Originally posted by Bunks

are you kidding, I am spinning my head wondering if there will be enough time to do it all before an expansion is released.

I know for a fact WvW is where I will level up the majority of my main characters. Then forget about the fact you can match play all the classes without even needing to level up. Then watchin a PvE video, I see a guy fall off a rock into a lake, only to find  a cave that had a whole area as big as the open area he just fell from. PVP, Exploration ,WvW battles. Forget about crafting, gathering, the city mini games (have you seen the cities?) it's all quite overwhelming. And notice, I haven't even mention Dynamic world changing events yet.

 

End game is everywhere, it starts at level 1

I agree.

There is almost too much to do.

The entire game is endgame and you can go back and do content you've "outleveled" and still find it challenging and fun. That would mean less if the PVE content was static quests in a static world, but with DEs and a world that feels alive you've got tons of content that once it becomes available to you, remains available to you. With out end game grinds or carrot and stick treadmills, there is no reason to stop playing content you find fun, just because your level bar no longer moves. They remove the treadmill, point you towards the massive, dynamic world and say "get out and enjoy".

There is the replayability of alts, which is much more inviting than in other games. The branching personal story varies greatly based on race, profession and biography choices. The game zones are different every time you return, since different Dynamic Events will always be in a different combination of states and stages. There is plenty of redundancy of game zones, so you can chart a leveling path that explores parts of the world you didn't hit with the last character. Etc...

Add in Competative PVP, World Vs World and even little things like the plethora of in game mini-games and there is plenty of long term fun to be had. Bonus points for not requiring you to become a Raid Progression Robot in order to find something to do with your characters once they do reach the level cap.

I have mixed feelings about endgame in GW2.  On one hand, I'm excited about an MMO that lets me stay competitive even with my limited play time; however, all I keep hearing is how Anet is reducing the gear grind.  Reducing the gear grind without putting anything else in its place just means your game has no endgame content, and people are going to tire out within the first two months.

Not much different from SW:TOR when you look at it from that perspective.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

i should have put a line between that paragraph. the "no gear progression" was in favor of GW2 not against it.

 

honestly, i have looked over this game time and time again, but i dont get giddy like a school girl. TSW brings that out in me because i start thinking about the possiblities.

 

im sure GW2 will be good, but really it doesnt stick in my head quite as much as TSW. though i do think this game has a much needed role in the progression of MMORPG as a whole. TSW is taking a huge step forward we need another game to kinda sit inbetween it and WoW. GW2 seems to land that role PERFECTLY.

IDK why you think TSW will be that good... its made by funcom.

wanna know something funny, that arguement means absolutely nothing.

there is no factual statement behind it, there is no Evidence what so ever. the only arguement i have heard is the word Funcom.

and you know what. completely different dev team is working on the game, look up adventure company and you will see who's making the game.

Anywho, i may give GW2 a shot if it comes out first, but i got bored of the first one pretty quickly.

Originally posted by Xstatic912

Quote "If someone has more time to play than myself, they should not be rewarded with an advantage. The only reason they should be better than me is if they are just that; better than me."

 

Wahh, What!!.. Your telling me i put in more time and effort than you and i shouldn't be rewarded"... Thats like saying i work 80hrs a week and you work 40hrs and becuase you can't work the 80hrs, I shouldn't  be paid (or rewarded) extra.... Can't see the logic.

 

Back to the topic...

I think in a month or 2 people will start to move on from GW 2, not becuase it sucks or anything of the sort.. 

But because it free, and they don't want to get burnt out...

by that argument, i don't see why some people earn millions and i earn a smidgen of that when i work some 50+ hours most weeks and they're working a good deal less. they seem to get long lunch breaks, too. in restaurants and cafes. with other dudes earning the same ridiculous pay. i get half an hour and that's it. my work bonus is a constant pain in my leg, bad lower back, and less superannuation than an ant can pee. and don't say they do their share of work, because work is something i never see them doing.

as for moving on... moving on to ... what? not much else due out at this stage.

if someone else has more time to play, it's because they're unemployed or a student. either way, they're playing on my taxes. in which case, i'm paying for them to play. so they should be giving ME the bonus extras as a thankyou for giving THEM the time to play. because, yes, i'm STILL paying more taxes than those guys going to lunch and getting paid more.

i guess what i'm saying is: life ain't fair, but i'm so glad there's at least one game coming out that's giving me the chance to pretend it could be for a few hours a day...

Originally posted by LadyNoh

wanna know something funny, that arguement means absolutely nothing.

there is no factual statement behind it, there is no Evidence what so ever. the only arguement i have heard is the word Funcom.

and you know what. completely different dev team is working on the game, look up adventure company and you will see who's making the game.

