Originally posted by Dameonk

For anyone that doesn't want to read this whole thread, I'll summarise.

OP: MMORPG staffer says game is good!

Positive responders: Cool, I new it would be!

Negative responders: No it's not!

Neutral responders: I'm skeptical!

There you have it.

You just described all the threads within mmorpg.com

Originally posted by Bunks

Sub fees are a scam, almost like warranties on tangible products. B2P with continuing customer support, puts more pressure on the comapany not the consumer.

Buy to play is a scam. The company has zero accountability to the player base. You better damn well believe if GW had a sub fee when it was released you would have the ability to jump by the end of 6 months.

The company can do whatever they want and say screw the playerbase. Entire game is built on vanity items and cash shops with no actual end game content.

This is like Totalbiscuit magically becoming a fan of Guild Wars. That guy has not said jack shit about GW in the last 6 years, but he see's dollar signs. Apparently guild wars fans are damn easy to pander too.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Bunks

Sub fees are a scam, almost like warranties on tangible products. B2P with continuing customer support, puts more pressure on the comapany not the consumer.

Buy to play is a scam. The company has zero accountability to the player base. You better damn well believe if GW had a sub fee when it was released you would have the ability to jump by the end of 6 months.

 

The company can do whatever they want and say screw the playerbase. Entire game is built on vanity items and cash shops with no actual end game content.

 

This is like Totalbiscuit magically becoming a fan of Guild Wars. That guy has not said jack shit about GW in the last 6 years, but he see's dollar signs. Apparently guild wars fans are damn easy to pander too.

If they make a bad product, their products will not sell as well the next time around.  So when you say they have zero accountability to the player base, you are assuming that the player base stays the same size.  It will shrink if they make a bad product and their revenues will suffer for it.  Saying that B2P does not motivate the company to make a quality product is ignoring the effect that one bad product can have on a companies reputation.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Bunks

Sub fees are a scam, almost like warranties on tangible products. B2P with continuing customer support, puts more pressure on the comapany not the consumer.

Buy to play is a scam. The company has zero accountability to the player base. You better damn well believe if GW had a sub fee when it was released you would have the ability to jump by the end of 6 months.

 

The company can do whatever they want and say screw the playerbase. Entire game is built on vanity items and cash shops with no actual end game content.

 

This is like Totalbiscuit magically becoming a fan of Guild Wars. That guy has not said jack shit about GW in the last 6 years, but he see's dollar signs. Apparently guild wars fans are damn easy to pander too.

Sorry, b2p is no different then buying any product. Sub fees are a milking system just like pruduct warrenties. If the product was made well in the first place, it shouldnt need one.

WOW was the only game that made more profit from its subs than the sale of its product. Only companies know this but still see the tack on fee as free cash. Lifetime subs means the death of a game bceause all the incentive to support the product is then gone for the company, maximizing profits only by cutting operating costs.  Sub fees are merley a sliding scale to this end, with lifetime subs being the far end of the spectrum.

Anet is putting itself on the line by going b2p and producing a game that requires ongoing maintenance. Its not a signle player product. So they intend to make money with additional sales (expansions). This model puts the pressure and the reward all on them. Bettter for you and better for them.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Bunks

Sub fees are a scam, almost like warranties on tangible products. B2P with continuing customer support, puts more pressure on the comapany not the consumer.

Buy to play is a scam. The company has zero accountability to the player base. You better damn well believe if GW had a sub fee when it was released you would have the ability to jump by the end of 6 months.

 

The company can do whatever they want and say screw the playerbase. Entire game is built on vanity items and cash shops with no actual end game content.

 

This is like Totalbiscuit magically becoming a fan of Guild Wars. That guy has not said jack shit about GW in the last 6 years, but he see's dollar signs. Apparently guild wars fans are damn easy to pander too.

Lol, conspiracy theories much? He didn't say much, played the gamescon demo and was blown away by it. Then he liked it. It's not magic, it's a good game. Deal with it. He also didn't happen to find TERA all that great and got bored of ToR. Did he paid off for that too? Did he also get paid off to not like the deep sea fishing game? Did he paid off to like shank 2?

