Originally posted by Sanctum

crewthief, shut the hell up. I love all of that, but your blind following of Anet is disturbing. Stop being a stupid fanboy and start thinking objectively.

Why not get the best of both worlds? Like I said, with no gear impediments, raiding would be fucking insane and be all about skill, not about who grinded every week with their guild for gear and got lucky with the rolls.

Okay, don't tell me to shut up. I am not a blind follower, but it so happens i'm fed up with all this shit you carebears keep QQing about. GW2 isn't the game you're looking for. There are literally dozens upon dozens of those types of games out there. Go play one please.

This game, much like Guild Wars, will be more PvP based endgame.  I for one hate raiding....I would love it if it didn't take 3+ hours to complete some of the content.  This is probably the reason I love dungeons that take less than an hour, I would rather do those every day than PvP.  These days that is far to long to allocate time for gaming.

Anyways, I am going into this game planning for the server vs. server vs. server fun in the PvP world as my endgame.  My hope is that this brings the guilds together of one server rather than cause some rifts between the community on who's guild is better.  The thought should now be who's server is better.

Originally posted by Purutzil

Really hope they add raiding... its one of the things that keeps me entertained. Sure, they could do insanely hard 5 man content, but I rather be able to get a nice big group of guildies together to accomplish difficult tasks together rather then splitting up into small groups.

I was just saying in another post, I think if you described it as 10 man instances with the exact same gamestyle and rewards as 5 man then it could be fun.  The word raiding conjures up images of tiered gear grinding, progressing stats which is poison to this game.

Originally posted by crewthief

Originally posted by Sanctum

crewthief, shut the hell up. I love all of that, but your blind following of Anet is disturbing. Stop being a stupid fanboy and start thinking objectively.

Why not get the best of both worlds? Like I said, with no gear impediments, raiding would be fucking insane and be all about skill, not about who grinded every week with their guild for gear and got lucky with the rolls.

Okay, don't tell me to shut up. I am not a blind follower, but it so happens i'm fed up with all this shit you carebears keep QQing about. GW2 isn't the game you're looking for. There are literally dozens upon dozens of those types of games out there. Go play one please.

Carebears??? I'm probobly a better PvPer than you'll ever be. What is so carebearish about wanting challenging PvE content in a game where gear isn't the reason why you're brang to challenging raids. With only skill as the reason to take you to raids/5mans/pve encounters, I would sure enjoy PvE a lot more than I have enjoyed it in other games.

You are a fanboy/blind follower. You don't even argue why the decisions Anet has taken are the right ones.

There's no game out in the market that =

- AAA

- Focus on PvP

- No gear progression -> hard pve encounters

I literally play every game to PvP, yet with a PvE system that eliminates the grind and rewards skill, HELL YEAH I'LL PVE.

Full info is not release yet   ithink the game gonna have raids  having more than 5 pp and in 1 interview they say  that thegame not gonna have mount on release wish mean later they gonna make more things like mount but not evrything will be on on release , maybe in future patch or expantion

Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by Purutzil

Really hope they add raiding... its one of the things that keeps me entertained. Sure, they could do insanely hard 5 man content, but I rather be able to get a nice big group of guildies together to accomplish difficult tasks together rather then splitting up into small groups.

I was just saying in another post, I think if you described it as 10 man instances with the exact same gamestyle and rewards as 5 man then it could be fun.  The word raiding conjures up images of tiered gear grinding, progressing stats which is poison to this game.

 

This so much, except I'm even POINTING OUT, raiding/5mans/w/e without gear progression

I just want a PvE system that has easy-mid-hard-very hard pve encounters with no gear progression

tbh even if I play every game to PvP, I don't even like WvWvW that much. I value skill over everything. It's the reason why I like competitive, structured pvp, over world pvp and bgs.

If the PvE system on release is like the one I described above, I will most likely spend all of my time between conquest and hard pve encounters with barely any time dedicated to WvWvW unless I go with friends.

I think raiders will have to accept the fact that they will have to get their instanced raiding fix in another game.

Originally posted by Sanctum

Originally posted by crewthief

Originally posted by Sanctum

crewthief, shut the hell up. I love all of that, but your blind following of Anet is disturbing. Stop being a stupid fanboy and start thinking objectively.

Why not get the best of both worlds? Like I said, with no gear impediments, raiding would be fucking insane and be all about skill, not about who grinded every week with their guild for gear and got lucky with the rolls.

Okay, don't tell me to shut up. I am not a blind follower, but it so happens i'm fed up with all this shit you carebears keep QQing about. GW2 isn't the game you're looking for. There are literally dozens upon dozens of those types of games out there. Go play one please.

Carebears??? I'm probobly a better PvPer than you'll ever be. What is so carebearish about wanting challenging PvE content in a game where gear isn't the reason why you're brang to challenging raids. With only skill as the reason to take you to raids/5mans/pve encounters, I would sure enjoy PvE a lot more than I have enjoyed it in other games.

You are a fanboy/blind follower. You don't even argue why the decisions Anet has taken are the right ones.