 

Anywho, i may give GW2 a shot if it comes out first, but i got bored of the first one pretty quickly.

TSW is going to be my sub game, but so far I havent seen a lot that has my worries put aside yet. GW2 has removed all my skepticisms with proof of play. TSW hasn't done that yet. So Im still concerned.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

I have mixed feelings about endgame in GW2.  On one hand, I'm excited about an MMO that lets me stay competitive even with my limited play time; however, all I keep hearing is how Anet is reducing the gear grind.  Reducing the gear grind without putting anything else in its place just means your game has no endgame content, and people are going to tire out within the first two months.

Not much different from SW:TOR when you look at it from that perspective.

"The entire game is endgame". This is not an empty catch phrase. When you understand what it means, you'll understand that typical end game concerns just don't apply here. You do not play GW2 to reach end game, where you then play a very different game, (usually an endless raid progression), that has nothing to do with the game you played on the way to the cap.

Also, remember, the game is Buy to Play. There is no subscription fee putting pressure on you and the game to continually justify the subscription fee or cut from the game entirely. Play it as much or as little as you want each month. Play it daily, play it just on weekends, play it just with an occassional group of RL friends, play it fanatically. It doesn't matter. The game offers you plenty of ways to have fun and that's the reason you will play, for fun.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

I have mixed feelings about endgame in GW2.  On one hand, I'm excited about an MMO that lets me stay competitive even with my limited play time; however, all I keep hearing is how Anet is reducing the gear grind.  Reducing the gear grind without putting anything else in its place just means your game has no endgame content, and people are going to tire out within the first two months.

Not much different from SW:TOR when you look at it from that perspective.

So in effect you want the developers to make up some smoke-and-mirrors bullshit carrot on the stick to trick your mind into constantly playing?

Games are not meant to be played compulsively -- MMOs are bizarre in that regard. It probably confirms various psychology therories on the nature of gambling, addiction, and obsessive behaviours. 

Originally posted by headphones

Originally posted by Xstatic912

Quote "If someone has more time to play than myself, they should not be rewarded with an advantage. The only reason they should be better than me is if they are just that; better than me."

 

Wahh, What!!.. Your telling me i put in more time and effort than you and i shouldn't be rewarded"... Thats like saying i work 80hrs a week and you work 40hrs and becuase you can't work the 80hrs, I shouldn't  be paid (or rewarded) extra.... Can't see the logic.

 

Back to the topic...

I think in a month or 2 people will start to move on from GW 2, not becuase it sucks or anything of the sort.. 

But because it free, and they don't want to get burnt out...

by that argument, i don't see why some people earn millions and i earn a smidgen of that when i work some 50+ hours most weeks and they're working a good deal less. they seem to get long lunch breaks, too. in restaurants and cafes. with other dudes earning the same ridiculous pay. i get half an hour and that's it. my work bonus is a constant pain in my leg, bad lower back, and less superannuation than an ant can pee. and don't say they do their share of work, because work is something i never see them doing.

as for moving on... moving on to ... what? not much else due out at this stage.

if someone else has more time to play, it's because they're unemployed or a student. either way, they're playing on my taxes. in which case, i'm paying for them to play. so they should be giving ME the bonus extras as a thankyou for giving THEM the time to play. because, yes, i'm STILL paying more taxes than those guys going to lunch and getting paid more.

i guess what i'm saying is: life ain't fair, but i'm so glad there's at least one game coming out that's giving me the chance to pretend it could be for a few hours a day...

 

To the OP -

Well some people work 10 hours a week and earn million and some work 50 years ending up broke. So what! If you have the REAL skills in life, and you worked hard at mastering them, then you will dominate in PvP.

Sorry, GW2 is going to be hardcore pro's pvp, Ive been saying that for month's. A year from now, a guy who brags about how good he is in pvp, the first question asked will be, what's your GW2 account name? "I don't play GW2", well then you ain't really got much to brag about.

Call it a hunch.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

wanna know something funny, that arguement means absolutely nothing.

there is no factual statement behind it, there is no Evidence what so ever. the only arguement i have heard is the word Funcom.

and you know what. completely different dev team is working on the game, look up adventure company and you will see who's making the game.

 

Anywho, i may give GW2 a shot if it comes out first, but i got bored of the first one pretty quickly.

I'll give you a bit of an agruement if you want.  I saw Leaked Beta footage about a month ago.  Game has a lot to improve on.  Lots of stuff not even in the game yet that are rather important.  Performance was bad too, though don't know the recorder's system specs.  Still, they have lots of time to fix it.  I'm glad they pushed the release date back a bit from the original rumor of April.  I'm not saying Funcom won't pull it off, it's just it didn't feel nearly as ready as pretty much all playable footage shown from Guild Wars 2 so far.