Also, GW wouldn't have gained jumping, ever, the maps simply weren't built to accomodate it :p a lot of the early missions would be broken by jumping, as you could skip important fights. Instead it gained more content than any P2P bar WoW has even gained. GW's expansions added more PvE content than the original game had each time.

So again, what are you talking about again? because to me it looks like a point made out of ignorance :) Just read up a bit more and stop being such a crackpot consipiracy theorist where everone has to be 'bought off' to like something :p

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r

Originally posted by sgel

Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r

Originally posted by sgel

Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r

I really don't care about the hype dear sir ... but I do care about the game. So please review the game and forget the hype.

He was kind of giving you details about the game by referencing the hype

Det...whaa...ahem nvm.

 

 

.. but still ... DETAILS? lol l now understand why some game reviews can be deemed as "detailed"

yes I should have said "information" and not "details"

Thanks for reminding me in your unique "creative" way

Trust me I am so sick of "informations" based on hype. Maybe it is just me.

It's not hype when lots of people have actually played the game.

Lots of people had played Age of Conan, Warhammer and whatever else games that have failed to live up to the hype the past 6 years. Those games were played ALOT before release and alot of the hype was based on people playing it, so it dosent mean shit.

Guild Wars 2 is maybe on of the least played games with such big hype. I know atleast Age of Conan had a vert big Closed Beta that ran for over 6-8 months that had the full game in it (not just a few zones or battlegrounds to test only this and that, allthough they had that aswell) with lots of people playing it. And the hype for AoC was pretty insane and we all know how that ended up.

Guild Wars 2 Closed Beta is almost non-existant, and the stuff you get to play at Cons are only some specific parts and only the more polished stuff since they just want to show off the game.

Im not saying Guild Wars 2 will fail or that the hype is just bullshit, im very much looking forward to it myself and i hope it will be as great as people say! But the hype its getting is abit much, it will just get people dissapointed if it dosent live up to it all.

Im still confused as why hype bothers so many people.  How does someone else's hype for a game affect you. Games that look good fail, games that dont look so good can make it and everything else in between.

"Hype" doesnt affect that outcome as much as people here seem to believe.  

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Bunks

Sub fees are a scam, almost like warranties on tangible products. B2P with continuing customer support, puts more pressure on the comapany not the consumer.

Buy to play is a scam. The company has zero accountability to the player base. You better damn well believe if GW had a sub fee when it was released you would have the ability to jump by the end of 6 months.

 

The company can do whatever they want and say screw the playerbase. Entire game is built on vanity items and cash shops with no actual end game content.

 

This is like Totalbiscuit magically becoming a fan of Guild Wars. That guy has not said jack shit about GW in the last 6 years, but he see's dollar signs. Apparently guild wars fans are damn easy to pander too.

Lol I'm not gonna lie this is a funny read.

Pure I gotta give you cred for having a strong dislike for GW 2,SWTOR,Tera, and possibly ArchAge?

Rift was and still is a good game IMO, I'd be playin it right now if it didn't have a sub. Waiting for Tera beta and GW 2 release is fustrating lol.

Originally posted by Proson

 Lots of people had played Age of Conan...

Guild Wars 2 is maybe on of the least played games with such big hype. I know atleast Age of Conan had a vert big Closed Beta that ran for over 6-8 months that had the full game in it (not just a few zones or battlegrounds to test only this and that, allthough they had that aswell) with lots of people playing it. And the hype for AoC was pretty insane and we all know how that ended up.

I remember AoC getting a lot of attention but I also remember it getting as much bad 'hype' as it did good... the battle then was between the AoC fans and the WAR fans for a long time though and a lot of the negatives on both side were dimissed by their respective fans as 'hate'. To people paying attention though it was no surprise how AoC 'ended up'.

I guess what I am saying is that there was no shortage of bad views on AoC pre-launch. It wasn't a 'hype' of excitement in general, it was the hype of arguing. You could even say that that period (as well as Darkfall's long term epic flame wars) that pretty much changed the culture around here in alot of bad ways... but thats off the point.

