Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by Seero

Sounds like you're tired of MMO's in general. Some of us are not. TERA is AMAZING and will win a duel with GW2 eveytime, 43% of the time.

Thanks for reading.

They just seem like their life is over because they dont have a MMO to play. LMAO

Probably bored with EvE after 9 years.

Funny how that works...

EvE has always been a niche game to begin with. Not that it's a Sandbox game, but that you really do NOT have an avatar to call your own other than a cheap little picture for years. Plus, only have space combat in a spread-sheet style combat system isn't really what many people enjoy.

Some of us have enjoyed EvE for the complex aspects EvE had to offer, but even those get tiring after awhile. It's not that funny, or shocking for that matter.

It's also funny to see how people can over-hype themselves into believing a product is absolutely "amazing", and then a month later talk about how crap it was hehe. I guess that's just the ups & downs of such a diluted market?

Originally posted by BadSpock

Anyone ever stop and think that people stayed with the "old" games for longer because

A) there was far less variety, hell at one point you really had two options - EQ or UO.

B) the genre was so much smaller pre-WoW that you had a release every year to couple of years, where as now it seems like a new MMO comes out every 3-4 months.

Long story short, there is a lot more competition.

This is an argument that comes up a lot, the whole "people only played those older games longer because there wasn't as much competition".

It rather misses the mark, for at least two key reasons:

1. People had the option to not play any of them at all. Whether there's 5 options or 50 makes absolutely no difference. If none of them are enjoyable enough to someone to continue playing for even a few months, nevermind several years, they aren't going to be playing them.  It's not like MMOs are a compulsory activity.

2. Newer MMORPGs have cropped up over time. Yet now, even with tons of competition on the market and many new MMOS they could go to, many of the people who started in those older MMOs continue to play them and have no intention of leaving until they pull the plug. There are people in Anarchy Online, DAoC, EQ1, UO and so forth who are there 'til they bring the servers down, and they have absolutely zero interest in any other MMO on the market, then or now.

Ultimately, the reason people stick with older MMOs, and continue to in many cases, has nothing to do with how many options there were "back then". They've continued to play them because they enjoy doing so. In no small part, a reason for that is because the older MMOS were designed as on-going and lasting experiences. They were not all about getting to level cap and end-game raiding was not considered "the main reason to play a MMO" as so many argue these days.

I also think that the subscription model is going to be a thing of the past - there is simply too much competition, too many new games too often for a lot of people to commit to more than a few months in a single game.

This is another common argument I see - blaming the shortcomings of the games on their payment model. It's been proven time and again, and continues to be proven, that if people find a game enjoyable enough, they will happily pay a box fee as well as a monthly sub fee.

The problem of retention past 3 months has nothing to do with subscriptions. It has to do with the games not being designed to keep them entertained much longer than that. Not enough MMOS are being designed to keep many people playing for the long haul. Almost every new MMO is following this pattern of "get the player to level cap as fast as possible". In every case, it's ending up the same way. People are burning through the games and leaving to move on to the next MMO, where they'll repeat the same process.

The era of the multi-year MMO subscription retention is over - as long as you can retain enough to keep the lights on I don't think we'll ever see another WoW.

As the sole or majority payment method? Probably. I don't think subs are going away entirely, though. They still have their place. Most people I see making that prediction are either pushing the F2P model for their own benefit, or they don't really understand either payment method enough to realize that each still has its place. Or of course, they simply like the idea of playing a game for free.

Originally posted by remyburke

I can't help but agree completely with the OP. I mean, every one of his statements begins in BOLD light BLUE!

It's hypnotic.

I try my best, best, best, est, est, est.....;)!

[Mod Edit]

You know what is probably/most likely actually going to happen with Tera?

It's going to release. Lots of people are probably going to buy it. Many will stay and play for a long time. Many will like it at first and then stop playing after a little while. Many will play until another game comes out they want to play.

Some people will not buy it at all.

The same is true, has been true, and will continue to be true for every video game every made.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by Seero

Sounds like you're tired of MMO's in general. Some of us are not. TERA is AMAZING and will win a duel with GW2 eveytime, 43% of the time.

Thanks for reading.