I was really excited for TSW, but personally a few news bits here and there ever since the announcement of EA co-publishing as put me off to it.  The biggest barrier is the fact that they are already talking about a cash shop along with the sub fee and box price.  Anet continues to impress me though with Guild Wars 2.  One hype replacing the next.

No doubt this is going to be a good year for MMOs.

oh i agree completely. 2012 will be a wicked year for the MMO Genre, hopefully the world doesnt end and we only get it for half a year.

honestly i never expected them to be ready for a perfect release in april. then again i also don't believe in perfect releases. they dont exist. every MMO has stumbled out of the starting gate, so i don't hold it against them. you just gotta give them a little bit of time to get the balencing right and fix the looked over bugs because there were bigger onces staring them in the face. i'm sure GW2 wont be perfect either. but they will fix it, hell if they can fix AO and AoC enough to be consitered good (yes AoC is now consitered good) a game with minor hick ups should be nice and balenced quickly.

i really dont think saying a game is published by EA is even worth mentioning now. they have their name one what, Half the industry. it's not like they actually put anything extra into the games, EA is a simple money grubber. if you are willing to make a MMO they are willing pay for it, so they can reap the benefits. its not like sony who pushed to have certain things changed, we saw how well that turned out.

Originally posted by headphones

Originally posted by Xstatic912

Quote "If someone has more time to play than myself, they should not be rewarded with an advantage. The only reason they should be better than me is if they are just that; better than me."

 

Wahh, What!!.. Your telling me i put in more time and effort than you and i shouldn't be rewarded"... Thats like saying i work 80hrs a week and you work 40hrs and becuase you can't work the 80hrs, I shouldn't  be paid (or rewarded) extra.... Can't see the logic.

 

Back to the topic...

I think in a month or 2 people will start to move on from GW 2, not becuase it sucks or anything of the sort.. 

But because it free, and they don't want to get burnt out...

by that argument, i don't see why some people earn millions and i earn a smidgen of that when i work some 50+ hours most weeks and they're working a good deal less. they seem to get long lunch breaks, too. in restaurants and cafes. with other dudes earning the same ridiculous pay. i get half an hour and that's it. my work bonus is a constant pain in my leg, bad lower back, and less superannuation than an ant can pee. and don't say they do their share of work, because work is something i never see them doing.

as for moving on... moving on to ... what? not much else due out at this stage.

if someone else has more time to play, it's because they're unemployed or a student. either way, they're playing on my taxes. in which case, i'm paying for them to play. so they should be giving ME the bonus extras as a thankyou for giving THEM the time to play. because, yes, i'm STILL paying more taxes than those guys going to lunch and getting paid more.

i guess what i'm saying is: life ain't fair, but i'm so glad there's at least one game coming out that's giving me the chance to pretend it could be for a few hours a day...

 

When i said move on, was talking maybe to console games, or other MMO's/Pc in general..

Quote "if someone else has more time to play, it's because they're unemployed or a student. either way, they're playing on my taxes. in which case, i'm paying for them to play''

That i don't agree with, I work 8 hrs a day, sleep between 3-5, rest is moslty on whatever game i feel to play...

^^^ That's....kind of disturbing....

Originally posted by Bunks

are you kidding, I am spinning my head wondering if there will be enough time to do it all before an expansion is released.

I know for a fact WvW is where I will level up the majority of my main characters. Then forget about the fact you can match play all the classes without even needing to level up. Then watchin a PvE video, I see a guy fall off a rock into a lake, only to find  a cave that had a whole area as big as the open area he just fell from. PVP, Exploration ,WvW battles. Forget about crafting, gathering, the city mini games (have you seen the cities?) it's all quite overwhelming. And notice, I haven't even mention Dynamic world changing events yet.

 

End game is everywhere, it starts at level 1

that right there.. I dunno about most people but me personally have gotten tired of the same exact carrot on a stick MMOs released year after year.. It was pretty fun a decade ago but only so many times i can go through the same exact gear progression when you sit back and say it's just not that fun anymore. 

Originally posted by pharazonic

Originally posted by SuperXero89

I have mixed feelings about endgame in GW2.  On one hand, I'm excited about an MMO that lets me stay competitive even with my limited play time; however, all I keep hearing is how Anet is reducing the gear grind.  Reducing the gear grind without putting anything else in its place just means your game has no endgame content, and people are going to tire out within the first two months.

Not much different from SW:TOR when you look at it from that perspective.

So in effect you want the developers to make up some smoke-and-mirrors bullshit carrot on the stick to trick your mind into constantly playing?