 

There's no game out in the market that =

- AAA

- Focus on PvP

- No gear progression -> hard pve encounters

 

 

I literally play every game to PvP, yet with a PvE system that eliminates the grind and rewards skill, HELL YEAH I'LL PVE.

Of course you're better at PvP than I am, LOL. Is this some kind of competition or epeen contest and i'm unaware? Isn't it self-explanatory, in one of my previous posts, why I like the direction Anet is taking the game? Do I need to break it down for you? Dungeons are confirmed, scaling DEs are confirmed, elite DEs are confirmed...what's the problem? I think I know...you want it your way, you want your raid content. As I stated earlier, there are literally dozens upon dozens of games that do raids, play one of those instead. Comparatively, there are very few MMOs on the market that take into account the serious PvPer, thankfully GW2 looks to be one of them. Of course, you already know that as you've stated how amazing you are in a PvP situation...

Originally posted by Purutzil

Really hope they add raiding... its one of the things that keeps me entertained. Sure, they could do insanely hard 5 man content, but I rather be able to get a nice big group of guildies together to accomplish difficult tasks together rather then splitting up into small groups.

then do so, go find a dynamic event and push it till you get till the final boss. it scales to so it doesn't matter how large your guild is you can bring your ENTIRE guild.

there not being any instances doesn't mean there is no raiding. you guys will either have to say in guild

"hey the Shatterer (or whatever boss) dynamic event is starting we should all port to <insert location> and raid it".

seriously. if this is the one thing that breaks the deal for you, go play a game that's based around raiding. hell, wait 'til copernicus comes out. schilling is supposed to be all about the raiding. GW2 is not the game for you if you want raiding. stop trying to twist it to fit your wishes. if you want a big, tough raid with all your guildies in GW2, then go make a run for another server's orb. can't beat human ingenuity for a challenge!

Most of the game is going to be open world raiding...

In the sense that most of the game is large scale group content...

with "trash" pulls that lead to bosses and loot.

IMO?

All the good of raiding, none of the crap.

And I like traditional raiding (for the most part.)

Originally posted by DJJazzy

I think raiders will have to accept the fact that they will have to get their instanced raiding fix in another game.

The reason this is creating consternation among so many raiders is simple, but a bit subtle.

Raiding is all about being further ahead in achievements than other players - which, conveniently, can be displayed visually through equipped gear, or through other measures like gear score.  (It's not about the challenge - as has been pointed out many times, raiding is actually rather easy for most players who have the time to commit to it and who are willing to wait for someone else to figure out the encounters first.)  The problem is, being ahead of everyone else can be difficult in a game where there isn't a way that is easy - if time-consuming - to do so.

At least with other new releases that have raiding content, there is an opportunity to go through the same routine:  re-form the guild, play marathon sessions for a few weeks to get to cap level, then start the seven-day raiding schedule again.  It's not as convenient as staying with A Certain Game That Shall Not Be Named, but it can be done.  There is an expectation that it will only be a matter of time before hardcore players are standing (or floating) in front of the Auction House wearing their top-tier armor.

But if a game comes out with no raiding content, it can't be done.  How do you demonstrate your superiority over other players with no clearly defined end-game content?  You don't.  Or you have to win PvP, which is all about skill - which poses obvious problems to any number of raiders.

So, you complain and whine that there won't be raiding content available - even if you have no intention of playing the game.

I will add that the no-raiding model is doubly challenging to egomaniacal guild leaders.  Raid invitations are the currency that guild leaders use to buy the loyalty of their minions, and exclusion from raids is the hammer that guild leaders use to punish dissenters.  But once players don't need raids to experience the game content, they don't need guilds - and they don't need to put up with guild dictators.  If the wannabe guild dictators see a new game coming out that does not give them the opportunity to control other people, they are going to find a reason to complain.

Originally posted by Sanctum

Originally posted by echolynfan

Originally posted by select20

I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

(I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

Best news I've heard about GW2 so far - raiding SUCKS - most boring game play mechanic ever invented. Someone here posted once that Raiding is "a hamster grind of memorized dance steps" and I so agree.

Why? Half the people who say this shit are bad at PvP and havn't done any competitive PvP in any game. I play every single game with competitive PvP as my main focus, yet I still find raiding to be necessary. Or not even raiding, but a challenging PvE system. Why is that? Because if more people play the game (almost all mmo players are pvers), more people will start PvPing and it will be more active. I also enjoy PvEing every once in a while. Not to mention with little to no gear progression, if you're skilled enough you'll be able to jump into very challenging raids/pve encounters with your friends/guildies.

No need to raid every single week 24/7 to get gear to progress with all your guild. Now you would only have to be skilled enough to be competent enough to raid with your guildies who raid 24/7. It's a system that has so much potential and takes out so much grind out of PvE. So if they implement very hard PvE encounters/5 mans I'll be very happy.

Huh? Most of the people that like to PVP don't raid or do much PVE stuff - what are you smoking?