They just seem like their life is over because they dont have a MMO to play. LMAO

Probably bored with EvE after 9 years.

Funny how that works...

EvE has always been a niche game to begin with. Not that it's a Sandbox game, but that you really do NOT have an avatar to call your own other than a cheap little picture for years. Plus, only have space combat in a spread-sheet style combat system isn't really what many people enjoy.

Some of us have enjoyed EvE for the complex aspects EvE had to offer, but even those get tiring after awhile. It's not that funny, or shocking for that matter.

 

It's also funny to see how people can over-hype themselves into believing a product is absolutely "amazing", and then a month later talk about how crap it was hehe. I guess that's just the ups & downs of such a diluted market?

Everything has an evolution. Sometimes companies make bad decisions or run out of good ideas. Is it the player's fault that a company can't release content which stimulates the player any further?

hehe it's all crap hehe because humans get bored of doing the same shit over and over for long periods of time. 

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by BadSpock

Anyone ever stop and think that people stayed with the "old" games for longer because

A) there was far less variety, hell at one point you really had two options - EQ or UO.

B) the genre was so much smaller pre-WoW that you had a release every year to couple of years, where as now it seems like a new MMO comes out every 3-4 months.

Long story short, there is a lot more competition.

This is an argument that comes up a lot, the whole "people only played those older games longer because there wasn't as much competition".

It rather misses the mark, for at least two key reasons:

1. People had the option to not play any of them at all. Whether there's 5 options or 50 makes absolutely no difference. If none of them are enjoyable enough to someone to continue playing for even a few months, nevermind several years, they aren't going to be playing them.

2. Newer MMORPGs have cropped up over time. Yet now, even with tons of competition on the market and many new MMOS they could go to, many of the people who started in those older MMOs continue to play them and have no intention of leaving until they pull the plug. There are people in Anarchy Online, DAoC, EQ1, UO and so forth who are there 'til they bring the servers down, and they have absolutely zero interest in any other MMO on the market, then or now.

Ultimately, the reason people stick with older MMOs, and continue to in many cases, has nothing to do with how many options there were "back then". They've continued to play them because they enjoy doing so. In no small part, a reason for that is because the older MMOS were designed as on-going and lasting experiences. They were not all about getting to level cap and end-game raiding was not considered "the main reason to play a MMO" as so many argue these days.

I also think that the subscription model is going to be a thing of the past - there is simply too much competition, too many new games too often for a lot of people to commit to more than a few months in a single game.

This is another common argument I see - blaming the shortcomings of the games on their payment model. It's been proven time and again, and continues to be proven, that if people find a game enjoyable enough, they will happily pay a box fee as well as a monthly sub fee.

The problem of retention past 3 months has nothing to do with subscriptions. It has to do with the games not being designed to keep them entertained much longer than that. Not enough MMOS are being designed to keep many people playing for the long haul. Almost every new MMO is following this pattern of "get the player to level cap as fast as possible". In every case, it's ending up the same way. People are burning through the games and leaving to move on to the next MMO, where they'll repeat the same process.

The era of the multi-year MMO subscription retention is over - as long as you can retain enough to keep the lights on I don't think we'll ever see another WoW.

As the sole or majority payment method? Probably. I don't think subs are going away entirely, though. They still have their place. Most people I see making that prediction are either pushing the F2P model for their own benefit, or they don't really understand either payment method enough to realize that each still has its place. Or of course, they simply like the idea of playing a game for free.

 

QFE :)

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

your previous posts because you're trolling, and you refuse to see any other position other than your own.

Stop trolling this thread

pot calling kettle black.

You know what is probably/most likely actually going to happen with Tera?

It's going to release. Lots of people are probably going to buy it. Many will stay and play for a long time. Many will like it at first and then stop playing after a little while. Many will play until another game comes out they want to play.

Some people will not buy it at all.

The same is true, has been true, and will continue to be true for every video game every made.

You just reiterated my original post.

ie: A small minority will continue to play past 3months, a medium portion will leave after a new game comes out, and a small portion will never touch the product.

Why are you seemingly argueing FOR my point when you obviously are trying so hard to run against it?

My problem, and the overall reason why I started this thread, was to stem the tide of people claiming it's going to be the next Jesus Cometh product that SWTOR, Rift, and Aion were supposed to be. Not to mention what people "want" GW2 to be.