GW2 has, I feel, a genuine hype of player excitement going on. Not generated by hyperbole or false claims from the industry, but the appeal of what has been actually been seen by the customers. Even the nay sayers can't find serious objections to argue over...

This next week will be a pivitol point I think, with all the info thats gonna come.

Originally posted by RizelStar

Rift was and still is a good game IMO, I'd be playin it right now if it didn't have a sub. Waiting for Tera beta and GW 2 release is fustrating lol.

It's off topic and this is all I will say, but it really REALLY confuses me that £2.50 a week stops people from playing a game they obviously enjoy...

£2.50...

*shakes head*

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by RizelStar

Rift was and still is a good game IMO, I'd be playin it right now if it didn't have a sub. Waiting for Tera beta and GW 2 release is fustrating lol.

 

It's off topic and this is all I will say, but it really REALLY confuses me that £2.50 a week stops people from playing a game they obviously enjoy...

£2.50...

*shakes head*

I've never understood this either.  My RIFT sub fee comes to $3.25 per week.  I can't get by with spending that for lunch and beverages in a week (not even close).  RIFT is the best money I've spent on a sub fee since Lineage.

I'm not against B2P either.  I still log in to Guild Wars sometimes and play it with my wife and son.  I do have to agree with the poster above that said a flaw in B2P is lack of accountability.  ANet had big plans for Guild Wars, but was really light on content releases up a little bit after Eye of the North when they started actively marketing GW1 players for GW2.  We finally started getting some content quests and story lines that are leads-ins to GW2.

F2P and B2P games still have a cost associated with them just like P2P.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by RizelStar

Rift was and still is a good game IMO, I'd be playin it right now if it didn't have a sub. Waiting for Tera beta and GW 2 release is fustrating lol.

 

It's off topic and this is all I will say, but it really REALLY confuses me that £2.50 a week stops people from playing a game they obviously enjoy...

£2.50...

*shakes head*

I've never understood this either.  My RIFT sub fee comes to $3.25 per week.  I can't get by with spending that for lunch and beverages in a week (not even close).  RIFT is the best money I've spent on a sub fee since Lineage.

I'm not against B2P either.  I still log in to Guild Wars sometimes and play it with my wife and son.  I do have to agree with the poster above that said a flaw in B2P is lack of accountability.  ANet had big plans for Guild Wars, but was really light on content releases up a little bit after Eye of the North when they started actively marketing GW1 players for GW2.  We finally started getting some content quests and story lines that are leads-ins to GW2.

F2P and B2P games still have a cost associated with them just like P2P.

 

 And I've never understood why anytime someone has a complaint or a problem with paying a sub, the people that see no problem with it always make it about being able to afford or not afford it. I have been paying for 2 of everything for over 5 years now and I have never viewed the cost of box and sub as a problem because I have trouble affording it. But now that there is a choice, other than to not play at all, and a team saying that they want to prove that the sub fee is not a cecessary cost as others have made us all beleive, then I am willing to give them a shot to prove it. 

As far as Rift being the best money spent, I can say I strongly disagree with that statement since I bought 3 copies and none of the three of us that tried the game made it past the first month.  At least it was only $180 down the drain but you won't see me in the Rifts forums crying because it broke me, the game was just shitty and wasn't worth more invetment of time or money as far as the three of us were concerened. I am not against P2P exactly because I have had no problems with them in the past aside form the fact that no games released in the last 6 or so years have been worth it, I am more against summing all the people with a problem with the P2P model as broke, or to cheap to make a rational decision on what their money is worth. 

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by RizelStar

Rift was and still is a good game IMO, I'd be playin it right now if it didn't have a sub. Waiting for Tera beta and GW 2 release is fustrating lol.

 

It's off topic and this is all I will say, but it really REALLY confuses me that £2.50 a week stops people from playing a game they obviously enjoy...

£2.50...

*shakes head*

I've never understood this either.  My RIFT sub fee comes to $3.25 per week.  I can't get by with spending that for lunch and beverages in a week (not even close).  RIFT is the best money I've spent on a sub fee since Lineage.

