archeage, or continue playing Eve.

Don't try forcing yourself to like this game, because it's clear that you don't. Just move on.

+1

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

So you all want a theme-park that lasts about a year?

Personally, if I was going to invest that much time into a game, I would want it to be good forever.

 

Are you familiar with the first guild wars? If not, let me tell you they have continued to roll out content for that game at least once a year if not more. ArenaNet said they plan to do the same with GW2. So as long as content keeps rolling out for both PvE and PvP, then the entertainment should be nearly endless at the cost of nothing (no sub fee) but only paying for the original game and its expansions.