A dose of healthy critisism never destroyed a product, but made future products better.

OP, please don't use capslock for every other word, it doesn't read very pleasent. As for TERA, I really, really enjoyed the time I played in the CBT. Although I feel the combat needs to be a little more skillbased (hitboxes are fairly huge if you ask me) it's a breath of fresh air and it opens up a lot of possibilties gameplay-wise that I'm just very excited about.

And of course the graphics are kind of amazing, I felt really immersed in the world and I hadnt had that for a long time. The world is an actual world again, loved that. The biggest downside for me (and that's saying a lot I think) was the area chat on the pvp server - if that's the community I have to look forward to... well that's gonna be a shame

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by BadSpock
 

This is an argument that comes up a lot, the whole "people only played those older games longer because there wasn't as much competition".

It rather misses the mark, for at least two key reasons:

1. People had the option to not play any of them at all. Whether there's 5 options or 50 makes absolutely no difference. If none of them are enjoyable enough to someone to continue playing for even a few months, nevermind several years, they aren't going to be playing them.

2. Newer MMORPGs have cropped up over time. Yet now, even with tons of competition on the market and many new MMOS they could go to, many of the people who started in those older MMOs continue to play them and have no intention of leaving until they pull the plug. There are people in Anarchy Online, DAoC, EQ1, UO and so forth who are there 'til they bring the servers down, and they have absolutely zero interest in any other MMO on the market, then or now.

Ultimately, the reason people stick with older MMOs, and continue to in many cases, has nothing to do with how many options there were "back then". They've continued to play them because they enjoy doing so. In no small part, a reason for that is because the older MMOS were designed as on-going and lasting experiences. They were not all about getting to level cap and end-game raiding was not considered "the main reason to play a MMO" as so many argue these days.

This is another common argument I see - blaming the shortcomings of the games on their payment model. It's been proven time and again, and continues to be proven, that if people find a game enjoyable enough, they will happily pay a box fee as well as a monthly sub fee.

The problem of retention past 3 months has nothing to do with subscriptions. It has to do with the games not being designed to keep them entertained much longer than that. Not enough MMOS are being designed to keep many people playing for the long haul. Almost every new MMO is following this pattern of "get the player to level cap as fast as possible". In every case, it's ending up the same way. People are burning through the games and leaving to move on to the next MMO, where they'll repeat the same process.

As the sole or majority payment method? Probably. I don't think subs are going away entirely, though. They still have their place. Most people I see making that prediction are either pushing the F2P model for their own benefit, or they don't really understand either payment method enough to realize that each still has its place. Or of course, they simply like the idea of playing a game for free.

QFE :)

I actually agree with you, but that doesn't mean anything is going to change and what I said it not right.

Yes, it is sad for those of us who remember MMOs that were something... more, something special.

I still have hope though that eventually MMOs will move back to where they should have been all along.

Hint - it's not EQ1 and it's not EvE.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by Seero

Sounds like you're tired of MMO's in general. Some of us are not. TERA is AMAZING and will win a duel with GW2 eveytime, 43% of the time.

Thanks for reading.

They just seem like their life is over because they dont have a MMO to play. LMAO

Probably bored with EvE after 9 years.

Funny how that works...

I made it to almost six years in EVE, before I finally called it when Incursions launched.  Almost six years of still being a member of SWA and never grouping (or leaving High Sec) once in all that time.  Around 43 million SP in that time, and my own fleets of battleships and lord only knows what else at my various bases.  But it was a good run, and I don't regret any of it.  WoW is the only other game that even comes close to that time frame (seven years plus at this point), and 8 level 85's. 

I just wish I could find another game that would be as entertaining, over the long term as those two have been. 

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

You just reiterated my original post.

ie: A small minority will continue to play past 3months, a medium portion will leave after a new game comes out, and a small portion will never touch the product.

Why are you seemingly argueing FOR my point when you obviously are trying so hard to run against it?

My problem, and the overall reason why I started this thread, was to stem the tide of people claiming it's going to be the next Jesus Cometh product that SWTOR, Rift, and Aion were supposed to be. Not to mention what people "want" GW2 to be.