I'm not against B2P either.  I still log in to Guild Wars sometimes and play it with my wife and son.  I do have to agree with the poster above that said a flaw in B2P is lack of accountability.  ANet had big plans for Guild Wars, but was really light on content releases up a little bit after Eye of the North when they started actively marketing GW1 players for GW2.  We finally started getting some content quests and story lines that are leads-ins to GW2.

F2P and B2P games still have a cost associated with them just like P2P.

 

 And I've never understood why anytime someone has a complaint or a problem with paying a sub, the people that see no problem with it always make it about being able to afford or not afford it. I have been paying for 2 of everything for over 5 years now and I have never viewed the cost of box and sub as a problem because I have trouble affording it. But now that there is a choice, other than to not play at all, and a team saying that they want to prove that the sub fee is not a cecessary cost as others have made us all beleive, then I am willing to give them a shot to prove it. 

As far as Rift being the best money spent, I can say I strongly disagree with that statement since I bought 3 copies and none of the three of us that tried the game made it past the first month.  At least it was only $180 down the drain but you won't see me in the Rifts forums crying because it broke me, the game was just shitty and wasn't worth more invetment of time or money as far as the three of us were concerened. I am not against P2P exactly because I have had no problems with them in the past aside form the fact that no games released in the last 6 or so years have been worth it, I am more against summing all the people with a problem with the P2P model as broke, or to cheap to make a rational decision on what their money is worth. 

Your rant doesnt really relate to what he said at all.  First off, he said its the best money HE ever spent. Not the best money anyone could spend. And the initial quote was talking about how the guy said he would still play it if there was no sub.  You need to really calm down. People have different opinions than you, its not the end of the world.

Originally posted by dinams

GW2 does not cure cancer?

Man I will not play it anymore

No but is great for the common cold and one commentator mentioned his hemorrhoids where much better after playing at Pax.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Okay...after reading this thread and many others, I have to write a bit of a PSA.

STOP GENERALIZING "HYPE"

Nearly every single thread I read where people get excited of ANY unreleased game, there are always a few posters who have to chime in with "don't believe the hype" or "you're just overhyped."  But the funny thing is, the content of the thread and what is actually being hyped is irrelevant to these guys.  They only care that someone is excited, and conclude that they must be "overhyped."

But don't you think there is a difference between someone that watches a cinematic trailer and starts gushing and immediately gushes about how awesome a game will be, and someone who watches a detailed video demonstrating an ingame concept and then gets excited about it?  I'll give you a hint, one of those is being "overhyped" and one is not.

Not all hype is bad.  It only gets bad when either:

A.  A game producer is somehow disingenuous and leads its consumers to believe that the game is something it isn't.  This is typically hard to tell until release, but you should always be suspicious until you see "proof."

B.  A consumer expresses irrational expectations about a game that were never promised by a game developer.

If either of those are true, then the person in question is "overhyped" and you can call them out to your heart's content.  But if those two aren't true, then the person is just "hyped" or "excited."

And to be honest, I don't see A or B happening with most GW2 fans (there are exceptions though, I'm sure).  Think about it, most GW2 fans are excited about things that they actually saw demonstrated IN GAME, not just a cleverly created trailer, not just words on a page...actually IN GAME...and some players even got to play said game.  GW2 fans also have several testimonials from folks that played the game and confirm the "hype."

So really, I think it's "okay" to get hyped for GW2 at this point.

If you have a legitimate concern about GW2, I'm sure we would all like to hear it.  But if you're just going to say people are overhyped just "because" then don't bother.

I was geting bored too quick untill i read your comment...

I would only add one more thing: C. "hype" is to games as "movie trailers" are to movies: if you dont have some, it will sell none.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by RizelStar

Rift was and still is a good game IMO, I'd be playin it right now if it didn't have a sub. Waiting for Tera beta and GW 2 release is fustrating lol.

 

It's off topic and this is all I will say, but it really REALLY confuses me that £2.50 a week stops people from playing a game they obviously enjoy...

£2.50...