I've done plenty of competitive PVP on many MMO's and some really hardcore PVP stuff as well. Raiding is just memorizing stuff for gear - BORING. There are so mnay other more interesting aspects of gaming than Raiding or doing the same dungeons over and over and over again.

You also say that you find raiding "necessary" which is very telling since you didn't use the word "fun"

I play games to have fun - not do things that are "necessary" thank you.

Tiered Raiding can be fun, it is also one of the major flaws in MMOs today.

I was in top guild in WoW (yeah yeah whatever!), i actually studied combat and raid logs to find new ways to beat dungeons ( stupid C'Thun >_< ), and while that was fun for me i know for a fact that for 90% of my guild people only raided to get gear and to brag, in the end no one had fun running the same dungeons over and over for gear, specially being so trivial due to most people outgearing them so heavily.

From a developers point of view it's an outdated form of deceiving the players ( ok deceiving might be a bit too much, let's call it leading them on), this might be important in games that have a monthly fee, keeping a large amount of people repeating the same exact content over and over expecting drops is a nice way to ilude them into progression...when they really aren't.

(Think of all the problems it causes to gear balance/pvp balance/old content balance/ level of entry/ organization problems and so on)

I would love something like Karazhan, it has a solid progression can be done in many different ways and in short periods of time, but old school Molten Core etc?

Never again.

A.net is all about not repeating other games mistakes, so no tiered raiding.

With that said, i expect a.net to provide more avid PVE'ers with dungeons and large event that require alot of coordination and somehow i feel like they will.

The raiding i would love in GW2:

- Large scale dinamic events that are extremely hard and preety much impossible to beat except with alot of coordination.

- Adding one large dungeon that takes more then one night to finish with different wings and challenges

- Adding one dungeon that randomizes the maps and enemies (kind of like diablo)

- One open pve dungeon in the WvWvW map where the 3 factions duel it out to kill the bosses. 

Originally posted by atticusbc

 if you want a big, tough raid with all your guildies in GW2, then go make a run for another server's orb. can't beat human ingenuity for a challenge!

but but but humans don't have scripts i can follow!

and boy wont raiders be pissed when they find out that even the hardest 5 man content wont give you uber loot .. just more unique looks.

Originally posted by Rivalen

- Large scale dinamic events that are extremely hard and preety much impossible to beat except with alot of coordination.

from the latest post, it seemed like this is what they're aiming for with the meta-events.

I am more curious why this thread is still progressing, i mean people need to get over the fact that this game might not be fore them and expecting the developers to go against what they have set down as there goals for tha game seems a bit ridiculous.

I thank god i will never have to consider doing raids in this game, not that i even bother with them in the current crop of games but there is always that niggling thought at the back of my head "am i gimping myself by not raiding?" With GW2 i wont have to worry about that silliness anymore.

I think it has been touched upon by several of the posters in this thread what this "No raid" fear is from, and i think its the selfish mentality that has been engrained upon the minds of the WoW/Clones gamers who desire the meme mentality. 

Grouping together, Cooperation, and comraderie have been sorely lacking in the recent years, yes raiding grouped players but it was boiled down into just a way to improve your character not an experience to enjoy. 

A simple example is the cross server dungron and raid Qs that have been recently implemented in the WoW/Clones, look the the fervent call for adding everything from WoW into SWTOR.

Anywho, guess people will expect everything should be the way they want it no matter the costs to others. (i am just as bad but GW2 is my last hope till maybe other devs step up[ and take notice).

This thread is getting useless as fast as threads about words like sandbox. 

It seems to me that certain players are 'programmed' to expect certain specific mechanics from raiding in a MMO. If you forget about this for a second, then raiding just means to combine forces to overcome an enemy. Those annoying sidemechanics are no requirement at all for raiding.

When people say that they dont want raids, they usually mean that they dont want the gear treadmill, lockout timers etc.

Those huge dynamic events that scale to 100 players can be seen as raids too. If you want take down the strongest boss, you will need to combine forces to make that happen aka raiding.

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by atticusbc

 if you want a big, tough raid with all your guildies in GW2, then go make a run for another server's orb. can't beat human ingenuity for a challenge!

but but but humans don't have scripts i can follow!

Which is really what it's about - "classic" MMOs cater to the control freak from start to finish.  Every encounter is tightly scripted, every enemy is almost completely predictable, every loot drop comes from a strictly defined loot table, etc., etc.  Even combat is tightly scripted, with relatively few random events like critical strikes and dodges (and even those are unpopular with players, to the point that designers have been more inclined to limit or remove them).

If anything, I would like to see more variability in GW2 - randomized dungeons would be nice, for one (please tell me that at least the traps and puzzles are randomized - having pre-defined traps and puzzles would be utterly pointless, as players would have them figured out in no time flat).  Also, I like the dodging, although it would be great if monsters had more interesting abilities they could use to add more variability to fights.  It would also be interesting to have monsters occasionally have random, surprising abilities - e.g., every once in a while a monster has a special critical strike ability, and so forth.  And I am all for more variability in loot tables, including (heresy!) global drops.