Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

Originally posted by aleos

i can promise i will continue to bitch, moan, complain, whine, QQ, and tell it how it is. its more constructive than "If you don't like it don't play it."

/flex

 

Does that make you part of the solution, or part of  the problem?

 

It's a quote from a response Sanya gave the DAoC community back in the day.

Her perception of the internet gaming community basically boils down to us all being a bunch of "...basement dwelling trogs...", so any perceived altruism you see in her article should be taken with a grain of salt.

"But, hey, I’ll give you some new information – the marketing girl and I both thought you were hot. Holding that opinion was especially disconcerting for me because after all the back and forth over your banning, I’d totally pictured you as a basement dwelling trog. But hot where hot is due. So there you go." - Sanya Weathers

 http://eatingbees.brokentoys.org/2010/10/13/yes-i-saw-the-louse-blog/

Originally posted by BartDaCat

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

Originally posted by aleos

i can promise i will continue to bitch, moan, complain, whine, QQ, and tell it how it is. its more constructive than "If you don't like it don't play it."

/flex

 

Does that make you part of the solution, or part of  the problem?

 

It's a quote from a response Sanya gave the DAoC community back in the day.

Her perception of the internet gaming community basically boils down to us all being a bunch of "...basement dwelling trogs...", so any perceived altruism you see in her article should be taken with a grain of salt.

"But, hey, I’ll give you some new information – the marketing girl and I both thought you were hot. Holding that opinion was especially disconcerting for me because after all the back and forth over your banning, I’d totally pictured you as a basement dwelling trog. But hot where hot is due. So there you go." - Sanya Weathers

 http://eatingbees.brokentoys.org/2010/10/13/yes-i-saw-the-louse-blog/

 

 

Sayna has always been a very comical/tongue in cheek poster.

"I do not do/like/approve of this thing, therefore no one else should." Uh... go away. 

Couldn't have said it better.

garv it hink thats what sanya was saying in here post sometimes you have to listen to them soemtimes it sbest not to depending on what the qq is about you have ot be able to understand whatt he blog is saying

The problem is the VM bully and drown out any other voice. The forum moderators let this happen, and the forums usually only have one side that frequents the forum. The side that is doing the bullying.

So basically the article/rant translates into: "You bunch of minority no-nothings should just shut the hell up and take what you're given because the game developers know what's best for you.

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

Any dev that does anything will find they have their own VM.  If they follow the rules, it's wrong.  If they break the rules, it's wrong.  No matter how much they do it's either too much, not enough, or both.

 

The reason is, these people are bored silly.  They've been following the genre for a decade now.  They've made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs, they've climbed the mounts of Azeroth, they've done thousands if not millions of FedEx missions.  They've seen the genre grow from 2D sprites to half-naked hi-poly elvens.  They've played game after game after game, to the point where they all seem to blur together as some sort of bad recurring dream.

 

But more than anything, they're starting to realize one thing.  The cake is a lie.  In the end, all the games, all the achievement, all the effort amount to nothing more than a large waste of time.  They don't like this.

 

They have grand ideas on how a game could be perfect.  Anyone shaping a game in any even a slightly different fashion needs to be educated on their epiphany.  They feel it their duty to speak out, loudly if needed.

 

Developers shouldn't be angry at these people.  It's not their fault.  The industry has failed them.  The "magic" of first-love with an MMORPG cannot be recreated.

 

After a thousand iterations, each new game is just another "La Petite Mort" with little if any satisfaction.  They want the "magic" to come back, if only for a few moments.

This reminds me of an example I am often refering to when debating with the VM on these boards, it's about the fact that some of the most memorable experiences of freedom I ever had were experienced while driving my very first pontiac sunbird.  It's so much more about how fresh an experience is.  Truth be told I feel for those who may have reached the point you speak about in your reply it's sad that if these people have evolved beyond what is being offered they can't simply find something else they enjoy.

Originally posted by Golelorn

The problem is the VM bully and drown out any other voice. The forum moderators let this happen, and the forums usually only have one side that frequents the forum. The side that is doing the bullying.

 

Shiver me timbers - gotta watch out for them forum bullys. Just hand 'em your opportunity to express your opinion at the door and skitter by.

News flash - If you've been a "hardcore member" of a MMO forum since 2003 with 651(+) posts and you're discussing the opinions of a MMO forum community manager surrounding the pros and cons of methods to handle different stereotypes of angry customers..... and you resonate with those stereotypes strongly enough that your mind references being bullied as a child, then my friend, I heartily proclaim that you too are a member of the Vocal Minority.