*shakes head*

I've never understood this either.  My RIFT sub fee comes to $3.25 per week.  I can't get by with spending that for lunch and beverages in a week (not even close).  RIFT is the best money I've spent on a sub fee since Lineage.

I'm not against B2P either.  I still log in to Guild Wars sometimes and play it with my wife and son.  I do have to agree with the poster above that said a flaw in B2P is lack of accountability.  ANet had big plans for Guild Wars, but was really light on content releases up a little bit after Eye of the North when they started actively marketing GW1 players for GW2.  We finally started getting some content quests and story lines that are leads-ins to GW2.

F2P and B2P games still have a cost associated with them just like P2P.

 

 I agree, I know some people are against sub fees, but I am more than willing to pay one, if it translates to a better game, I don't care about the symantics of if it is needed or not, but if it translates to a better game with whatever company it is, then I don't mind...  I am going to say it again, and people LOVE to quote it from me or others and bring it up, but I would pay $50 a month if a game was my ULTIMATE game, not just some game, but my #1 dream come true, I wouldn't think twice about it.

MMOs, and a lot of games in general are the cheapest forms of entertainment you can get, if you break it down into hourly rates. 90 minute movie at a theater= 1 month of a sub game or more....You can play a MMO as much as you want, and a lot of people play 50-100 hours a month...I started playing games when I was younger, because I was dropping $100 a night going out, and I was going out 4-6 times a week...I started playing Diablo when it came out, then UO I think it was in that order (been a while heh...), and I was cutting my time out back 2-3 nights and saving myself money....I just don't think you can beat it...I guess free TV stations...I still don't want to pay for something I think sucks, but then I wouldn't even play something I disliked if it was free.

Originally posted by marinrider

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by RizelStar

 

I've never understood this either.  My RIFT sub fee comes to $3.25 per week.  I can't get by with spending that for lunch and beverages in a week (not even close).  RIFT is the best money I've spent on a sub fee since Lineage.

I'm not against B2P either.  I still log in to Guild Wars sometimes and play it with my wife and son.  I do have to agree with the poster above that said a flaw in B2P is lack of accountability.  ANet had big plans for Guild Wars, but was really light on content releases up a little bit after Eye of the North when they started actively marketing GW1 players for GW2.  We finally started getting some content quests and story lines that are leads-ins to GW2.

F2P and B2P games still have a cost associated with them just like P2P.

 

 And I've never understood why anytime someone has a complaint or a problem with paying a sub, the people that see no problem with it always make it about being able to afford or not afford it. I have been paying for 2 of everything for over 5 years now and I have never viewed the cost of box and sub as a problem because I have trouble affording it. But now that there is a choice, other than to not play at all, and a team saying that they want to prove that the sub fee is not a cecessary cost as others have made us all beleive, then I am willing to give them a shot to prove it. 

As far as Rift being the best money spent, I can say I strongly disagree with that statement since I bought 3 copies and none of the three of us that tried the game made it past the first month.  At least it was only $180 down the drain but you won't see me in the Rifts forums crying because it broke me, the game was just shitty and wasn't worth more invetment of time or money as far as the three of us were concerened. I am not against P2P exactly because I have had no problems with them in the past aside form the fact that no games released in the last 6 or so years have been worth it, I am more against summing all the people with a problem with the P2P model as broke, or to cheap to make a rational decision on what their money is worth. 

Your rant doesnt really relate to what he said at all.  First off, he said its the best money HE ever spent. Not the best money anyone could spend. And the initial quote was talking about how the guy said he would still play it if there was no sub.  You need to really calm down. People have different opinions than you, its not the end of the world.

Actually it was related to what he said. Specifically when the second sentence was about ways he can get by on it and not being able to get the same value on his lunches. Since Rift was used as the example I produced a counter opinion instead of just saying he was wrong and I was right like most people seem to do. It wasn't a rant exactly, just a thought since this seems to be the common thought when regarding those that don't like sub fees.  the rest of what I said was just to elaborate on what I meant so..... yeah. My responce was calm and I never said that people shouldn't have different opinions so maybe you need to calm down? As to the end of the world I just think you are being melodramatic. I never shot down his opinion, only said I strongly disagreed with his assesment. Good day.  Maybe it wasn't clear that I was addressing the 2 that were distinctly talking about the price and not playing I dont know.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Proson

 Lots of people had played Age of Conan...