 

Games are not meant to be played compulsively -- MMOs are bizarre in that regard. It probably confirms various psychology therories on the nature of gambling, addiction, and obsessive behaviours. 

 

 

 

Lol, if people complain about becoming bored with SW:TOR after 2 months, how exactly will GW2 escape the same fate without the carrot-on-a-stick gear grind?  You can't do away with something and fail to replace it with a better method.  Some 90% of what Anet promises you can do at max level in GW2 can be done in several other MMORPGs only things like scaling down your level, collecting items, running hard mode dungeons, and exploring aren't really considered endgame content to those players.

The MMORPG genre caters to players who devote their gaming time to one game exclusively, and that's why an MMORPG with only enough appeal to last two months is considered a bad thing.  MMORPGs were originally more or less graphical MUDs where players could actually *gasp* role play in a living, breathing virtual world, hence players spent a LOT of time online in those game worlds.  The grindy mechanics came later.  If any single player game lasted a gamer two full months, it would receive high praise.  

WvsWvsW seems really good Aordem will be there for sure and create a strong pvp comunity.

Originally posted by Monorojo

No gear progression in PvP, no raids for PvE raid progression, you can hit level cap insanely quickly....is this going to be like ToR and people will just make alts upon alts? I do not see the incentive to keep playing, where is the carrot?

if u need a carrot to play .....a videogame.....u are doing it wrong

u play games ....to have........ehm.... .fun?

Originally posted by Xstatic912

Quote "If someone has more time to play than myself, they should not be rewarded with an advantage. The only reason they should be better than me is if they are just that; better than me."

 

Wahh, What!!.. Your telling me i put in more time and effort than you and i shouldn't be rewarded"... Thats like saying i work 80hrs a week and you work 40hrs and becuase you can't work the 80hrs, I shouldn't  be paid (or rewarded) extra.... Can't see the logic.

 

Back to the topic...

I think in a month or 2 people will start to move on from GW 2, not becuase it sucks or anything of the sort.. 

But because it free, and they don't want to get burnt out...

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by pharazonic

Originally posted by SuperXero89

I have mixed feelings about endgame in GW2.  On one hand, I'm excited about an MMO that lets me stay competitive even with my limited play time; however, all I keep hearing is how Anet is reducing the gear grind.  Reducing the gear grind without putting anything else in its place just means your game has no endgame content, and people are going to tire out within the first two months.

Not much different from SW:TOR when you look at it from that perspective.

So in effect you want the developers to make up some smoke-and-mirrors bullshit carrot on the stick to trick your mind into constantly playing?

 

Games are not meant to be played compulsively -- MMOs are bizarre in that regard. It probably confirms various psychology therories on the nature of gambling, addiction, and obsessive behaviours. 

 

 

 

Lol, if people complain about becoming bored with SW:TOR after 2 months, how exactly will GW2 escape the same fate without the carrot-on-a-stick gear grind?  You can't do away with something and fail to replace it with a better method.  Some 90% of what Anet promises you can do at max level in GW2 can be done in several other MMORPGs only things like scaling down your level, collecting items, running hard mode dungeons, and exploring aren't really considered endgame content to those players.

The MMORPG genre caters to players who devote their gaming time to one game exclusively, and that's why an MMORPG with only enough appeal to last two months is considered a bad thing.  MMORPGs were originally more or less graphical MUDs where players could actually *gasp* role play in a living, breathing virtual world, hence players spent a LOT of time online in those game worlds.  The grindy mechanics came later.  If any single player game lasted a gamer two full months, it would receive high praise.  

I like how some hint that that older MMOs were living, breathing worlds. Persistant, yes...living, breathing...Heck no...

GW2 does not use the traditional gear grind as the endgame as this system is...well..tiring and is best left behind for current gen mmos. Having said this, there is endgame at every turn be it:

Dynamic Events - of which there are 1500 of them and people will be hard pressed to experience every single DE in the game.

Dungeons - even if you do manage to beat the story mode which is apparently tough to complete, each dungeon opens up with 3 paths you can choose from. This is explorable mode which is even harder than the story mode. You can kinda gear grind in a sense that you can collect tokens for the completion of a particular dungeon and use them to obtain the gear you want that is specifically unique to that dungeon.

WvWvW PvP.

Structured PvP.

Mini social games - 30 of them scattered around the towns of Tyria.

In game achievements - many MANY of them.

As you can see, endgame is everywhere. That is why the ArenaNet developers keep repeating that they want Guild Wars itself to be the endgame as you can do any of these mentioned things at any point in time instead of having to reach the lvl 80 to start on the endgame.

Hope that helps to answer your question.