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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Greg Z of BioWare kinda confirms TOR is essentially a 'WoW clone'

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52 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

2/19/12 1:02:49 PM#41
Originally posted by biggarfoot

But I still stand my ground that a game that has just been released should never let a player get to level cap in such a short space of time,  It stops being an MMO imho,  MMO's should have a long life and we should be on a journey not a race,  Ive reiterated the same message in other posts, but I guess players dont want that anymore.

I want level cap I want to be at the end of the game before my next subs are due is the mentality players like myself are fighting against these days.  A very sorry state of affairs, and a sad time for MMO's to go on this way.

I agree to an extent but not sure in this game. I mean some already complain about how long they're stuck on certain planets. If the leveling was lowere so they were there longer...not so sure that would work in this game. Least not with the current amount of content available and design.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8152

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

2/19/12 5:34:06 PM#42
Originally posted by DeaconX

I was reading this article and when I got to the quote by Greg Z of BioWare, I was kinda sad.  It's basically admitting they went at SWTOR as a WoW clone, as what he seems to understand is WoW is how all MMO's should be...



"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."


I've met the man briefly.  He's a genuinely sweet man.  But I must respectfully disagree.... then again, I'm just a lowly writer and he's ballin' in the game's industry like there's no tomorrow so...


Still, I look forward to GW2/TSW where the developers looked at WoW and decided "nah, that's not our bible or blueprint."

You know the funny thing is, they managed succesfully to avoid all the good stuff from WOW.

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/07
Posts: 478

2/20/12 5:08:42 AM#43

BioWare's success is in a large way in spite of itself not because of it.  They don't design good game systems in my opinion, which is why I think their best products were ports of table top RPG rules.  The Dragon Age numbers aren't even close to making sense, and Mass Effect is a pretty systems-lite game. 


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 788

Your tears make my gun work better.

2/20/12 5:19:30 AM#44
Originally posted by blondeh

old news, been posted before....


next attempt at swtor bashing thread plz...

Yes it has.  However, still relevent information.  There is no need for a SWTOR bashing thread.  If people enjoy being led by the  nose to end game, and then having nothing really to do, then let them.  If that is what is entertaining to you, then so be it.


I, for one, enjoy a bit of mental stimulation when I relax.  The WoW blueprint does not work for me anymore.


As always though, SWTOR NAILED it, with the voice acting, I am sure keyboard companies everywhere are loving the spike in sales from people wearing out their space bar.  Yeah...that is what SWTOR brought us.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 312

2/20/12 5:47:07 AM#45

Hands down SWTOR is the best WoW Clone but im down for now with WoW after several years its boring as hell. I found rift even more entertaining with some new feauteres then swtor.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/12
Posts: 987

2/20/12 6:30:26 AM#46

Some people are starting to wake up over at swtor now, staunch defenders once, are now seeing the bigger picture to what some of us have said all along. This guy made a great point and I can't say it any better.

I want to chime in and say that I agree with everything you've said. Especially this paragraph and the last sentence. I can only say that every bad thing is a blessing in disguise. If this game means that we will finally see the death of so many mediocre and ancient mechanics, then so be it. I only hope that all of the MMORPGs in development or just in the idea phase, scribbled on a cocktail napkin somewhere, take notice of what's happened here and strive to avoid it.
and the person who followed up on it made it complete.
I was excited for this game. I played it and I hated it. I really don't see this game recovering so I want it to bomb so hard that no developer EVER considers creating something like this again.
What some people call hate, others could call passion or love of a hobby. That's how I see this. The harder we see games like WOW and Swtor fall, the better off the hobby will be. Now that may still be one opinion vs another, but it still doesn't give anyone the moral high ground to say one persons post is irrelevant or hate, since both have valid reason to do so on a discussion forum about gaming.

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

2/20/12 7:54:07 PM#47
Originally posted by NasherUK

A lot of people posting saying the game is just a wow clone clearly have not played it.  Also TOR has been out 2 months and already has FAR more content than wow did for about 2 years...


Appart from some basic content that people expect, the game is very different from wow.  It feels like KOTOR as you would expect.  The combat is far more tactical than anything in wow and the whole game has a different feel to it (which a lot of wow fanbois just cant handle, because its actually challening).


Also people seem to have forgot that WOW is a dumbed down clone of EQ, almost all the content in wow was taken from earlier games.  It's just that those earlier games were in the days when MMORPGs were not mainstream so not many played them.

We need to make a "syllabus of errors" for fanbois, so they know which arguments they should never use again.

This is at the top of the list.  TOR isn't competing with "what game X had for about two years when it launched."  It is competing against, and is to be measured, against games as they exist now.

WoW did indeed copy a lot of things.  But the changes they've made over the game was completely different than EQ.  The amount of polish they put into it was far higher than EQ.  The deceptive ways they handled things like zoning/instancing.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

2/20/12 8:08:09 PM#48

    Nice attempt at bashing there OP.  Well at least it would be if it hadn't been done a few hundred times before in the last year or so.  This is so old and over argued that even most children are tired of it.

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  User Deleted
2/20/12 8:14:09 PM#49

I pretty much stated the same thing last year when I was laughed at by this very board.


Didnt deter me though because I knew eventually people would of seen just how bad this game really is.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 900

2/20/12 8:16:57 PM#50
Originally posted by Zylaxx

I pretty much stated the same thing last year when I was laughed at by this very board.

 Same. I saw through BW's PR spin for what this game was (direction-lacking WoW clone without an ounce of the charm and panache WoW offers).

Didnt deter me though because I knew eventually people would of seen just how bad this game really is.

It's interesting for sure at how this game essentially plummetted after release. It's always sad when a game fails so hard but in this case, I do feel a touch of vindication.


"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

I need to take this advice more.


Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 17519

2/20/12 8:24:06 PM#51
Originally posted by DeaconX

I was reading this article and when I got to the quote by Greg Z of BioWare, I was kinda sad.  It's basically admitting they went at SWTOR as a WoW clone, as what he seems to understand is WoW is how all MMO's should be...



"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

I've met the man briefly.  He's a genuinely sweet man.  But I must respectfully disagree.... then again, I'm just a lowly writer and he's ballin' in the game's industry like there's no tomorrow so...

Still, I look forward to GW2/TSW where the developers looked at WoW and decided "nah, that's not our bible or blueprint."

Lol, what do you want him to say? That the game is completely new and innovative or something?

EA decided that they wanted their own version of Wow and bought up Bioware who just got the license for a KOTOR MMO. EA ain´t intrested in taking a hige risk like nc soft is funding GW2 or Microsoft in funding Class 4.

That does not mean TOR is a bad game or anything but it ses Wow mechanics together with Biowares storytelling, something that hardly is news to anyone. 

Heck, if EA got to decide the game market would be just like EA sports, a new release of more or less the same game every year. Bioware at least did a pretty good job with what they decided to do.

If GW2 becomes huge I can tell you that EA will order one of their companies to copy it. That is what they have been doing since they stopped making Amiga games (which they actually did really well a long time ago).


Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

2/21/12 2:04:54 AM#52

(messed up topics :s)

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

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