Guild Wars 2 is maybe on of the least played games with such big hype. I know atleast Age of Conan had a vert big Closed Beta that ran for over 6-8 months that had the full game in it (not just a few zones or battlegrounds to test only this and that, allthough they had that aswell) with lots of people playing it. And the hype for AoC was pretty insane and we all know how that ended up.

 

I remember AoC getting a lot of attention but I also remember it getting as much bad 'hype' as it did good... the battle then was between the AoC fans and the WAR fans for a long time though and a lot of the negatives on both side were dimissed by their respective fans as 'hate'. To people paying attention though it was no surprise how AoC 'ended up'.

I guess what I am saying is that there was no shortage of bad views on AoC pre-launch. It wasn't a 'hype' of excitement in general, it was the hype of arguing. You could even say that that period (as well as Darkfall's long term epic flame wars) that pretty much changed the culture around here in alot of bad ways... but thats off the point.

GW2 has, I feel, a genuine hype of player excitement going on. Not generated by hyperbole or false claims from the industry, but the appeal of what has been actually been seen by the customers. Even the nay sayers can't find serious objections to argue over...

This next week will be a pivitol point I think, with all the info thats gonna come.

You are right that Age of Conan had some negative hype aswell before launch, and GW2 seems to be much more positive so far, most of the negative hype for AoC didnt start until after they had alot of players in Beta though.

 Its kinda hard to find stuff to complain about when almost no one has played the game besides on cons, all the hype from GW2 is based mostly on what the developers say and show in videos, and the little they show off at Cons. Playing something on a con can't be compared at all to playing the full game in beta/live for hours every day.

If GW2 had a large closed beta with no NDA im sure we would be seeing alot more negative attention towards it. Thats just the way it is though, not everyone can like everything so there will always be people saying negative things about any MMO no matter how great it is.

Originally posted by Proson

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Proson

 Lots of people had played Age of Conan...

Guild Wars 2 is maybe on of the least played games with such big hype. I know atleast Age of Conan had a vert big Closed Beta that ran for over 6-8 months that had the full game in it (not just a few zones or battlegrounds to test only this and that, allthough they had that aswell) with lots of people playing it. And the hype for AoC was pretty insane and we all know how that ended up.

 

I remember AoC getting a lot of attention but I also remember it getting as much bad 'hype' as it did good... the battle then was between the AoC fans and the WAR fans for a long time though and a lot of the negatives on both side were dimissed by their respective fans as 'hate'. To people paying attention though it was no surprise how AoC 'ended up'.

I guess what I am saying is that there was no shortage of bad views on AoC pre-launch. It wasn't a 'hype' of excitement in general, it was the hype of arguing. You could even say that that period (as well as Darkfall's long term epic flame wars) that pretty much changed the culture around here in alot of bad ways... but thats off the point.

GW2 has, I feel, a genuine hype of player excitement going on. Not generated by hyperbole or false claims from the industry, but the appeal of what has been actually been seen by the customers. Even the nay sayers can't find serious objections to argue over...

This next week will be a pivitol point I think, with all the info thats gonna come.

 

You are right that Age of Conan had some negative hype aswell before launch, and GW2 seems to be much more positive so far, most of the negative hype for AoC didnt start until after they had alot of players in Beta though.

 Its kinda hard to find stuff to complain about when almost no one has played the game besides on cons, all the hype from GW2 is based mostly on what the developers say and show in videos, and the little they show off at Cons. Playing something on a con can't be compared at all to playing the full game in beta/live for hours every day.

If GW2 had a large closed beta with no NDA im sure we would be seeing alot more negative attention towards it. Thats just the way it is though, not everyone can like everything so there will always be people saying negative things about any MMO no matter how great it is.

I agree, thats why this week will be so pivitol, it's the start of where the game actually properly steps into the public arena in a way that ANet cannot control the response.

Interesting times :)