<Cyberdeck7> Welcome to the guild Golelorn! I put some armor in the bank for you!

Originally posted by Hatefull

I agree with Sonya here.  There has been more than one instance where I was busy playing a game, and the vocal whineority (who ususally spend more time on the boards than actually playing) cried up a storm until something that was working just fine for the majority was changed.  It can be a bit annoying.  SWG was famous for listening to the minorty of whiners and where did it get them? yeah, dead.

DAoC, Lineage 2, etc etc still plugging along ignoring everyone they may not post the numbers they did in their prime, but they are still very much alive.

Bottom line;  The vocal mionority does way more harm than good in my opinion.

If only the people at Mythic, including Sonya had listened to the vocal minority she decries here perhaps DAOC wouldn't be a dead shell of what was arguably once one of the best PVP MMO's.

In this particular case, I think the minority had a much better handle on how the game should have been developed and this post serves to show how out of touch she and the other folks at Mythic really were.

Originally posted by Cyberdeck7

Originally posted by Golelorn

The problem is the VM bully and drown out any other voice. The forum moderators let this happen, and the forums usually only have one side that frequents the forum. The side that is doing the bullying.

 

Shiver me timbers - gotta watch out for them forum bullys. Just hand 'em your opportunity to express your opinion at the door and skitter by.

News flash - If you've been a "hardcore member" of a MMO forum since 2003 with 651(+) posts and you're discussing the opinions of a MMO forum community manager surrounding the pros and cons of methods to handle different stereotypes of angry customers..... and you resonate with those stereotypes strongly enough that your mind references being bullied as a child, then my friend, I heartily proclaim that you too are a member of the Vocal Minority.

Welcome to the guild Golelorn! I put some armor in the bank for you!

 

LOL!

Well said, and thanks. I especially like the part about "Man up, Devs."

It would be nice if MMOGs came with a clear mission statement to the players, telling us what kind of game it is, what the devs intend, and what it won't be, and having enough vision and heart to stick to it.

;)

It's Very hard to take advice from veteran MMO players because most game companys have a solid group of very educated people whom they trust.

I have played or wasted a great many years on certain MMOs but when I see a bad feature I get vocal about it. it's called arm chair development.

I could cite the many years I watched game developers go down that road and warned them of the outcome but I get ignored and my post get obliterated by flames and accusation of being a troll.

For Me MMOs are dead, jaded I know. but fans or vets of other MMOs can't change developers decisions about a bad feature simply because they have a plan that was given to them and they won't risk job to rebel against corporate bottom lines.

It's good to see passion still though. even if it's misguided or downright vile. it means people are clamoring for fun changes to their favorite MMO and wont back down.

Actually, she made some good points....but regardless the message I get from this is, "our game is being hurt by trolls, please stop."  Makes me wonder moreso about the state of the game.

If the vocal minority was not vocal, what would the community be?

A community that just took what was handed to them, whatever it was?

A community that would not give feedback about a feature or a change in the development process?

I could see why from a developer point of view it may be nice. But usually the vocal minority is correct about its views.

Developers: If there is a huge outcry about some paradim shift in your development then choose to not listen to it at your peril. I could cite SWG or DAOC here for some of the changes they forcefed their populace that either hurt the growth of the game or sped its downfall.

Is the vocal minority always right? No. But when enough of that vocal minority all inputs about the same topic, it is generally a major issue and lots of thought should go into deloping against the wishes of the vocal minority.

When I think of the VM on this site, this usually comes to mind.

Originally posted in article

 They know their stuff.

 

This statement alone makes your article come across as just wrong. The truth is the majority of the vocal minority are made up of people with no real clue how game development works and are spoilt brats wanting their instant wins right now.

Are people really equating what she's talking about to developers completely ignoring the concerns of legitimate problems within their game? How dense can you be? I'm especially surprised to see such a reaction out of some clearly eloquent people. For someone very smart, this shouldn't have gone so far over your head.

afnh this blog has nothing to do with dom its just a blog about every mmo on the market

Boy, this is a delicate issue far as I'm concerned. There are certainly times the minority is simply unrealistic in their concerns or what they deem to be an issue.

Then there are other times they're simply ahead of the curve. There have been more than a few times I've seen the concern of the vocal minority be ignored and eventually end up being something screamed by the majority. Which at that point can become rather problematic especially if it wasn't taken remotely serious or looked into beforehand.

Kind of a case by case scenario from what I've seen over the years.

wicked yea thats true