I agree with the OP AND those that say it's bad game design.  Now was not the time to WoW clone.  But it is also game design.  They took WoW and made it "WoW'ier".  They took some planets that I was really looking forward too and bogged them down with incessant mind-numbingly boring quest stacking.  The same quests for each planet, just insert different NPC's...somebody has always lost something , somebody has always run off/gotten lost, so-and-so has taken this and I/we want it back...blah, blah, blah.  I find myself spacing through the convo's because they are all the same.  Can you even imagine how independent developers would have LOVED to get heir hands on an IP like this from a creative standpoint?   I would have expected this type of a lazy effort from Cryptic or Funcom but not BioWare.

My biggest fear however is that it's eventual failure will mean the end of the IP from an MMO standpoint, which is said because I was really looking for ward to playiing a smuggler that actually smuggled something, or a bounty hunter that actually hunted bounties, or a trooper that actually, well, "trooped" for lack of a better word.

Originally posted by Spiider

??? You blame testers for not pointing out that game is bad in it's essence??? And not those who designed and implemented it???

That's like blaming customers for not noticing earlier that new drink tastes like a cat in a blender and not blaming the guy who put a cat in a blender and then bottled it.

Great point.  I was one of the testers and you can only point out so much before you realize that it's the game design itself.  Take your example.  You can put the cat in the blender, or the toaster, or the microwave it doesn't matter, the problem is not the pesentation.  It's the cat.

Originally posted by ChicagoCub

I agree with the OP AND those that say it's bad game design.  Now was not the time to WoW clone.  But it is also game design.  They took WoW and made it "WoW'ier".  They took some planets that I was really looking forward too and bogged them down with incessant mind-numbingly boring quest stacking.  The same quests for each planet, just insert different NPC's...somebody has always lost something , somebody has always run off/gotten lost, so-and-so has taken this and I/we want it back...blah, blah, blah.  I find myself spacing through the convo's because they are all the same.  Can you even imagine how independent developers would have LOVED to get heir hands on an IP like this from a creative standpoint?   I would have expected this type of a lazy effort from Cryptic or Funcom but not BioWare.

My biggest fear however is that it's eventual failure will mean the end of the IP from an MMO standpoint, which is said because I was really looking for ward to playiing a smuggler that actually smuggled something, or a bounty hunter that actually hunted bounties, or a trooper that actually, well, "trooped" for lack of a better word.

You are spot on here man.. With all the things they could have done with an IP like this. When I think of STAR WARS I think of space.. I grew up in the 80s with the first movies... and they Were AWSOME. Sadly the following 3 were as bad as this game...

They could have done so much but instead they did a Ground game copy of World of Warcfat its really really sad...

I mean why not make a space ship RAIDS... Take out a Deathstar etc.. they could have made so much Innovation but instead... I dont have words for the stupidity that is BIOWARE/EA.....

Smuggling.. bounty hunting they could have keept the player base doing things amongst themselves for years.. Instead they made Level to max start the mouse WHEEL.. and instanced BATTLEGROUNDS OMG..

lol someone has to take the blame tho, esp on the amount of $$$ that was spend:p

 

p/s: maybe i went overboard abit by blaming the testers....

Heheh you did, you did. But I was a beta tester as well and I did point out many times that this game does not feel like an mmo but feels like an online single player game. And many did say that this game will not bring anything new to mmo markets. Yet we were all screamed at by fanbois. I will only spend so much of my energy as a tester before I give up. It is not my money or my company, I did my part by stating my opinion. It ends there. It is up to mmo designers and people who pay the bill to react to feedback.

I'll repeat what I said during testing: I give this game 1 year before it goes f2p. Before fanbois jump all over me I need to write in big fat letters IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

I agree. It makes me wonder how WH40K is going to do. Two factions, leveling, gear, and that's like 2014.

Originally posted by Zaltark

Im still wondering where all the money went.

Same here. The cutscenes are OKAY, but nothing else is even great. I'm underwhelmed.

Originally posted by Benthon

I agree. It makes me wonder how WH40K is going to do. Two factions, leveling, gear, and that's like 2014.

Isn't it debatable at this point if WH40K will even get made? Didn't THQ basically put a halt to making it or at least is saying its future has not been determined yet?