A dose of healthy critisism never destroyed a product, but made future products better.

No, what you are doing is trying to convince other people and yourself that they are wrong and you are right and that you are more wise and have a better understanding of this genre and if they just... listened to you and people like you they'd be so much happier.

I mean, obviously the simpletons don't know what they are missing right?

I used to be like that... you can see I've been on this site for a very long time and have been playing MMOs for a lot longer than most people.

I'd rather have 10 fan boi posts with people super excited for a new game (that will most likely disappoint them) then 1 Fadedbomb or other "veteran" trying to convice people they shouldn't be enjoying what they enjoy.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Why won't you fight with me ;/? I wanna play, too.

Okay well it might be the same old same old in some aspects but I still enjoy this game a lot and I didnt tire by playing it both in KCBT, KOBT and EU"CBT" which is a somewhat good sign I'd say yet its not a perceft game but you cant deny it does the things it claims to do good actually good, graphics and combat.

Originally posted by Wraithone

I made it to almost six years in EVE, before I finally called it when Incursions launched.  Almost six years of still being a member of SWA and never grouping (or leaving High Sec) once in all that time.  Around 43 million SP in that time, and my own fleets of battleships and lord only knows what else at my various bases.  But it was a good run, and I don't regret any of it.  WoW is the only other game that even comes close to that time frame (seven years plus at this point), and 8 level 85's. 

I just wish I could find another game that would be as entertaining, over the long term as those two have been. 

Yeah, I played UO for many years before brief runs with FFXI, SWG, E&B before playing WoW on and off for over 8 years.

I really wish I could have UO back as well as classic WoW with little bits and pieces of the quality of life improvements they made over BC/Wrath/Cata without all the steps backwards (in my own humble opinion, of course)

Originally posted by Keshanberk

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Why won't you fight with me ;/? I wanna play, too.

We can fight, if ya want to!?

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

You just reiterated my original post.

ie: A small minority will continue to play past 3months, a medium portion will leave after a new game comes out, and a small portion will never touch the product.

Why are you seemingly argueing FOR my point when you obviously are trying so hard to run against it?

My problem, and the overall reason why I started this thread, was to stem the tide of people claiming it's going to be the next Jesus Cometh product that SWTOR, Rift, and Aion were supposed to be. Not to mention what people "want" GW2 to be.

A dose of healthy critisism never destroyed a product, but made future products better.

[Mod Edit]

 

I see what you did there.

Me playing MMOs longer than most people is fact - not trying to imply that because of that I have a better understanding of the genre.

And even if I did, it doesn't matter because people will like what they want to like and I, unlike some people, am totally ok with that.

[Mod Edit]

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

You just reiterated my original post.

ie: A small minority will continue to play past 3months, a medium portion will leave after a new game comes out, and a small portion will never touch the product.

Why are you seemingly argueing FOR my point when you obviously are trying so hard to run against it?

My problem, and the overall reason why I started this thread, was to stem the tide of people claiming it's going to be the next Jesus Cometh product that SWTOR, Rift, and Aion were supposed to be. Not to mention what people "want" GW2 to be.

A dose of healthy critisism never destroyed a product, but made future products better.

No, what you are doing is trying to convince other people and yourself that they are wrong and you are right and that you are more wise and have a better understanding of this genre and if they just... listened to you and people like you they'd be so much happier.

I mean, obviously the simpletons don't know what they are missing right?

I used to be like that... you can see I've been on this site for a very long time and have been playing MMOs for a lot longer than most people.

I'd rather have 10 fan boi posts with people super excited for a new game (that will most likely disappoint them) then 1 Fadedbomb or other "veteran" trying to convice people they shouldn't be enjoying what they enjoy.

 

I see what you did there.

Me playing MMOs longer than most people is fact - not trying to imply that because of that I have a better understanding of the genre.

And even if I did, it doesn't matter because people will like what they want to like and I, unlike some people, am totally ok with that.

But I do rather dislike these kinds of posts where they can be summed up as "listen to me guys, just follow me I'll show you why you are so dumb."

 

No, no, thats exactly what it implied, if not, why mention it in the first place?

You want your "veteran" status to carry weight for your argument that "people will like what they like" because that is what you took away from "playing MMOs longer than most people".

You are arguing the same exact position in the exact same way as the person you are trying to argue with, its a conundrum for any reader really.

Originally posted by NBlitz

I haven't read any outrageous claims from people who have played it at higher levels (and definitely for more than 3 months, mind you). Making the game sound like something it's not.

TERA is a niche game.

I don't see why there are so many people circling the title like a bunch of vultures, praying for it to flop. Most of those folks haven't even paid for a damn thing and played it past its first month (unlike TOR). Major schadenfreude?

OP just seems like a good ol hater, finding a loophole to make an excuse out of bashing an asian game with the label of same ol lame ol piece of garbage argument.  Of course the loophole is bashing it as being another WoW cookie cutter.

As for me, I also haven't played Tera, but haven't heard all that horrible criticism about the game since some time.  I have read that people were leaving K-Tera in big chunks, before BlueHole updated the next expansion after going into service.  Since then K-Tera has been silent, but not dead, and definitely a niche game.

By watching the vids, the closest comparison I can make of this game, is that it seems very similar to Monster Hunter Frontier, albeit more MMO feel exists in Tera compared to MHF.  MHF was lobby based, and Tera actually has a persistent world. 

The reason I bring up Monster Hunter Frontier as a prime example is also due to the fact that MHF was a very niche oritented game.  At one point, MHF was the most popular online game in Japan. 

When the Korean version was released I paid for subscription and played it for 6months.  The game was definitely not for everyone, and Monster Hunter Frontier was not noobie-friendly kind of game.  The higher level Dragons and monsters you went after had harder difficulty, mainly in damage output.  One certain hit would kill players instantly, or usually, even with the best crafted gear in game, 2-3 hits from the hardest monsters meant, death.  This less user-friendly game mechanic really killed the game's appeal in general. 

I would assume the same kind of appeal will affect Tera, although it seems the learning and difficulty curve, and the punishment and reward on Tera are much more lenient than Monster Hunter Frontier. 

What I want to point out of all this is that almost noone ever criticized Monster Hunter Frontier as being a bad game.  Besides the instance roaming with 3 other players for gathering crafting materials from dragons and monsters.  There was pretty much nothing else to the game.  It was a niche game that appealed to only few and eventually the servers shut down not even 2 years into service.

Tera might not be a bad game, but it may be the so called, "not my cup of tea." type of game.  Either way, Tera will retain users that it appeals and this is no different for any other MMO. 

A good comparison would be SWTOR at the moment.  People know how flawed that game is.  Alot of people who were testing since cbt and still playing up till this point are staying with it in hopes it will be better with the next update.  But does that mean it's a good game?  No, SWTOR is not a good game, but it retains users who are fans of the Star Wars IP.  

In the end, everyone to each his/her own.   Tera will be no exception.  WoW just happened to be exposed with great advertising and released at a time when the MMO genre was becoming widespread. 

And to the OP who's defending himself from the guy who points out how biased the you sound.  Really dude?  PlanetSide 2?  You're clearly showing favoritism for a game that's not even out, all because the developers might not succumb to the SoE?  Yeah right man, seeing SoE's past history, you sure are quick to dismiss the likelyhood of PlanetSide 2 becoming a complete trash with SoE backing it.  Tell me how your analogy isn't biased and a constructive criticism.  Because it isn't.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by BadSpock
 

Me playing MMOs longer than most people is fact - not trying to imply that because of that I have a better understanding of the genre.

And even if I did, it doesn't matter because people will like what they want to like and I, unlike some people, am totally ok with that.

No, no, thats exactly what it implied, if not, why mention it in the first place?

You want your "veteran" status to carry weight for your argument that "people will like what they like" because that is what you took away from "playing MMOs longer than most people".

You are arguing the same exact position in the exact same way as the person you are trying to argue with, its a conundrum for any reader really.

I'm sorry you see it that way but it simply isn't true.

Maybe you should re-read the OP and take special note of the aggresive language, use of capitalization, and other clear signs of demeanor and intent.

So much drama for something that is suposed to be fun.

A lot of angry people in the mmo world. And for some reason, you only see them on forums and is obviously just a minority :-)