Doesn't seem like THQ is long for this world anyways at this point.

Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss

Originally posted by Zaltark

Im still wondering where all the money went.

Same here. The cutscenes are OKAY, but nothing else is even great. I'm underwhelmed.

People forget that big companies are black holes for money. An indie gaming company can operate with 10% of the cost of a big one and still deliver something excellent. Any big company, not just in gaming, has around 70-80% of their staff doing NOTHING productive. That is ZERO work, NADA, ZILCH. Middle management, HR, upper management, legal department, advisors, reviewers, marketing... And there goes "your" money. No wonder games cost like banking internal projects nowdays. And also look the same.

I know for a fact that EA spends more money on marketing of some games than on making them. Music videos, events, famous or semi-famous actors who do voices, cinematic cutscenes. It all costs money but does not make a game. And in the whole process the games are neglected. No wonder each new game copies an old one. Even WOW was nor original when it came out, there were scores of games doing it all before.

This is why I support indie crews as much as I can. Even when I'm not thrilled by the game I would spend 20$ on supporting them rather than investing 80$ in a big name game.I look at it as an investment in the future.

Back to the point, the money was spent on 80% of people who do nothing productive. This is why game looks like only 20% done (again imho only)

Originally posted by Bunks

Hopefully, the WOW template will die along with this game.

 

Long live the next game template. Which one it will be still remains to be seen. TSW? Gw2? Archeage....who knows but until these giant milk cow MMO's stop making cash, investors will still force game developers to make them, bad or not.

THIS

Now that the "WoW" ride is over, I can't wait to see what AAA developers start ACTUALLY creating! :D

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Bunks

Hopefully, the WOW template will die along with this game.

 

Long live the next game template. Which one it will be still remains to be seen. TSW? Gw2? Archeage....who knows but until these giant milk cow MMO's stop making cash, investors will still force game developers to make them, bad or not.

THIS

 

Now that the "WoW" ride is over, I can't wait to see what AAA developers start ACTUALLY creating! :D

Yeah people hate WoW so much and try and turn every game they play into WoW. This is the same shit you guys tried to pull in Rift and failed there and now the content hogs are trying wreck another game.

I predict most of the complaints that come out of GW2 or Archage are features that WoW has. If you do not think GW2 is going to get rip[ped to shreds in the end game when ArenaNET made the decision not to have instanced raiding. There is no end game content in that game on the pve side.

The "wow ride" works because the themepark crowd out numbers the doom sayers and you guys have yet to realize this. Go find a niche game and stay away from the themeparks.

TOR is good GAME, that could have been a GREAT mmorpg. I think TOR has the best leveling system that has ever been introduced. On the other hand, levels in a mmorpg is old news. TOR just doesn't have anything to do outside of combat. The space mini game, while not bad, just, is what it is and doesn't add anything to the game really, kinda feels tacked on. Personally, i refuse to run dailies and pvp grind for gear. I have already explored every planet, collected all datacrons, and have an almost complete codex, not much left to do.

I posted this already. Since TOR has devs that worked on SWG. They should have emulated the core systems from the SWG pre-cu era and mixed it with the personal story content that Bioware is known for. Had one server type that had everyone in that one cluster, with a free roam space game, and the only VO in the whole game should have been for your personal story.

The game has all these cantina's that are dead. You can't really craft anyhting of worth. I have yet to buy one thing off the GTN. You can't place anything in your ship, and the most simplest, you can't sit down but in one spot, one chair on your ship.

I guess, i could keep going on and on. Bioware should have incorporated as much sandbox as they have thempark and just blurred the lines between the two. I can honestly say, that at this time right before the early access, all i could think about was getting into playing this game. Now that i am in it, i can see that a mmorpg like Archeage, is where mmorpg's should be heading. I will keep buying my time cards and keep waiting for new content to come out for now i guess. Kinda hurts when you're such a huge SW fanatic and had so much hope.

Originally posted by musicmann

 I think TOR has the best leveling system that has ever been introduced.. 

I don't get this. Not that I have any problems with how leveling goes in this game, but how is it different or better in this game compared to others? Pretty much feels and plays the same to me.